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VFL Game Day Round 12: Essendon vs Carlton, Windy Hill, Saturday 11/06/2022 @ 1:35 PM
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Would be interested to know what Menzie tbought of the game.
He seemed to struggle with the pace.
I have no feel for the difference in level between the SANFL and the VFL but didn't think it would be that different.
Not suggesting there is any cause for concern. It's just something that stood out to me.
He seemed to struggle with the pace.
I have no feel for the difference in level between the SANFL and the VFL but didn't think it would be that different.
Not suggesting there is any cause for concern. It's just something that stood out to me.
He's probably the equivalent of a 4th/5th round pick. If he was the equivalent of a second rounder nobody would pass him up.
ant555
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Like you said. Has some work to do as he can ball watch at times. When he was on a player he was solid. He did get caught out a few times due to turnovers which you can not defend. Like RBB said played a bit on Motlop in the last. Think he was out of gas at that stage.
What he did do well was judge when he could leave and make an impact at the contest.
ant555
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Was very scrappy as well so it was hard for the small forwards to position when the ball is coming in chaos style a lot of the time.
ant555
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James Stewart - really good. Played well. Took marks and showed a level of leadership on ground organizing the young blokes in the forward half. Went back very late to sure up the back 6 when we had the lead.
Nick Bryan. - Dominated the hit outs . Good around the ground with a few strong marks and a goal to seal the game. Just need to fin a bit more physical strength. Has the tools to be a really dominant ruck.
Kane Baldwin. - battled hard all day. Always makes a contest and grabbed a couple of marks. Hard to get a real line on how he is playing because of the way we deliver the footy inside 50 but he always has a crack and his second efforts are good.
Alister Lord . - first half was the best I have seen him play. Attacked the footy a bit more and provided a bit of run. Faded in the second half . Looks like a player who can at times lack confidence in what he is doing right now and needs a few solid players around him while he is learning. Playing in sides that have been really bad have not helped him development wise.
BZK. - Was great. He is certainly on the top line at VFL level. Just needs to transfer that confidence into the next level. He has very few dear in the headlight moments in the VFL and backs himself to intercept. I think he would be a handy defender in a side playing a better style of team footy.
Josh Eyre. - Played back. Had a couple of horror kick ins . Almost took two marks of the year and nearly knocked himself out with the landings. Defense was okay but he took a quarter and a bit to start reading it from the other way as far as going from playing forward to back. Should be working on punching the footy and not trying to take mark of the year for a few weeks. He has some tools to work with but I think it will be defense as his marking has not improved at all.
Brayden Ham. - Solid game playing a lot of wing. Worked the length of the ground well.
Garrett McDonagh . - Played okay but right now the thing that stops him from being more than a decent VFL player is his reaction time to what is happening in the game. He gets caught out defensively because he gets caught watching the ball and trying to predict where it may go rather than spreading the focus to ball and player in the area. He is a reasonable VFL player but he has to step up at least two levels to be any value at AFL level. Like Lord being in sides where the back half has basically been cannon fodder most of the time has not helped him.
Cody Brand . - Something is building here. He is a monster of a young man now and his confidence is coming through. He has backed himself to step up and win the footy and his defense is pretty strong now. Has a booming kick. He is one who is showing the rewards of being able to play consistent games of proper footy.
Tex Wanganeen . - quiet game for Tex but his pressure in the forward half was okay. Did not have a huge amount of tackles but he made the effort to chase hard and try and limit easy footy coming out of the forward half. Was not an easy game style for small forwards to reap the rewards with Carlton playing more of a rolling scrum with big numbers in our forward half. They also played him on a pretty short leash .
Cian McBride . - I hope they persist with him as like Brand he is really building something the more he plays. Held the second ruck down well enough and is a good defender. Dropped a couple of marks he should have taken but in general is was a decent game.
Massimo D'Ambrosio . - Was great. Attacks the ball, clean hands and good vision. You watch him and ask how was he not drafted. His second and third efforts where great and a couple of times he made errors he worked his ring off to do something to fix them. Needs to fine tune his defensive work as he can get caught out of position watching the ball and having a really attacking mindset but when he is defending he is solid and often beats his guy because he reads the ball much better. Got his ankle stomped on and had to go off and have it strapped but played out the whole game. Think he was a bit spent late but he was ultra impressive.
Alec Waterman . - was not really in the game a lot early and the main reason was the style of game with the Blues playing a big full press made it hard for lead up players to find space. Got a bit of midfield time but did not finish the game after a collision with Bryan gave him some sort of leg injury / corky .
Tom Hird . - Toms problem is he has his dads play instincts in a smaller body. He has no real small craft as such. He leads up at the footy when he should be looking to crumb it . He is not overly quick so faster defenders can burn him off. If he was 190cm he would have the skill set to make a decent high forward / wing / half back. Problem is he is 182cm.
Jye Menzie . - was not in the game a lot but made the most of what he had. His pressure was good. He is pretty speedy. With Carlton playing a lot of numbers back it was hard for the small forward tot find a lot of space.
Have to say that despite it being a bit of a rolling scrum with a few break outs we played it pretty well. Our forward pressure was good.
A couple of the VFL boys where really good.
Brad Bernacki who from memory was the Calder captain a few years back was hard at it all day playing mainly midfield.
Stefan Rasinac was also pretty good in the trenches.
Former Jets captain Billy Cootee was also pretty handy.
As Usual Atley did what he does.
I know I have been very critical of how they have set up the VFL and the lack of attention but I will say some of these young players will be good VFL players if we can hold them and build a bit of a VFL core around them.
Nick Bryan. - Dominated the hit outs . Good around the ground with a few strong marks and a goal to seal the game. Just need to fin a bit more physical strength. Has the tools to be a really dominant ruck.
Kane Baldwin. - battled hard all day. Always makes a contest and grabbed a couple of marks. Hard to get a real line on how he is playing because of the way we deliver the footy inside 50 but he always has a crack and his second efforts are good.
Alister Lord . - first half was the best I have seen him play. Attacked the footy a bit more and provided a bit of run. Faded in the second half . Looks like a player who can at times lack confidence in what he is doing right now and needs a few solid players around him while he is learning. Playing in sides that have been really bad have not helped him development wise.
BZK. - Was great. He is certainly on the top line at VFL level. Just needs to transfer that confidence into the next level. He has very few dear in the headlight moments in the VFL and backs himself to intercept. I think he would be a handy defender in a side playing a better style of team footy.
Josh Eyre. - Played back. Had a couple of horror kick ins . Almost took two marks of the year and nearly knocked himself out with the landings. Defense was okay but he took a quarter and a bit to start reading it from the other way as far as going from playing forward to back. Should be working on punching the footy and not trying to take mark of the year for a few weeks. He has some tools to work with but I think it will be defense as his marking has not improved at all.
Brayden Ham. - Solid game playing a lot of wing. Worked the length of the ground well.
Garrett McDonagh . - Played okay but right now the thing that stops him from being more than a decent VFL player is his reaction time to what is happening in the game. He gets caught out defensively because he gets caught watching the ball and trying to predict where it may go rather than spreading the focus to ball and player in the area. He is a reasonable VFL player but he has to step up at least two levels to be any value at AFL level. Like Lord being in sides where the back half has basically been cannon fodder most of the time has not helped him.
Cody Brand . - Something is building here. He is a monster of a young man now and his confidence is coming through. He has backed himself to step up and win the footy and his defense is pretty strong now. Has a booming kick. He is one who is showing the rewards of being able to play consistent games of proper footy.
Tex Wanganeen . - quiet game for Tex but his pressure in the forward half was okay. Did not have a huge amount of tackles but he made the effort to chase hard and try and limit easy footy coming out of the forward half. Was not an easy game style for small forwards to reap the rewards with Carlton playing more of a rolling scrum with big numbers in our forward half. They also played him on a pretty short leash .
Cian McBride . - I hope they persist with him as like Brand he is really building something the more he plays. Held the second ruck down well enough and is a good defender. Dropped a couple of marks he should have taken but in general is was a decent game.
Massimo D'Ambrosio . - Was great. Attacks the ball, clean hands and good vision. You watch him and ask how was he not drafted. His second and third efforts where great and a couple of times he made errors he worked his ring off to do something to fix them. Needs to fine tune his defensive work as he can get caught out of position watching the ball and having a really attacking mindset but when he is defending he is solid and often beats his guy because he reads the ball much better. Got his ankle stomped on and had to go off and have it strapped but played out the whole game. Think he was a bit spent late but he was ultra impressive.
Alec Waterman . - was not really in the game a lot early and the main reason was the style of game with the Blues playing a big full press made it hard for lead up players to find space. Got a bit of midfield time but did not finish the game after a collision with Bryan gave him some sort of leg injury / corky .
Tom Hird . - Toms problem is he has his dads play instincts in a smaller body. He has no real small craft as such. He leads up at the footy when he should be looking to crumb it . He is not overly quick so faster defenders can burn him off. If he was 190cm he would have the skill set to make a decent high forward / wing / half back. Problem is he is 182cm.
Jye Menzie . - was not in the game a lot but made the most of what he had. His pressure was good. He is pretty speedy. With Carlton playing a lot of numbers back it was hard for the small forward tot find a lot of space.
Have to say that despite it being a bit of a rolling scrum with a few break outs we played it pretty well. Our forward pressure was good.
A couple of the VFL boys where really good.
Brad Bernacki who from memory was the Calder captain a few years back was hard at it all day playing mainly midfield.
Stefan Rasinac was also pretty good in the trenches.
Former Jets captain Billy Cootee was also pretty handy.
As Usual Atley did what he does.
I know I have been very critical of how they have set up the VFL and the lack of attention but I will say some of these young players will be good VFL players if we can hold them and build a bit of a VFL core around them.
VFL Match Replay, R12: Essendon v Carlton
The Bombers and Blues clash in round 12 of the 2022 Smithy's VFL Season
51:08 Josh Eyre almost
52:30 Brand with the huge kick
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Thanks for the in depth write up. Was out yesterday so haven't seen the game.... yet
On Brand, think the position (and obviously development) he has been afforded to play will enable him to transition his VFL play to AFL level.
As you know, over the years we play (AFL) half forwards out of position in the VFL (midfield) through desperation to be competitive. Brand will play key back at AFL level and as such has been left there to develop. BZT I feel has been the same, probably didn't have the development ceiling a guy like Brand may have but still, we've seen improvement enough to justify the selection.
Far too many what if's over the years, hoping we can settle guys like Eyre (CHB? not that we need more key backs), Lord (running defender - let this kid develop there) etc.
Why I have been so critical of our VFL program over the years. That 'golden bunch' (circa 2015) in my time watching had the perfect blend of AFL and VFL players that included Dan Coghlan, Aaron Heppell, James Ferry, Sam Tagliabue, Sam Heavyside on top of very good kids who were developing into reasonable AFL players but almost dominant VFL players like NoB, Kavanagh, Browne etc. You know the generation I rated
No francis in the game?
eth-dog
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After watching the replay:
James Stewart: Was fantastic. Carlton got the match up wrong, should have had Durdin on him but doesn't mean he wasn't still very good. His hands were the strongest I've seen.
Nick Bryan: Ice in his veins. Took apart the much less experienced Mirkov both in the ruck and around the ground, and the time he took to kick the sealer was vital too.
Kaine Baldwin: Like ant555 said, hard to get a read on his game. Consistently brought the ball to ground and had a pretty touch opponent in Durdin but still manage to kick 2, the second was very important. Like how he took the forward ruck contests as well.
Alastair Lord: Also in lock step with ant on this one, his first half was the best he's played for us. Had more confidence in himself it seemed too.
Brandon Zerk-Thatcher: Great game, was strong in the air and really organized the defence well. I'd be recalling him in the seniors without a doubt, especially since St. Kilda have a very tall forward line.
Josh Eyre: Kept on flying and played on a mixture of opponents. Some of his kicking was very calm under pressure.
Brayden Ham: Is a very good VFL player. That's probably all he is but was important today.
Garrett McDonagh: Honestly didn't notice him that much. Did scrub one of his kicks but was generally good with the ball.
Cody Brand: Easily his best game for the club. Took a very dangerous Crocker and kept him really quiet, a few more weeks like this and we could see him debut sooner rather than later.
Tex Wanganeen: Didn't really notice him that much like McDonagh but liked his tackling.
Cian McBride: A very good game up against a pretty good key forward in Glass-McCasker. More than handy in the ruck as well, developing nicely.
Massimo D'Ambrosia: Probably the best VFL debut i've seen at the club. Kid is just at the level with his kicking and moving. Has to debut next week for me.
Alec Waterman: Was good early then had a corkie early-ish in the second, tried to play through it but iced after HT
Jye Menzie: Not as good as his fellow debutant but realistically only two people were. His goals were joe the goose's but he almost had goal of the day in the second.
Tom Hird: Seemed like he had more than 17 and a goal, because most of his touches were very impactful. I would have zero objections in giving him a debut soon as well.
Key difference in the game for me was our ability to kick 6 goals into the wind to their 1, Stewart was very important in that regard.
James Stewart: Was fantastic. Carlton got the match up wrong, should have had Durdin on him but doesn't mean he wasn't still very good. His hands were the strongest I've seen.
Nick Bryan: Ice in his veins. Took apart the much less experienced Mirkov both in the ruck and around the ground, and the time he took to kick the sealer was vital too.
Kaine Baldwin: Like ant555 said, hard to get a read on his game. Consistently brought the ball to ground and had a pretty touch opponent in Durdin but still manage to kick 2, the second was very important. Like how he took the forward ruck contests as well.
Alastair Lord: Also in lock step with ant on this one, his first half was the best he's played for us. Had more confidence in himself it seemed too.
Brandon Zerk-Thatcher: Great game, was strong in the air and really organized the defence well. I'd be recalling him in the seniors without a doubt, especially since St. Kilda have a very tall forward line.
Josh Eyre: Kept on flying and played on a mixture of opponents. Some of his kicking was very calm under pressure.
Brayden Ham: Is a very good VFL player. That's probably all he is but was important today.
Garrett McDonagh: Honestly didn't notice him that much. Did scrub one of his kicks but was generally good with the ball.
Cody Brand: Easily his best game for the club. Took a very dangerous Crocker and kept him really quiet, a few more weeks like this and we could see him debut sooner rather than later.
Tex Wanganeen: Didn't really notice him that much like McDonagh but liked his tackling.
Cian McBride: A very good game up against a pretty good key forward in Glass-McCasker. More than handy in the ruck as well, developing nicely.
Massimo D'Ambrosia: Probably the best VFL debut i've seen at the club. Kid is just at the level with his kicking and moving. Has to debut next week for me.
Alec Waterman: Was good early then had a corkie early-ish in the second, tried to play through it but iced after HT
Jye Menzie: Not as good as his fellow debutant but realistically only two people were. His goals were joe the goose's but he almost had goal of the day in the second.
Tom Hird: Seemed like he had more than 17 and a goal, because most of his touches were very impactful. I would have zero objections in giving him a debut soon as well.
Key difference in the game for me was our ability to kick 6 goals into the wind to their 1, Stewart was very important in that regard.
ant555
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One thing I should have mentioned was the combined marks our big blokes took between them. It made a massive difference having some marking power in front of the footy.
ant555
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Also if anyone wants to get some idea of our preferred game plan have a look at this game. It may not have been totally effective but in general we wanted to move the footy quickly.
eth-dog
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Yep. We had a clear size advantage and made sure to use that. That and they made a meal of the match ups in defence, Durdin had to go to Stewart and Kemp on Baldwin. Made a meal of it.
Came in here to say that despite the fact we've only won the 2 games, we still got closer than anyone so far to Casey somehow, who are undefeated. Only us and Box Hill were within single figures with the next closest being over 3 goals.
We are starting to get some depth (by VFL standards anyway) now that we are getting players back from injury for the seniors, plus our 2 MSD picks out there and contributing. Still light on in the midfield but some better performances going on. Can see real development in Brand and even McBride. Not sure about Eyre. Massimo should play AFL in next month. If Hind or Hepp got injured, he would be in pretty quick. Interesting to see what happens with Stewart given he played forward and we have got away (barely) lately with an inexperienced Reid together with undersized Laverde and Ridley down back in the AFL.
eth-dog
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Eyre I can see staying back for the rest of the year. Definitely behind the pair of Brand and McBride now.
Stewart I see switching with Phillips in the AFL and as such we'll see two rucks here and let Bryan get more time inside 50 as well. I think we should put Zerk back into the AFL side, with Francis coming back into the VFL forward line as well.
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Pointed out in an earlier post, but having good > very good VFL players is as important as it is in developing the AFL kids.
Casey Demons have exceptionally good VFL players like James Munro, Matt Buntine (ex AFL) whilst Box Hill as an example have guys like James Parsons (ex AFL), Damian Mascitti (VFL gun), Jordan Cunico on top of there AFL contingent.
We have been relying on Joe Atley for 18 months, the VFL kids sound like they were ok (Bernacki (25d), Rasinac (19d, 8t), Cootee (18d) which is nice to see. Just need to keep these kids and try to develop them further.
ant555
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Add to this some of the VFL listed players are improving with experience as well. There are few guys that have come into the side recently that are starting to impact as well. Bernacki , Cootee and Rasinac all looked good in the midfield on Saturday and all three have played 5 games or under. Bernacki was captain at the Cannons a few years back and Billy Cootee was captain at the Jets so they are younger leaders that we have started playing.
ant555
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Bernacki is actually 26 but he has been good since he has played. Was captain at Calder a while back. Will Golds is starting to find a bit of form since he has been back in the side as well. Cootee and Rasinac have been good. Not sure how old Rasinac is but he is reasonably young and came from Aberfeldie .
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If you could add any type of player to the VFL side, what would it be? A bigger bodied inside mid?
Edit. Quick search and Rasinac played in 2015 Cannons squad with James Peters, Bruno Laguda and our own Tom Wallis.
ant555
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Ideally you would have a couple of good workhorse midfielders no matter what AFL list profile you have. After that it depends on where your AFL list is at but you would want them to be leaders so a good leader in the back half and a good leader in the front half. Even if they are medium flanker types.
ant555
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VFL for me. He is hard at it but his skills are a bit scruffy . Very good VFL player and leader.
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