The Association Football AFL Thread 3.0

[Art Vandelay_]

Because I don’t care what WC did after Judd retired. For me that’s where the dick measuring ends.


As for your “cherry on top” by selecting Chris Masten. The disappointing thing with trading Pick 3 is that we could have selected a much better player than Chris Masten. Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril Rioli, Harry Taylor and Alex Rance were all available.

You think it wouldn't be noticed casually wedging the most overrated player this century in there.

Never had the hamstrings to play midfield and in 11 seasons as a forward arc player managed 30+ goals just 3 times. Got a completely laughable Norm Smith medal. Gunston 17 and 4, Smith 23 and 3, Mitchell 34 touches all better performances.

His contemporaries had far better goal scoring output (30+ seasons).

LeCras - 10
Betts - 9
C.Cameron - 5
Milne - 10
Johnson - 8
Chapman - 6
Breust - 11
Thomas - 6
Gray - 5

got a reputation because he could do mercurial things, was very evasive and his speed made him elite at tackling. Rohan is good at two of those and spent most of his career being ridiculed while Rioli is lauded.

 

[RPCB]

You think it wouldn't be noticed casually wedging the most overrated player this century in there.

Never had the hamstrings to play midfield and in 11 seasons as a forward arc player managed 30+ goals just 3 times. Got a completely laughable Norm Smith medal. Gunston 17 and 4, Smith 23 and 3, Mitchell 34 touches all better performances.

His contemporaries had far better goal scoring output (30+ seasons).

LeCras - 10
Betts - 9
C.Cameron - 5
Milne - 10
Johnson - 8
Chapman - 6
Breust - 11
Thomas - 6
Gray - 5

got a reputation because he could do mercurial things, was very evasive and his speed made him elite at tackling. Rohan is good at two of those and spent most of his career being ridiculed while Rioli is lauded.

Okay then, remove Rioli. There were still much better players than Masten in that draft. He played 215 games and…… played 215 games.

This all started by measuring the Chris Judd trade and who “won” the trade. Both sets of supporters should be extremely happy with how the trade turned out. If Judd wanted to play out his career at WC, I doubt there would be a single WC supporter unhappy with that. Not every trade should be a competition between supporters. Especially the Chris Judd trade, because we are talking about Chris Judd.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Okay then, remove Rioli. There were still much better players than Masten in that draft. He played 215 games and…… played 215 games.

This all started by measuring the Chris Judd trade and who “won” the trade. Both sets of supporters should be extremely happy with how the trade turned out. If Judd wanted to play out his career at WC, I doubt there would be a single WC supporter unhappy with that. Not every trade should be a competition between supporters. Especially the Chris Judd trade, because we are talking about Chris Judd.

I think trades need to be judged in their totality to determine if they're good or bad, and I'm certain it is easier to assess West Coast's haul as a success more easily than Carlton.

Masten and Kennedy franked their end with helping them win a premiership. Tangible success Carlton didn't achieve making things more subjective than objective. I would agree the deal was one that Carlton did well out of, and there was lots more going on that prevented success at that time.

I'll give you an exaggerated example.

2017 get R1 compensation for Motlop. Use to re-acquire Ablett. With other picks swaps. On the surface a nothing trade. Motlop petered out and Ablett returned home and bowed out an injured Grand Finalist. But the pick swap netted 24 used to draft Kelly, later swapped for a swathe of picks and then even later cashed in to get Cameron. Instrumental in winning another (elusive) premiership. 5 years apart.

There may have been far better player available than Masten but if in a sliding doors moment you got 215 games out of Masten at the Blues you'd have drafted very well.

National Draft Pick #3 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Above average in fact.

 

[jod23]

You also cant play Harry Hindsight about other players being available in the draft. Nobody knows 100% which players will be great and which wont. Sure we could have taken a Rance, Danger or Taylor etc but you only rue that kinda stuff when the guy you didnt take is a dud.

Masten wasnt a dud though and was a stalwart in midfield for us for a decade and helped us win a Premiership.

We won the trade but Carlton can still be happy they got Judd.

 

[RPCB]

You also cant play Harry Hindsight about other players being available in the draft. Nobody knows 100% which players will be great and which wont. Sure we could have taken a Rance, Danger or Taylor etc but you only rue that kinda stuff when the guy you didnt take is a dud.

Masten wasnt a dud though and was a stalwart in midfield for us for a decade and helped us win a Premiership.

We won the trade but Carlton can still be happy they got Judd.

I think it’s that. Everyone was happy with the trade. WC won a flag and we got a player who did as much off-field as on-field for the club. Changed the entire culture of the club.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You also cant play Harry Hindsight about other players being available in the draft. Nobody knows 100% which players will be great and which wont. Sure we could have taken a Rance, Danger or Taylor etc but you only rue that kinda stuff when the guy you didnt take is a dud.

Masten wasnt a dud though and was a stalwart in midfield for us for a decade and helped us win a Premiership.

We won the trade but Carlton can still be happy they got Judd.

I also think you're missing the point making it about win v loss.
I think he's right to only care about the Carlton outcome.

I don't care one bit what Jordan Clark achieves from now on at Freo or that trading for Henry netted Collingwood Tom Mitchell that helped them win a flag. We've netted a 2 goal a game medium forward and a 10+ year ruckman hopefully.

 

[jod23]

Look what I think we can all agree on is that Harley Reid is quite possibly the GOAT.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

 

[DBAH0]

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Just don't watch that shit.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Australian sports media have gone the way of the US sports media. It's now just click bait and they use certain players who were always despised by opposition teams as their go to choices.

 

[RPCB]

Look what I think we can all agree on is that Harley Reid is quite possibly the GOAT.

I was thinking about how good Harley Reid will become. And then I just read a stat that North Melbourne have won only 1 of their last 27 games and it happened to be the win that took them from 18th to 17th in Round 24 last year, which has lost them a potentially generational player. Did they have enough of losing?

 

[chef]

I was thinking about how good Harley Reid will become. And then I just read a stat that North Melbourne have won only 1 of their last 27 games and it happened to be the win that took them from 18th to 17th in Round 24 last year, which has lost them a potentially generational player. Did they have enough of losing?

That one will sting a fair bit over the next decade or so.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I actually like it. Tanking never benefited anyone.
Develop a winning culture and its not as if they're getting bad players with McKercher and Duursma.

Were also reportedly offered 1 by West Coast for 2 and 3 and knocked it back.
So if anything that could be the blunder, not that they're trying to set a winning standard.

 

[RPCB]

I actually like it. Tanking never benefited anyone.
Develop a winning culture and its not as if they're getting bad players with McKercher and Duursma.

Were also reportedly offered 1 by West Coast for 2 and 3 and knocked it back.
So if anything that could be the blunder, not that they're trying to set a winning standard.

I wonder how much of that offer was just media nonsense though. Losing out on a Pick 1 in the final Round by beating a 9-13 side and then offering Pick 2 and 3 because you want Pick 1. It doesn’t make sense why you wouldn’t just tank.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I wonder how much of that offer was just media nonsense though. Losing out on a Pick 1 in the final Round by beating a 9-13 side and then offering Pick 2 and 3 because you want Pick 1. It doesn’t make sense why you wouldn’t just tank.

Think you're in the minority on this. But I've never seen my club in this position so it is hard to judge people who have.

Toast - Tanking accusers - apologies in here

www.bigfooty.com

Roast - AFL need to change the draft system next season for bottom four clubs.

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling. Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles...

www.bigfooty.com

Roast - Why tho?

They failed at failing. Truly a fitting result to the season. Can't even execute the tank correctly. I've honestly never been more bemused by the direction the club is taking or its leadership.

www.bigfooty.com

Autopsy - Positives and Negatives vs Bulldogs

Bevo gone. Simmo survives another one. There’s a once in a lifetime generational talent every year, enjoy the ride. Love you all. Simmo giving it the big ones to the media in the post game, this is unreal! Hahahahahahahahaa. Positives Cripps. Insane. TK Oscar Hewett, Long, Maric will be...

www.bigfooty.com

Can't see too many with much interest in tanking for P1.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

UnitedWarrior93 DBAH0
CG29 available for selection (VFL you'd suspect).

 

[RPCB]

Think you're in the minority on this. But I've never seen my club in this position so it is hard to judge people who have.

Toast - Tanking accusers - apologies in here

www.bigfooty.com

Roast - AFL need to change the draft system next season for bottom four clubs.

The last few weeks have been horrible. Wanting you're side to lose to obtain a pick 1 is just is a horrible feeling. Now that Eagles finally got a win to get us out of this feeling of wanting to lose the comp just really needs to change the draft system next year. And I'm saying this as Eagles...

www.bigfooty.com

Roast - Why tho?

They failed at failing. Truly a fitting result to the season. Can't even execute the tank correctly. I've honestly never been more bemused by the direction the club is taking or its leadership.

www.bigfooty.com

Autopsy - Positives and Negatives vs Bulldogs

Bevo gone. Simmo survives another one. There’s a once in a lifetime generational talent every year, enjoy the ride. Love you all. Simmo giving it the big ones to the media in the post game, this is unreal! Hahahahahahahahaa. Positives Cripps. Insane. TK Oscar Hewett, Long, Maric will be...

www.bigfooty.com

Can't see too many with much interest in tanking for P1.

And I don’t think we’ve seen many instances of teams in North Melbourne’s position right now. They’ve gone 10-88 or something like that. It’s okay to say tanking isn’t for you as a Geelong supporter but not getting Harley Reid might be irritating a lot of North supporters right now.

 

[chef]

I actually like it. Tanking never benefited anyone.
Develop a winning culture and its not as if they're getting bad players with McKercher and Duursma.

Were also reportedly offered 1 by West Coast for 2 and 3 and knocked it back.
So if anything that could be the blunder, not that they're trying to set a winning standard.

Yeah I wasn't talking about tanking, more just they win 1 game in 27 and that one game costs them Harley. Unlucky.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

And I don’t think we’ve seen many instances of teams in North Melbourne’s position right now. They’ve gone 10-88 or something like that. It’s okay to say tanking isn’t for you as a Geelong supporter but not getting Harley Reid might be irritating a lot of North supporters right now.

With Brady Rawlings picking at the draft he'd probably have not picked him anyway.

LDU, Powell, McKercher, Sheezel, Phillips (no idea why they don't play him) and Wardlaw is a good young midfield mix.
Far more concerning for North IMO than not having Reid is that they have missed finals for 7 years in a row with 4 bottom 4 finishes and still do not have an AFL capable spine, let alone brilliant AFL Level that they really should be getting.

Carlton got Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank down back as well as TDK and Pittonet in the ruck and Charlie and Harry up forward.
North have Logue (inj), Comben, Dawson, Dawson down back. Xerri in the ruck and Larkey up forward (who was on the list before the rebuild). Only 1 in that list is a star in their position, Comben and Logue look decent and the rest are either unproven or average.

7 years of high drafting and that's the spine. They have far bigger issues than having/not having Harley Reid on the list.
Tanking to get him wouldn't help them IMO.

 

[RPCB]

With Brady Rawlings picking at the draft he'd probably have not picked him anyway.

LDU, Powell, McKercher, Sheezel, Phillips (no idea why they don't play him) and Wardlaw is a good young midfield mix.
Far more concerning for North IMO than not having Reid is that they have missed finals for 7 years in a row with 4 bottom 4 finishes and still do not have an AFL capable spine, let alone brilliant AFL Level that they really should be getting.

Carlton got Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank down back as well as TDK and Pittonet in the ruck and Charlie and Harry up forward.
North have Logue (inj), Comben, Dawson, Dawson down back. Xerri in the ruck and Larkey up forward (who was on the list before the rebuild). Only 1 in that list is a star in their position, Comben and Logue look decent and the rest are either unproven or average.

7 years of high drafting and that's the spine. They have far bigger issues than having/not having Harley Reid on the list.
Tanking to get him wouldn't help them IMO.

Maybe tanking was the wrong word to use, I certainly didn’t mean to tank for the entire year. Just for that specific game. But as you said, they have bigger issues than not having Reid right now.

FYI. Plowman retired at the end of last year after managing one game for the year.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Someone said this as well in the media las day or so ...but i actually watched the Eagles game on the weekend over the bigger Lions game just to see Reid. Saw him play a half game last season for Bombers VFL and he was ridiculous ...took an absolute speccie as well.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I actually like it. Tanking never benefited anyone.
Develop a winning culture and its not as if they're getting bad players with McKercher and Duursma.

Were also reportedly offered 1 by West Coast for 2 and 3 and knocked it back.
So if anything that could be the blunder, not that they're trying to set a winning standard.

Look how long it took Melbourne to get out of the doldrums after #1 picks.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Someone said this as well in the media las day or so ...but i actually watched the Eagles game on the weekend over the bigger Lions game just to see Reid. Saw him play a half game last season for Bombers VFL and he was ridiculous ...took an absolute speccie as well.

When? I watched the whole game.

 

[RPCB]

Look how long it took Melbourne to get out of the doldrums after #1 picks.

2008 was a bit of a strange draft. Melbourne selected Jack Watts #1 and 4 of the first 7 players were from WA. Nic Nat came in at #2 and Stephen Hill at #3 who went on to have a better career than Watts. But again, they were WA boys and I doubt Melbourne were selecting someone from outside Victoria.

The following year they selected Tom Scully, who stayed for one year, at #1 and Jack Trengove at #2, and Dustin Martin went on to get selected #3 and win 3 Norm Smith’s.

It took Melbourne a long time to get out of the doldrums because they just had terrible luck with high draft picks.