So How Dangerous is COVID Really?
- Thread starter Lavender Bushranger
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Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
Where the hell do these nurses work? Aged care? Palliative care/ oncology? Different if you were asking icu or ED staff
Combination of ED, icu and aged care.
Whilst it's likely that vaccination has saved alot of people (which is why we haven't been seeing actual covid fatalities), that's what would be fueling this sentiment.
We were told we would be losing a portion of our population to this virus, that didn't happen.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
It did happen just not to the predicted extent (recall early reports were 10% hospital fatality rate)
And bitching about vaccination takes a certain type of special in that we are already mandated to have flu shot (pre covid)
Vaccines, masks, washing hands, lockdowns, work from home. All would have had an effect. That protected a lot of people, but not all. Thats the effect of a large scale infectious virus.
Issue health workers are having is what is being reported isn't reflecting what they are seeing/experiencing on the floor.
Bit hard to take the statistics seriously when already palliative/end of life patients are being wrongly included in covid statistics.
We were told that we would lose a portion of our elderly population. The last big turnover we experienced apart from dying season is when we first started admistering the first vaccinations.
One of the biggest fears health workers are having is that governments are overstating the effects of the virus. Aged care is collapsing, the general health system isn't fairing much better.
This has been caused by deliberate government negligence, mostly attributed to our most recent conservative government.
The worry is that governments will use covid as a scapegoat instead of admitting to what they have done.
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
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One nurse I know has seen plenty of Covid deaths.
Are they though? We've seen heaps of this and it's always been shown that the person just doesn't understand death certificates and reporting properly.
Do they know about all the work on excess deaths?
Maybe if they trusted stats over anecdotes they'd feel better.
I know alot of nurses. Common denominator is deaths are being recorded as covid deaths when they shouldn't be.
Particularly in Aged Care, often doctors don't physically see their patients.
Statistics are useless in these situations. No one is checking up to see if they are accurate at all. Unless you actually work on the floor you honestly have no idea what's happening.
In aged care, almost every statistic is a lie
Chief
~ Shmalpha ~
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I don't know much about aged care off the top of my head. Generally I've heard about neglect and legal battles via my extended family.
However, as I said, given death stats can be difficult to gather - including cause of death - there has been extensive work on excess deaths as an indicator of Covid deaths. If anything, Covid deaths have been underreported.
There was a lot of news out about recording causes of death, with people mistakenly thinking that putting Covid anywhere in the chain meant it was reported as "a Covid death".
While I've got no experience of nurses working conditions, I've experienced huge differences in care between nurses on the same ward, between shifts and so on. For instance some seem to have their own ideas on good pain management - in opposition to the doctor, patient and other nurses - and impose this on the patient through withholding of medication.
Doctors and nurses seem to complain about each other but it seems they keep it to themselves on the job. Like any workplace I suppose some hospitals, wards, or care facilities are dysfunctional.
All this is to say, some nurses thinking Covid was over-reported as a cause of death is not totally unexpected, but is exasperating.
However, as I said, given death stats can be difficult to gather - including cause of death - there has been extensive work on excess deaths as an indicator of Covid deaths. If anything, Covid deaths have been underreported.
There was a lot of news out about recording causes of death, with people mistakenly thinking that putting Covid anywhere in the chain meant it was reported as "a Covid death".
While I've got no experience of nurses working conditions, I've experienced huge differences in care between nurses on the same ward, between shifts and so on. For instance some seem to have their own ideas on good pain management - in opposition to the doctor, patient and other nurses - and impose this on the patient through withholding of medication.
Doctors and nurses seem to complain about each other but it seems they keep it to themselves on the job. Like any workplace I suppose some hospitals, wards, or care facilities are dysfunctional.
All this is to say, some nurses thinking Covid was over-reported as a cause of death is not totally unexpected, but is exasperating.
We have had patients simply dying of old age counted as covid deaths.
If we counted vaccine deaths the same way we count covid deaths this discussion would be completely different.
The system, particularly aged care is collapsing. This is the main contributing factor to excess deaths. We have patients starving because no one is there to feed them.
Decades of deliberate government neglect has caused this. Covid is just a convenient excuse.
- Thread starter
- #1,362
I don't think it works like that.
I thought that when filling in the 'cause the death' certificate, the doctor determined what it was that caused them to die that day. So if they old and unwell and were probably going to die in a few months anyway - it was listed as COVID because it was literally COVID that killed them.
But if they died of a heart attack or a fall and they had COVID at the time, it wasn't listed as COVID. It was listed as a heart attack or a fall (ie. Head injury etc.).
Sorry people in aged care are starving to death and to cover it up they are being falsely listed as COVID deaths and everyone is in on it except a nurse you know who told you but hasn't gone to the media or anyone official?
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I know a Geriatrician who was working in a major aged care facility during COVID. They saw many deaths during that time, related to COVID, well above the usual deaths they experienced.
I simply don't believe you.
That doesn't invalidate other criticisms of the aged care system, which along with the health system in general is drastically underfunded.
It's rare for a Geriatrician to be based at a RACF. It's often difficult to find doctors/locums to attend RACFs.
In a situation where we had high need patients, we had almost no one to look after them. Doesn't take long for patients to start deteriorating, particularly if they are going long periods of time without eating/hydration and basic care/hygiene needs are not being met (patients sitting in their own excrement for long periods of time).
Conditions were (and still are) horrific for these people, as a society we had to do better. Unfortunately, the RC has shown that we would rather go backwards instead of forward.
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Alpha strain was killing upto 7% of elderly patients in Italy in March 2020 - and that's what caused the alarm.
We should be thankful that the virus mutated into a much milder forms, and not illogically imply as you have, that the whole episode was a false alarm.
And that's the strange part. Younger people are showing flu like symptoms, while older people are remaining asymptomatic.
The fact that we are having very little actual covid deaths has shown that it's been pretty much a false alarm.
Shutting ourselves away from the world meant that when people started getting infected, the mutated virus seemed to be weaker which is why it had little to no effect
I see what you did there
Data is irrelevant if it isn't accurate, particularly if you are getting any data from the aged care sector, where almost every statistic is a lie
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This is interesting. Which stats are lies and which ones are made up?
Essentially everything. When your business model depends on fraudulent statistics, you are going to lie for extra funding, aren't you?
