The AFL reliance on sports gambling (Age Article)

[Maurice Mitchell]

I would be far more accepting of the gambling advertisements if they weren’t so misleading and fraudulent.

Where, anywhere, do they inform you that if you are consistently successful, or bet in a way that means you won’t be a long -term steady source of income for them that they will limit or ban you?

I cannot believe how easily Australians have rolled over and completely accepted this change to our betting culture.

Bookmakers once had to survive by their wits. They got good inside information, one way or another, but generally they stood up and took on all comers, including plenty as well informed as they were.

They also as a part of their licensing, had to accept bets of a minimum amount, usually in the thousands. They aren’t required to offer any service at all these days.

These pathetic companies have been given the right by our equally pathetic governments to accept custom solely from mugs.

They call themselves bookmakers, yet they aren’t required to take any risk.

Doesn’t sound like any bookmaker that I’ve heard of.

 

[WillHayward]

You must be living under a rock.
I don’t gamble but there is reason gambling forks out so much money on ads because it influences people.
Gambling destroys people marriages families just like grog and drugs.
It’s fine for it to be legal for people who seek it but it shouldn’t be rammed down our throats.

It's also just annoying and debases and erodes the pure enjoyment of the game.

Seeing some douche like Nathan "browny" brown pretending to be a "lad" like he is my "mate" and crapping on about a "good price" to "get on" a "bargain" just makes the entire experience and the sport and the game less.
It's also just flat out insulting.

 

[Macca180]

Ban gambling adverts and ban poker machines. If a team can't survive without either they don't deserve to survive.

Club would go to s**t if you ran it.

People can cry as much as they want about it, but money talks and always will.

 

[The 747]

Where, anywhere, do they inform you that if you are consistently successful, or bet in a way that means you won’t be a long -term steady source of income for them that they will limit or ban you?

Totally agree with what you posted. This bit above I always find amusing when contrasted with the posters on here who reckon they bet online and come out ahead over a long period of time. Either one or the other is true not both.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Club would go to sh*t if you ran it.

People can cry as much as they want about it, but money talks and always will.

Well as long as the clubs are right who cares about the damage it does to society.

Life was pretty good when pokies were in casinos and punting was done in a tab.

 

[TheBigHorne]

Club would go to sh*t if you ran it.

People can cry as much as they want about it, but money talks and always will.

If North can eradicate their debt and be finacially stable after getting rid of their pokies then other clubs surely would have the room to do so as well.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

From reading the article it sounds like the afl is justifying it by stating it gives then access to betting trends and whether afl players (or there associates) are betting.

Dare say the government and regulatory bodies already has that power and oversight.

Ha, they’re still running that line.

Maybe back when they made a few mil off it.

Its now in the hundreds of millions a year.

Major sports are on the fast track to being totally reliant on gambling to survive, just like horse racing is. If they’re not already.

It’s gambling content first, and a sport second.

Has anybody stopped to wonder why you can now watch every game of AFL, NRL, cricket and everything else, wherever you want, for just $25 a month? It’s not a profitable model.

It’s made profitable by one thing, gambling advertising.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Totally agree with what you posted. This bit above I always find amusing when contrasted with the posters on here who reckon they bet online and come out ahead over a long period of time. Either one or the other is true not both.

I think winning punters tend to find ways around being banned by corporates 747. It is a bit of a game of cat and mouse.

I have heard within the industry of some cases where punters who win consistently are accepted to a point where they are worth more to the corporate in price guidance than they cost in lost profits. But generally, if an account gets anywhere between about $5k to $35k in profit, depending on a number of factors and which corporate is involved it will be promptly closed. Also, and probably quite rightly, where account holders engage in any sort of sharp practice or obvious arbing they are closed.

One firm who has started advertising, Topsport, I can give a favourable mention here. They tend to have better pricing models, but if you can make a consistent profit with them they will usually limit your stakes to some sort of reasonable level for the size of the market eventually, but they will not close you down. If you bet fairly with them they will be fair with you. I think a pretty standard setup for a winning sports punter would be a Topsport account, a Betfair account, and some other corporate accounts not necessarily in their own name. As things stand if you were good enough in big enough markets you could certainly win 6 figures+ in a Topsport account, over $450k in a BF account before it is unviable, but only roughly $5-35k in most other corporates before you would be closed down. But the latter are easier to win from, by and large.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think winning punters tend to find ways around being banned by corporates 747. It is a bit of a game of cat and mouse.

I have heard within the industry of some cases where punters who win consistently are accepted to a point where they are worth more to the corporate in price guidance than they cost in lost profits. But generally, if an account gets anywhere between about $5k to $35k in profit, depending on a number of factors and which corporate is involved it will be promptly closed. Also, and probably quite rightly, where account holders engage in any sort of sharp practice or obvious arbing they are closed.

One firm who has started advertising, Topsport, I can give a favourable mention here. They tend to have better pricing models, but if you can make a consistent profit with them they will usually limit your stakes to some sort of reasonable level for the size of the market eventually, but they will not close you down. If you bet fairly with them they will be fair with you. I think a pretty standard setup for a winning sports punter would be a Topsport account, a Betfair account, and some other corporate accounts not necessarily in their own name. As things stand if you were good enough in big enough markets you could certainly win 6 figures+ in a Topsport account, over $450k in a BF account before it is unviable, but only roughly $5-35k in most other corporates before you would be closed down. But the latter are easier to win from, by and large.

TopSport has been around for years but have just started advertising more. They’re far and away the fairest bookie out there. It’s a battle for them with what they’re charged by racing bodies and the the likes of the AFL, however. A % of every bet, straight into league coffers.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It's also just annoying and debases and erodes the pure enjoyment of the game.

Seeing some douche like Nathan "browny" brown pretending to be a "lad" like he is my "mate" and crapping on about a "good price" to "get on" a "bargain" just makes the entire experience and the sport and the game less.
It's also just flat out insulting.

I agree with your post here. I will give “Browny” a small concession for actually giving punters a clue as to how you might be able to go about winning.

“Player x has had over 25 possessions in 6 of his last 7 games and is priced at $1.50 to do so here and that looks value to me. Do your homework and you will find these trends you can back….”

This is more or less the starting point for most winning punters, they study previous results, find patterns and bet where the price offered is value in terms of the pattern. Of course a winning punter is likely to consider whether this player will spend most of the game on the ball, if he is carrying an injury into the game, whether he is a good ball user and the opposition has a noted tagger, etc as well as just the instant trend, but Browny’s “words of advice” might be enough to trigger an inexperienced punter to find the right method in some cases. When I started out punting as a roughly 11-12 year old you simply could not get any sound advice that was publicly available about how you might go about winning. You would become a winner through long trial and error, if you were blessed with the capabilities to do so. I mainly had to learn by watching other dickhead losing punters and realising that whatever I did, I couldn’t do what they did.

There will never be any helping the impulsive punter to avoid losing. But at least a person prepared to do the work to develop and apply a decent method of bet selection and staking has a chance to win these days. I probably lost anything up to $50k(probably roughly 30% of a decent property qt the time,) basically all my spare money, in developing a winning method and learning to support it with a suitable lifestyle throughout my 20’s, but once a few pennies dropped the whole thing got a bit easier.

Having said all of that, it is an absolute fact that anything the corporates include in their adverts will be in their own immediate interests. And the ads do detract from the viewing experience as you say. But to be fair, all adverts do that, whether they are for gambling or fanta or BBQ shapes or some f*cking Ute/4WD thing that specialises in finding kids lost toys. “Mar-um, where the *’s that little campaigner Bon Bon?" .

 

[Struggle]

It's also just annoying and debases and erodes the pure enjoyment of the game.

Seeing some douche like Nathan "browny" brown pretending to be a "lad" like he is my "mate" and crapping on about a "good price" to "get on" a "bargain" just makes the entire experience and the sport and the game less.
It's also just flat out insulting.

The Brownlow last year was a disgrace. Every single ad break that parasite was giving odds for some upcoming bet and would give you his tip. Every single one was wrong

 

[The 747]

I agree with your post here. I will give “Browny” a small concession for actually giving punters a clue as to how you might be able to go about winning.

“Player x has had over 25 possessions in 6 of his last 7 games and is priced at $1.50 to do so here and that looks value to me. Do your homework and you will find these trends you can back….”

This is more or less the starting point for most winning punters, they study previous results, find patterns and bet where the price offered is value in terms of the pattern. Of course a winning punter is likely to consider whether this player will spend most of the game on the ball, if he is carrying an injury into the game, whether he is a good ball user and the opposition has a noted tagger, etc as well as just the instant trend, but Browny’s “words of advice” might be enough to trigger an inexperienced punter to find the right method in some cases. When I started out punting as a roughly 11-12 year old you simply could not get any sound advice that was publicly available about how you might go about winning. You would become a winner through long trial and error, if you were blessed with the capabilities to do so. I mainly had to learn by watching other dickhead losing punters and realising that whatever I did, I couldn’t do what they did.

There will never be any helping the impulsive punter to avoid losing. But at least a person prepared to do the work to develop and apply a decent method of bet selection and staking has a chance to win these days. I probably lost anything up to $50k(probably roughly 30% of a decent property qt the time,) basically all my spare money, in developing a winning method and learning to support it with a suitable lifestyle throughout my 20’s, but once a few pennies dropped the whole thing got a bit easier.

Having said all of that, it is an absolute fact that anything the corporates include in their adverts will be in their own immediate interests. And the ads do detract from the viewing experience as you say. But to be fair, all adverts do that, whether they are for gambling or fanta or BBQ shapes or some f*cking Ute/4WD thing that specialises in finding kids lost toys. “Mar-um, where the fu**’s that little campaigner Bon Bon?" .

So you bet online, over a long period of time, and you come out a winner. And they keep letting you bet. How interesting.

 

[RAPPA]

I agree - it is over saturated. However - if you’re a parent, go and be a parent. Don’t rely on the world out there sugar coating everything and facilitating a risk free society. It’s like parents expecting teachers to be their surrogate.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So you bet online, over a long period of time, and you come out a winner. And they keep letting you bet. How interesting.

There is no way they can “stop" anyone betting while they are also trying to recruit new account holders. The best they can do is stop people betting in accounts in their own name.

Do you think it is not possible for punters to win? Or do you disbelieve that corporate bookmakers close down winning accounts?

 

[Baird]

Should alcohol ads be banned as well?

Yes.

 

[Macca180]

Well as long as the clubs are right who cares about the damage it does to society.

Life was pretty good when pokies were in casinos and punting was done in a tab.

I'm not saying it's a good thing....but ....all I know is money talks and always will. Period.

It's just the way it is.

 

[The 747]

There is no way they can “stop" anyone betting while they are also trying to recruit new account holders. The best they can do is stop people betting in accounts in their own name.

Do you think it is not possible for punters to win? Or do you disbelieve that corporate bookmakers close down winning accounts?

OK, that explains it to an extent. To your second question, it is possible but people do love to delude themselves. To third I don't "disbelieve" it.

 

[GWT6]

You need to stay off those gambling sites if you don't want to see the ads..

I had a mate a few years ago who put up a Facebook rant about all these ads about mail order brides that Facebook kept putting up. I commented that it was based on search history. He deleted the post shortly after.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

Pretty cool.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I think winning punters tend to find ways around being banned by corporates 747. It is a bit of a game of cat and mouse.

I have heard within the industry of some cases where punters who win consistently are accepted to a point where they are worth more to the corporate in price guidance than they cost in lost profits. But generally, if an account gets anywhere between about $5k to $35k in profit, depending on a number of factors and which corporate is involved it will be promptly closed. Also, and probably quite rightly, where account holders engage in any sort of sharp practice or obvious arbing they are closed.

One firm who has started advertising, Topsport, I can give a favourable mention here. They tend to have better pricing models, but if you can make a consistent profit with them they will usually limit your stakes to some sort of reasonable level for the size of the market eventually, but they will not close you down. If you bet fairly with them they will be fair with you. I think a pretty standard setup for a winning sports punter would be a Topsport account, a Betfair account, and some other corporate accounts not necessarily in their own name. As things stand if you were good enough in big enough markets you could certainly win 6 figures+ in a Topsport account, over $450k in a BF account before it is unviable, but only roughly $5-35k in most other corporates before you would be closed down. But the latter are easier to win from, by and large.

I don't really understand this though, wouldn't they just bet in person or get proxies to do it for them if they are too well known? Or even have proxy accounts setup for online betting? Surely there's ways around it

 

[Power Raid]

what shouldn't happen is exposing kids to gambling or normalising gambling. ban gambling ads on all media forums including the net!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't really understand this though, wouldn't they just bet in person or get proxies to do it for them if they are too well known? Or even have proxy accounts setup for online betting? Surely there's ways around it

There are ways around it to an extent.

By the part of your post I have bolded I presume you mean at the TAB DA? Or on course if you bet on horses. On course bookies just bet on horses these days as far as I know. So if you don’t bet on horses, then it is not an option. And that leaves the TAB outlets. About 10 years ago, I used to walk in to local agencies in person and “plunge" certain footy matches early in the week before the odds and lines had corrected somewhat closer to game day. They took some pretty sizeable bets, one of which lad to a 6 figure payout, but they adapted very quickly. Severely limited stakes early in the week, adjusted odds radically with small bets, and so on. I eventually made a few decent sized plunges that lost, and gave the strategy up altogether. Ultimately they ended up with a model where it just wasn’t worth the effort. These days I think TAB are just about the least viable to bet with, worst prices, smallest staking limits etc, worst array of markets etc.

I recall the first time I ever had an account closed, it was a spread betting account in the UK, in the mid 2000’s. I rang them, infuriated and remonstrated strongly, thinking very naive thoughts like these weak pommy bastards will not get away with this rubbish. They just calmly explained l should take it as a compliment, they had arrived at the decision they couldn’t beat me. Anyway you soon learn how to deal with these things and these days it is little more than a moderate nuisance when winning accounts get closed. Without limiting profitable punters even the best bookmakers would not be able to survive because there is always someone out there better at setting prices than you are. Or better at picking their fights. Or with more inside info...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Worry about banning fast food and sugary drink advertising first, a thousand times more damaging to our society.

Or do both!

 

[Kappa]

Or do both!

You gotta pick one fight at a time, so focus on the more important one first.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You gotta pick one fight at a time, so focus on the more important one first.

Both are important & it's completely different parties who should be fixing the situation.