List Mgmt. The Fringe

[Pykie]

Such a disappointing year, but whats more disappointing is a fair core of the side are actually having outstanding seasons. Thompson, Ziebell, Thomas, Cunnington, Harvey, Mullett have all made big strides this year.

What has been the major problem of the side is the 12-22 players failing to backup the form of some of our better players. For the first time since the Laidley era, I think I've looked at the side at times, and seen a pretty ordinary smattering of players around the edges that reeks more of list clogger than potential top 4 side.

3 years ago, these fringe players were the likes of Ziebell, Cunnington, Bastinac etc Kids that were quite evidently big talents and a huge part of the future makeup of the side. Now I'm not so sure.

That fringe has also taken a bit of a battering form wise. Adams has been better the last few weeks, but had a VERY ordinary first half of the season. The likes of Firrito and McMahon find themselves in the VFL. Harper has taken a huge step backwards, in a year people thought we might have a 20+ possession goal a game winger, Wright quite simply is a a fairly limited, slow, flanker. We've seen the banishment of Liam Anthony to the VFL, and the debut of Will Sierakowski

We actively recruited guys in that 20-23 zone, in Jacobs, Gysberts and Hine. Whilst they have been promising in some regard (I still think Jacobs will be a good player once he matures) the need for more defence in the midfield, means we are playing a kid like Hine, at a MAJOR detriment to the ball winning ability of the side.

MacMillan is much maligned on here, whilst he does have some pretty ordinary moments, there's parts of his game that give me hope, he is one of the few guys that I've seen that has the ability to smash in and effect a contest when the game is in the balance.

Atley has regressed from a top 5 player, to a best 22.

Alot of waffling so far, but my point being, the depth of this list, especially the midfield, has taken a pretty bad hit in the space of 12 months imo. We have faced some home truths in some regards, and some players are pretty clearly treading water atm.

Harper
Sierakowski
Anthony
Gysberts
Hine
Wright
Jacobs
Firrito
McMahon
Gibson
MacMillan

That's an amazing amount of "rotting wood" thats surfaced since christmas imo.

It's going to be a very interesting offseason.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

We have faced some home truths in some regards, and some players are pretty clearly treading water atm.

Harper
Sierakowski
Anthony
Gysberts
Hine
Wright
Jacobs
Firrito
McMahon
MacMillan

That's an amazing amount of "rotting wood" thats surfaced since christmas imo.

It's going to be a very interesting offseason.

Bolded are those that are not going to help.

I don't rate Jacobs, he doesn't provide any more than what we already have.

Harper needs to learn to find the oval shaped red thing.

Macmillan does some great things, and then others that make you want to punch a steel girder.

Wright has played 16 different spots, and is dreadfully slow.

Hine has the kicking ability of a drunk Ethiopian.

 

[B4Bear]

How do you discard Gysberts, when he hasn't pulled a boot on for us is beyond me?

 

[Pykie]

Bolded are those that are not going to help.

I don't rate Jacobs, he doesn't provide any more than what we already have.

Harper needs to learn to find the oval shaped red thing.

Macmillan does some great things, and then others that make you want to punch a steel girder.

Wright has played 16 different spots, and is dreadfully slow.

Hine has the kicking ability of a drunk Ethiopian.

That's 10 players that we can identify as "pretty ordinary" AFL footballers at this stage.

The problem being, some of these players are in the best 12-22 players of the senior side.


I'm not advocating a clean out, anything drastic, but it's pretty evident, the depth of the list is still some ways off imo, we need to get creative in the offseason, either at the trade table, free agency, or bring in a couple of class mature age recruits imo.

 

[Only Forwards]

Harper - Really needs to get his arse into gear in the twos and demand it
Sierakowski - likely to be gone
Anthony - Likely to be gone
Gysberts - Should give him a debut in the next three
Hine - Needs cleaner disposal
Wright - Will come good
Jacobs - Needs to persist in Spitta's absense
Firrito - Thanks for you career mate you bled for the club
McMahon - Needs to find fitness and touch has the brain needs to work
Gibson - Has gotten better, has really put in, will be overtaken in time.
MacMillan - I would like to know where his natural position is. His pre season should consist of tackling.

 

[Pykie]

How do you discard Gysberts, when he hasn't pulled a boot on for us is beyond me?

I'm not "discarding" him.

I'm purely saying, what he's bringing to the club atm is absolutely nothing. He's been unable to break into a side that has had the likes of Anthony, Sierakowski, McKenzie, Harper, Hine all run through it fromthe VFL this year.

He might make it, but atm, he's definitely treading water.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

How do you discard Gysberts, when he hasn't pulled a boot on for us is beyond me?

Where on earth does he fit?

Ziebell, Swallow, Cunnington, Wells have the mid spots sewn up.

Then there is Greenwood, Jacobs.

He doesn't fit.

 

[year of the roo]

I have faith that Hine and Harper will get there. Jacobs is a toss of the coin, but I'll be patient with him.

McMahon will return and regain his best. McMillan and Gibson are fine, they are your quintessential 18th-25th best players on the list types. Some real strengths but a few weaknesses that will probably always be there.

I think Siera, LA, Spud and Wright are done. Greenwood too (why not mentioned in OP?)

I'd like to give Gys one more pre-season and a few games before passing judgement.

 

[Reginald0]

think u are way off track here
the reason we have lost a lot of games is that our top 10 players are inconsistent
Harvey goes from game winner to not getting a touch
how did the Captain go today?
adams wot a season
wells is great most of the time
goldy quite often has no influence outside of the ruck
WTF with LT!!
McMahon cant get a game

get my drift?
kicking harper and Jacobs and JMac around is irrelevant
the best and worst of these other blokes is killing us

 

[Tas]

We do not have enough class in the middle. Bastinac is still too inconsistent. We need the guys like Garner, McKenzie and Harper to come good. Atley isn't a defender's arsehole, his run off half back is good, but he makes a lot of defensive errors. I think we need to play him as a midfield sweeper, a role similar to what Heppell plays at Essendon but he has the speed and the tools to do more damage than Heppell.

We need to focus on the development of Harper, Atley, Garner, McKenzie and McDonald. Don't turn Harper into a ****ing tackling inside midfield, turn him into a blazing outside mid. He shouldn't give a shit about tackling because he is going to be so dangerous he is going to be tagged every week. WTF are we trying to do with him? We are going to **** him up like we did with Wright.

We do not take advantage of our stoppage and clearance work, we get no value out of it because other than Wells we have nobody in the middle with any potency. Gibson, Macmillan, Hine, etc... they are just crabs hitting those short distance passes or that shitty loopy handball to someone who is going to get plowed in a tackle by the opposition who do not try to tackle flat footed.

We had 21 bounces this week, 16 came from defenders, 5 from midfienders (4 from Wells) and 0 from forwards.

We have no pace in the middle, too many plodders who are not damaging offensively and are not accountable defensively. Unless we can pick up both Cooney and Daisy Thomas to go with McDonald we probably have to take a step backwards to go forwards. If we do not get the instant influx of talent we must purge the plodders and fast track Harper, Garner, Atley(in the middle), McKenzie and McDonald.

We have enough inside mids now to hold up, we need the class on the outside.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

We continue to underutilize what we have at our disposal.

 

[QueenslandRoo]

Bolded are those that are not going to help.

I don't rate Jacobs, he doesn't provide any more than what we already have.

Harper needs to learn to find the oval shaped red thing.

Macmillan does some great things, and then others that make you want to punch a steel girder.

Wright has played 16 different spots, and is dreadfully slow.

Hine has the kicking ability of a drunk Ethiopian.

You owe drunken Ethiopians an apology. They don't kick THAT badly.

 

[QueenslandRoo]

How do you discard Gysberts, when he hasn't pulled a boot on for us is beyond me?

I think he has "pulled a boot on for us". It's called the VFL and he's not been good enough to progress beyond it.

 

[themilkman888]

It is the reason why we havent rotated a heap of players through the seniors. Our depth is not close to how it is perceived on here. All players have their strengths yet struggle to fix key areas of their games which stop them from being AFL quality. It's not a case of "brad's favourites" as mentioned every week in the changes thread, it is that the VFL players aren't doing what's asked of them.

 

[tiltraise]

the depth of this list, especially the midfield, has taken a pretty bad hit in the space of 12 months imo. We have faced some home truths in some regards, and some players are pretty clearly treading water atm.

Harper
Sierakowski
Anthony
Gysberts
Hine
Wright
Jacobs
Firrito
McMahon
Gibson
MacMillan

That's an amazing amount of "rotting wood" thats surfaced since christmas imo.

It's going to be a very interesting offseason.

Not sure they are all "rotting wood" as some clearly have scope for improvement in them but I agree that fringe list is far too long.

Those without improvement should be moved on with the exception of Gibson who is a real standard setter on the track in addition to being best 22.

 

[Ohhh Errol]

Feel so flat. Issues all over the park.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

You can easily throw greenwood into that lot as well.

 

[showusyacunningt]

Harper - Will be fine. At absolute worst he develops into 15 touch, high impact HFF.
Sierakowski - Average, very average. Doesn't find it enough for a player with his tank. Disposal is generally poor when he gets it.
Anthony - Trade bait, otherwise keep on the list for another year. Good outside depth.
Gysberts - Haven't seen enough to comment.
Hine - I rate him as a defender on smalls, needs to improve with ball in hand. A lot of it is down to experience and lack of composure.
Wright - Ideally he ends up a forward with his innate goal sense. Will need to bulk up and develop a maniacal work rate to justify a spot up there.
Jacobs - Can play, coming from a long way back. Ideally needs to develop a tank and outside game as I think we have others who have him beat as an inside mid.
Firrito - Good servant. Farewell game and then gone.
McMahon - Still young enough. His best is very good, needs a big pre-season.
Gibson - Disposal has improved when in space, still struggles in high pressure games. Should still play every game next season and then it's year-by-year after that.
MacMillan - I admire his effort at times, just not sure if he's going to be best 22 once the side is fully assembled. With a fully fit list he wouldn't be in my round 1 side next season. Probably stays on the list for a while and maybe ends up at another club in 2-3 years.

I don't think we become a true contender until Ziebell and co. are our 120+ game senior players, surrounded by quality youngsters and role-players. That doesn't mean we can't be top 4 from next year onwards.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

We have enough inside mids now to hold up, we need the class on the outside.

Pretty simple really not enough outside class which can only be addressed in the short term via FA or trade.

As soon as Harvey, Wells, Bastinac are not on top the tall forward structure and LT start to unravel. Similarly Atley and Mullet get the ball deeper down back or not at all.

All about territory really.

In games like yesterday our clearances by hand or foot go straight up in the air, our outside players bomb and the forward line is clogged, miss targets and struggle to get the ball out of the backline.

Just a matter of time before we cough the ball up and they get goal side. Not if.

 

[True North]

We should trade JZ. He clearly is the problem. If we replace him with another front running spud with no ticker then we will be complete. 22 front runners without an ounce of spirit.

No point wasting his career, send him to captain Freo to a flag. We will take their softest player, maybe Hill.

 

[B4Bear]

I don't think we become a true contender until Ziebell and co. are our 120+ game senior players, surrounded by quality youngsters and role-players. That doesn't mean we can't be top 4 from next year onwards.

I thought the benchmark was 60-70 games.

Damn inflation.

 

[LB2Snake]

Do not draft or trade for any single sided players, would be a great start. The amount of time we turn the ball over by hand or foot is deplorable.

 

[Gasometer]

So how does this ^ all get fixed between Oct-March?

Seems mind numbingly painful to me.

 

[True North]

Well, Carltank are above us on the Ladder and are going to get rid of 10 players. We should be dumping 8 and offering WAY OVER the odds to secure a star. WE can afford it.

Reiwoldt
Martin
etc.

We are about 3 players and 1 coach away from being legit. If we do nothing but secure Junior Mac this off season we are destined for mediocrity.

At least we are going to get a home final this year. Not Top4 standard this year Brad said yesterday. Still a good result to finish 5-6, building on last year.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

So how does this ^ all get fixed between Oct-March?

Seems mind numbingly painful to me.

Bottom part of the 22 and fringe players should be guys that can hit a target like Mckenzie and McDonald and guys who could have an impact like Daw.

Off season we need to go for outside mids via FA and trade. Pick up small crumbing forward mature or otherwise.

Outside footskills and run is what we need to take advantage of the tall forwards. We also need to get those uncontested marks just to get the press off our grills. Also gets us some tempo football.

If we get some outside players we could also go with Bastinac to tag from time to time and actually hurt the opposition the other way.

Similarly we might be able to free push Harvey and Wells to opposite parts of the ground where their taggers probably do not want to be.

Not sure about Goldy. If Daw and Petrie play forward yes he will get a decent chop out. Doesn't do much around the ground. Possibly he should just conserve energy and only ruck in the back 2/3 rds for parts of the game or the end of quarters. He Hansen and Thommo might pick off more intercept marks. He ain't going to take many marks against opponents his own size. Guess if the opposition ruck goes to our backline he could drift through the square and force the opposition wide or be used in the middle/corridor as a one two target on our rebound.