Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[31550]

What would the radius be from a single tower?

Varies depending on geolocation but can be up to 10-15km. Closer in cities, Further in rural locations if there is line-of-sight. This is phone geodata, not satellite GPS positioning which we were talking about. Satellite GPS is accurate to one or two metres.

 

[Underarrest_]

Varies depending on geolocation but can be up to 10-15km. Closer in cities, Further in rural locations if there is line-of-sight. This is phone geodata, not satellite GPS positioning which we were talking about. Satellite GPS is accurate to one or two metres.

Ok so just trying to get my head around this. Could the phone have been at Mt clear when it pinged if it’s within this radius?

 

[31550]

Ok so just trying to get my head around this. Could the phone have been at Mt clear when it pinged if it’s within this radius?

I wouldn't think so.
Going by data from AusPhoneTowers, the Buninyong tower signal does not reach Mt Clear.
I am assuming we are talking about the Telstra tower marked with a blue T as being the Buninyong tower in question. If the phone was at Mt Clear it would have pinged other towers though. (If they were in operation, and we know they were, because the police allege her phone / watch pinged Mt Clear at 8am).

 

[Catch]

I agree it (starting a new life) is highly unlikely that this happened in this case, but I was providing general examples of where the lack of a body might cause difficulty for the prosecution in establishing prima facie that death had actually occurred at the time and place alleged. There are cases where people have "disappeared", and foul play was suspected, only to find later that the 'victim' arranged their own disappearance (e.g. John Darwin).

To stick a murder charge, police need to prove SM died at the scene, or at least from actions/events which occurred at the scene and at the alleged time.

The lack of a body means there is no evidence to support this, that we know of. The 5pm phone ping from Buninyong may cause problems for the police. Without the phone, and without physical evidence connecting POS to the phone, it could be theorised that SM was using her phone near Buninyong at 5pm. Police would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that it was NOT SM using her phone at this time. How can they do that, without the phone or the body?

There is probably video footage of her murder/ photos. The police would have phone intelligence of possibly POS on the phone at that time
And I wouldn't be surprise if the police are watching some other people as well.
I think there is more to this...

 

[Underarrest_]

I wouldn't think so.
Going by data from AusPhoneTowers, the Buninyong tower signal does not reach Mt Clear.
I am assuming we are talking about the Telstra tower marked with a blue T as being the Buninyong tower in question. If the phone was at Mt Clear it would have pinged other towers though. (If they were in operation, and we know they were, because the police allege her phone / watch pinged Mt Clear at 8am).

View attachment 1981970

Ok thanks. That makes sense.

 

[faible]

I wouldn't think so.
Going by data from AusPhoneTowers, the Buninyong tower signal does not reach Mt Clear.
I am assuming we are talking about the Telstra tower marked with a blue T as being the Buninyong tower in question. If the phone was at Mt Clear it would have pinged other towers though. (If they were in operation, and we know they were, because the police allege her phone / watch pinged Mt Clear at 8am).

View attachment 1981970

This matches my memory of the rough radius being discussed and that there's drink taps on the uni campus as a potential running route.

We've not have any kind of information about where they believe she was killed have we? I've not kept up with everything.

 

[BomberManU]

We've not have any kind of information about where they believe she was killed have we? I've not kept up with everything.

No, not that I'm aware of. Nothing much at all, since the arrest, apart from a couple of official searches.

 

[Underarrest_]

This matches my memory of the rough radius being discussed and that there's drink taps on the uni campus as a potential running route.

We've not have any kind of information about where they believe she was killed have we? I've not kept up with everything.

I think in the latest police press conference they said that they will allege SM was murdered at Mt Clear on the day of her disappearance.

 

[Kurve]

There is probably video footage of her murder/ photos. The police would have phone intelligence of possibly POS on the phone at that time
And I wouldn't be surprise if the police are watching some other people as well.
I think there is more to this...

There are all sorts of rumours about, video and pics are some of them and which more specific details of can't go up in here.

I think it's possible you are right that there may be a witness/es. POS may have told on himself somehow, or told others what he did.

In the circumstances, the police would probably withhold that information.

 

[31550]

No. There was a conspiracy to murder charge that stuck. But no murder charge.

For conspiracy to murder charges to stick, the court must accept prima facie that a murder took place or was going to take place. Hence 'murder' was proven in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt, even though no body was ever located in this case.

 

[Irma]

This matches my memory of the rough radius being discussed and that there's drink taps on the uni campus as a potential running route.

We've not have any kind of information about where they believe she was killed have we? I've not kept up with everything.

The Under Investigation show said that the bio-metric info on her watch/phone(?) changed at the 7km mark, and that’s where it’s believed an ‘incident’ happened. Whether that’s her actual death or not..? This was the map they showed, which also has that last known ping at Bunninyong marked, but not timestamped.

 

[AvantGardener]

For conspiracy to murder charges to stick, the court must accept prima facie that a murder took place or was going to take place. Hence 'murder' was proven in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt, even though no body was ever located in this case.

Stop doubling down and making things worse.

You even say 'was going to take place'. A murder does not need to take place for a conspiracy to murder. A person can be very much alive and someone be found guilty of conspiracy to murder them. A plan to murder that even if it isn't carried out yet is conspiracy to murder.

Murder was not proven in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[31550]

There is probably video footage of her murder/ photos. The police would have phone intelligence of possibly POS on the phone at that time
And I wouldn't be surprise if the police are watching some other people as well.
I think there is more to this...

There is probably not video footage of her murder. The police may have intelligence of POS on the phone at the time (a record of calls made or messages sent / received), but they would most likely not have the content of those messages or calls. POS was not even on the radar until two weeks after SM disappeared, after police received the phone data (tower pings). Recording of phone calls / messages requires 'full intercept' which requires a warrant, and cannot be done retrospectively.

 

[31550]

Stop doubling down and making things worse.

You even say 'was going to take place'. A murder does not need to take place for a conspiracy to murder. A person can be very much alive and someone be found guilty of conspiracy to murder them. A plan to murder that even if it isn't carried out yet is conspiracy to murder.

Murder was not proven in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt.

The Coroners Court is a court of Law. The 1984 coronial inquest concluded that "Mr Mackay died of wilfully inflicted gunshot wounds. It's believed he was murdered on the same day he disappeared."

His body was never found, but the court concluded he was murdered. People were convicted on the basis that the murder took place. They were just not convicted of murder. The discussion was around whether anyone had been convicted or not in a case where the body had not been found.

 

[AvantGardener]

The Coroners Court is a court of Law. The 1984 coronial inquest concluded that "Mr Mackay died of wilfully inflicted gunshot wounds. It's believed he was murdered on the same day he disappeared."

His body was never found, but the court concluded he was murdered. People were convicted on the basis that the murder took place. They were just not convicted of murder. The discussion was around whether anyone had been convicted or not in a case where the body had not been found.

Exactly and NOBODY has been convicted of murder in a case where the body has not been found.

That the Coroner found that had no bearing on the Bazley conspiracy case. They are two totally seperate findings.

Bazley was not convicted on the basis the murder took place. Bazley was convicted on the basis he conspired to murder. The sentencing reads "The jury's verdict involves a finding that you agreed with Tizzoni and Joseph to murder Donald Mackay for reward." Further on stats "The result of the conspiracy was the murder of Donald Mackay..." but this is not a finding saying Bazley murdered him or that it had any impact on the verdict.

 

[31550]

Exactly and NOBODY has been convicted of murder in a case where the body has not been found.

????
Keli Lane convicted of murdering daughter Tegan.
Chris Dawson convicted of murdering Lynette Dawson.
Susan Blyth Neall-Fraser convicted of murdering Bob Chappell ...
???

 

[faible]

????
Keli Lane convicted of murdering daughter Tegan.
Chris Dawson convicted of murdering Lynette Dawson.
???

Peter Falconio

 

[AvantGardener]

????
Keli Lane convicted of murdering daughter Tegan.
Chris Dawson convicted of murdering Lynette Dawson.
Susan Blyth Neall-Fraser convicted of murdering Bob Chappell ...
???

In the context of the Bazley/Mackay case........

 

[31550]

Has the 5pm ping been confirmed by police? Only asking because I’ve only heard a friend of the family mention that in an interview on a radio show.

In this video Hatt is asked about the "Buninyong ping" and answers (around the 9:40 mark).
Seems to indicate that "the ping was a thing" at least at that stage of the investigation.

 

[Underarrest_]

In this video Hatt is asked about the "Buninyong ping" and answers (around the 9:40 mark).
Seems to indicate that "the ping was a thing" at least at that stage of the investigation.

It’s interesting to watch that again and compare it to the last media conference (when Patrick was arrested,) where they say that they don’t believe they are looking for anyone else (although as been said by others, they might not be disclosing everything) and that they believe SM was murdered at the Mt Clear area on the day of her disappearance. It seems to be a big shift in that timeframe.
Noting the ping, if PO is guilty, could he have turned the phone on and off in another area to confuse the police?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

It’s interesting to watch that again and compare it to the last media conference (when Patrick was arrested,) where they say that they don’t believe they are looking for anyone else (although as been said by others, they might not be disclosing everything) and that they believe SM was murdered at the Mt Clear area on the day of her disappearance. It seems to be a big shift in that timeframe.

Or police are pulling at straws.
DEF: If you are clutching at straws or grasping at straws, you are trying unusual or extreme ideas or methods because other ideas or methods have failed.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

There is probably video footage of her murder/ photos. The police would have phone intelligence of possibly POS on the phone at that time
And I wouldn't be surprise if the police are watching some other people as well.
I think there is more to this...

Video footage of her murder? Lol

 

[Catch]

There are all sorts of rumours about, video and pics are some of them and which more specific details of can't go up in here.

I think it's possible you are right that there may be a witness/es. POS may have told on himself somehow, or told others what he did.

In the circumstances, the police would probably withhold that information.

There is probably not video footage of her murder. The police may have intelligence of POS on the phone at the time (a record of calls made or messages sent / received), but they would most likely not have the content of those messages or calls. POS was not even on the radar until two weeks after SM disappeared, after police received the phone data (tower pings). Recording of phone calls / messages requires 'full intercept' which requires a warrant, and cannot be done retrospectively.

How do you know the police haven't got video or photos when they confiscated his phone or anyone else ?

 

[Kurve]

Ballarat ....

Police allege a man was drug impaired and had broken multiple event rules when he drove into a crowd and killed a teenager at a western Victorian motor sport event last year.

The 28-year-old today faced the Ballarat Magistrates' Court for a bail application, charged with multiple offences, including dangerous driving causing the death of 18-year-old Trent DeZoete.

The charges were laid yesterday after Mr Dridan allegedly crashed a Lamborghini into a suburban Ballarat house on Friday.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05...lub-fatal-burnout-event-denied-bail/103815278

 

[31550]

How do you know the police haven't got video or photos when they confiscated his phone or anyone else ?

Unlikely to have photographed his own crime. Would be dumb. Would be even dumber to keep photos and videos for weeks after the crime. But not too dumb to hide a body where it can't be found or leave any evidence indicating where it is. No reason to assume there would be any photo or video evidence, or it would have emerged by now.