Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

Here are the crime board rules of engagement. Please read them.

Importantly, 'sub judice' means that a case is under consideration by the courts. 'Sub judice contempt' can occur if information is published that may be prejudicial to the court proceedings.

Don't spread baseless rumours or state as fact that which is opinion, please.

A degree of respect in all discussion across this board is expected.

Rules - Updated Crime Board Rules - READ BEFORE POSTING

General Information The BigFooty Crime board is a community that fosters discussion on current and past crimes, some which have social and media notoriety, that attracts the attention of public opinion and discussion on such matters. Please read these rules very carefully, both the Big Footy...

www.bigfooty.com

The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[31550]

I guess if this is what happened, he could have gone back for a car or ute. He wasn't living too far away.

That's pretty risky. Plenty of people around at that time of day, plus trail cameras, CCTV etc. Nobody reported seeing him go home and swap vehicles. He wasn't even apprehended for a couple of weeks. I just think it's a big stretch to assume a motorbike is involved. Why would he even be out on a motorbike that time of morning if, as is also suggested, he was out partying the night before? Wouldn't he have taken his ute to the party and not his motorbike?

 

[Lady O]

That's pretty risky. Plenty of people around at that time of day, plus trail cameras, CCTV etc. Nobody reported seeing him go home and swap vehicles. He wasn't even apprehended for a couple of weeks. I just think it's a big stretch to assume a motorbike is involved. Why would he even be out on a motorbike that time of morning if, as is also suggested, he was out partying the night before? Wouldn't he have taken his ute to the party and not his motorbike?

Not really, why take a work vehicle with all your tools and leave it where someone can steal them, when you have a flash motor bike?

 

[Underarrest_]

There was a comment early on from one of the Police saying something like there were a few seconds/frames of CCTV that led them to POS. When he was asked if it was a hit and run, he denied it, but when asked if a motorcycle was involved he seemed to avoid answering. I might be reading too much into it, but it seems to me that the he was hinting that the evidence pointed to deliberately hitting her with a motorbike.

I watched the police media conference again and he definitely didn’t rule a bike or car in or out (but as you said, he did rule out hit and run.) Do we know what time the police started searching after SM was reported as missing to police?

 

[Run n Spread]

Sad case this. I think it's reasonable to assume she is deceased. There is no other viable alternative.
Ad to POS no idea what evidence they have. No doubt phone but that of itself won't be enough. Maybe he spoke and it was picked up on surveillance.
Just thinking other cases of conviction without body.
Donald McKay thou blood was found at the scene.
Kelli Lane her lies were used against her (thou strange case)
Dawson (again lies and cover up)
SM basically just disappeared off the face of the earth. Without a body the 4 elements are hard to prove. You'd need evidence based on follow up action.
Hard to know as no idea what the evidence is. Still entitled to a presumption of innocence. Appears as well police are still investigating

 

[Run n Spread]

There are a number of alternatives which the defence could put forward as reasonable doubt:

• Ran away to start a new life (find a witness or CCTV which shows someone resembling SM)
• Did not die at the scene as alleged (she ran away from scene and subsequently accidentally fell down a mineshaft)
• Did not die at the hands of alleged (e.g. phone ping at 5pm may indicate still alive), but killed later by person or persons unknown
• Died at the scene but not killed by POS (find evidence of any other person at the scene at the same time, or introduce doubt that there were only two people present at that time - e.g. phone pings of any other phone in that location where the presence of the owner has not been verified. OR, postulate that the real killer did not carry a phone).

Prosecution need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that not only is SM dead, but died at the hands of POS and as a result of deliberate action. Otherwise, it's not murder.

1. Anything possible I guess thou you'd need evidence of affair debt etc. Otherwise simply not really possible.
2 3 and 4 are alternatives that raise reasonable doubt.
The phone ping thing is a red herring. You can be tracked to an exact location. You'd need both at the same spot + smart watch monitor stopping or phones moving together.
But than you'd have found the body.
Just baffling.

 

[31550]

The phone ping thing is a red herring.

Why? (I am talking about the 5pm Buninyong tower ping). It was mentioned by police originally, then after the arrest of POS they seem to have gone silent about it. Isn't it inconvenient that it might not fit their narrative, especially when they seem to be relying on other phone ping data to place POS at the alleged scene of the crime. Whatever scenario is put forward by police must account for this 5pm ping or there may be reasonable doubt.

 

[Run n Spread]

Why? (I am talking about the 5pm Buninyong tower ping). It was mentioned by police originally, then after the arrest of POS they seem to have gone silent about it. Isn't it inconvenient that it might not fit their narrative, especially when they seem to be relying on other phone ping data to place POS at the alleged scene of the crime. Whatever scenario is put forward by police must account for this 5pm ping or there may be reasonable doubt.

I meant the phone doesn't just ping you can be tracked to an exact spot. I don't think police would want people to know thou so they say it pings.
I guess pings are if the phone is turned on and off quickly it will register to a tower before the apps can open.
Or you lose reception??
I remember when this was a missing person case. First thing they would do would be to trace the route????

 

[Run n Spread]

Better explanation = open up Google maps and search your suburb. The blue dot actually even has me in a building the exact one nearly down to the room.
Surely a phone carrier can extract that data and trace her and his exact movements on the day.
If reception cuts out in the bush so will connection to a tower. When phone back on so will the location.
Imo police would have their phones together than hers is off . But that doesn't necessarily prove death occurred.
Just a theory thou

 

[31550]

I meant the phone doesn't just ping you can be tracked to an exact spot. I don't think police would want people to know thou so they say it pings.
I guess pings are if the phone is turned on and off quickly it will register to a tower before the apps can open.
Or you lose reception??
I remember when this was a missing person case. First thing they would do would be to trace the route????

The phone pings intermittently when it connects with a tower. It needs to connect with at least two towers simultaneously for the location to be accurately determined. SM's phone has been widely reported in the media as having pinged the Buninyong tower at 5pm. Police have suggested her watch / phone data places her on the trail in Canadian around 8am, and that she was murdered there and then. How do they explain the 5pm ping? This needs to fit their narrative.

 

[AvantGardener]

Sad case this. I think it's reasonable to assume she is deceased. There is no other viable alternative.
Ad to POS no idea what evidence they have. No doubt phone but that of itself won't be enough. Maybe he spoke and it was picked up on surveillance.
Just thinking other cases of conviction without body.
Donald McKay thou blood was found at the scene.
Kelli Lane her lies were used against her (thou strange case)
Dawson (again lies and cover up)
SM basically just disappeared off the face of the earth. Without a body the 4 elements are hard to prove. You'd need evidence based on follow up action.
Hard to know as no idea what the evidence is. Still entitled to a presumption of innocence. Appears as well police are still investigating

Nobody has been convicted of the murder of Donald McKay.

 

[jason_recliner]

Better explanation = open up Google maps and search your suburb. The blue dot actually even has me in a building the exact one nearly down to the room.
Surely a phone carrier can extract that data and trace her and his exact movements on the day.
If reception cuts out in the bush so will connection to a tower. When phone back on so will the location.
Imo police would have their phones together than hers is off . But that doesn't necessarily prove death occurred.
Just a theory thou

That's probably your wifi location rather than coming from the mobile network. Mobile is accurate to a few metres where coverage is strong.

 

[Run n Spread]

The phone pings intermittently when it connects with a tower. It needs to connect with at least two towers simultaneously for the location to be accurately determined. SM's phone has been widely reported in the media as having pinged the Buninyong tower at 5pm. Police have suggested her watch / phone data places her on the trail in Canadian around 8am, and that she was murdered there and then. How do they explain the 5pm ping? This needs to fit their narrative.

Thanks makes sense. Don't know tbh.
They will alledge that it was to move the body. Thou why turn it on if you've already had it off to avoid detection?
Let's say receptions patchy and POS is only in the area???
A lot still to play out. Have to assess the evidence but it appears the police are still gathering and applied for 24 weeks?
POS may also have nothing to do with any of it and police have gone off in the wrong direction.

 

[Run n Spread]

Nobody has been convicted of the murder of Donald McKay.

Wasn't the hitman convicted? Just not who ordered it?

 

[Underarrest_]

Why? (I am talking about the 5pm Buninyong tower ping). It was mentioned by police originally, then after the arrest of POS they seem to have gone silent about it. Isn't it inconvenient that it might not fit their narrative, especially when they seem to be relying on other phone ping data to place POS at the alleged scene of the crime. Whatever scenario is put forward by police must account for this 5pm ping or there may be reasonable doubt.

Has the 5pm ping been confirmed by police? Only asking because I’ve only heard a friend of the family mention that in an interview on a radio show.

 

[31550]

Wasn't the hitman convicted? Just not who ordered it?

Bazley was convicted of murder.


To clarify. Bazley was convicted of murder of others. He was convicted of conspiracy to murder Mackay.

 

[31550]

Has the 5pm ping been confirmed by police?

Not confirmed. Not denied. Widely reported. It was discussed early on in a TV doco involving Charlie Bezzina. Bezzina appeared to accept the 5pm ping as fact at that time.

 

[faible]

That's probably your wifi location rather than coming from the mobile network. Mobile is accurate to a few metres where coverage is strong.

Turn Location Services and GPS on or off on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch - Apple Support

Learn how to turn Location Services and GPS on or off for individual apps.

support.apple.com

Location Services uses GPS and Bluetooth (where they're available), along with crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspots and cellular towers to determine the approximate location of your device.

Think the really accurate positioning usually comes from GPS, with cell tower being more approximate depending on the number of towers.

From memory the 5pm ping was from a single tower so they'd have a radius it could be within but that's about all.

 

[AvantGardener]

Bazley was convicted of murder.

Incorrect. Bazley was sentenced to 9 years for Conspiracy to Murder McKay.

 

[AvantGardener]

Wasn't the hitman convicted? Just not who ordered it?

No. There was a conspiracy to murder charge that stuck. But no murder charge.

 

[jason_recliner]

Turn Location Services and GPS on or off on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch - Apple Support

Learn how to turn Location Services and GPS on or off for individual apps.

support.apple.com

Think the really accurate positioning usually comes from GPS, with cell tower being more approximate depending on the number of towers.

From memory the 5pm ping was from a single tower so they'd have a radius it could be within but that's about all.

Yes, meant mobile GPS. That is very accurate when good coverage.

 

[31550]

Incorrect. Bazley was sentenced to 9 years for Conspiracy to Murder McKay.

Yes. But he was convicted of murder of others. I have editied my post accordingly.

 

[31550]

Yes, meant mobile GPS. That is very accurate when good coverage.

Yes but it isn't recorded by the telephone carriers or ISPs.

 

[AvantGardener]

Yes. But he was convicted of murder of others. I have editied my post accordingly.

Totally irrelevant.

 

[jason_recliner]

Yes but it isn't recorded by the telephone carriers or ISPs.

Obviously.

 

[Underarrest_]

Turn Location Services and GPS on or off on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch - Apple Support

Learn how to turn Location Services and GPS on or off for individual apps.

support.apple.com

Think the really accurate positioning usually comes from GPS, with cell tower being more approximate depending on the number of towers.

From memory the 5pm ping was from a single tower so they'd have a radius it could be within but that's about all.

What would the radius be from a single tower?