Player Watch Reef McInnes

[Apex36]

You dont need to take my word for his performances - Fly is a believer in Finns potential.
That endorsement alone merits Finn getting extended games to prove himself.

Fly is also a part of the selection committee who decided Fin isn’t currently in the 23, and did so for the majority of last year too, so this is a fairly bizarre and incredibly weak argument.

 

[sr36]

To you and I maybe. To many others they weren’t.

TBH, at the end of 2018, I didn't think he would become a mid, but not through lack of potential. I thought he was going to become Gary Ablett Sr. I was incredibly bullish on him as a forward.

 

[sam_e]

Reef is making a pretty good fist of his role that sees him having to play on some premium defenders.

How long until he is considered on a par with someone like Henry? Both are 21 years old and a little bit similar.

Keeping in mind Henry has the benefit of Cameron and Hawkins in the same forward line.

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Henry's scored 78 goals (51 games) at 1.53 p/game
Henry scored 13 goals (in first 14 games) at 0.93 p/game

Reef's scored 11 goals (in first 14 games) at 0.79 p/game and is trending nicely

 

[No SPIN]

Fly is also a part of the selection committee who decided Fin isn’t currently in the 23, and did so for the majority of last year too, so this is a fairly bizarre and incredibly weak argument.

Not really - it just makes Fly's decision difficult to understand given his public endorsement of the kid.
I would have thought that was self evident.

 

[sr36]

Not really - it just makes Fly's decision difficult to understand given his public endorsement of the kid.
I would have thought that was self evident.

Nah. Fly talks about backing in guys - that includes the senior players and not just the kids. The match committee can only back in 23 players a week.

He's backed in the senior mids and there's some bloody good justification to have done so, as they've all shown that they're bloody good AFL players.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Reef's rolled through there.

I see what you did there

 

[Rooosterboy]

Nah. Fly talks about backing in guys - that includes the senior players and not just the kids. The match committee can only back in 23 players a week.

He's backed in the senior mids and there's some bloody good justification to have done so, as they've all shown that they're bloody good AFL players.

with a flag to prove it, how quickly we forget.

 

[stormskye]

Henry's scored 78 goals (51 games) at 1.53 p/game
Henry scored 13 goals (in first 14 games) at 0.93 p/game

Reef's scored 11 goals (in first 14 games) at 0.79 p/game and is trending nicely

Henry also now has Hawkins and Cameron to play third man with.

Reef is being asked to do a lot more without anywhere near the support

 

[loki04]

Agreed. A bit stiff.
sub, sub and 37% TOG in what was meant to be a full game. He'll get plenty more opportunity. but atm it was a bit unfair. Is that setting players up for success? I'm not sure it is.

Also manning L.Neale instead of a lesser light.

 

[loki04]

Henry also now has Hawkins and Cameron to play third man with.

Reef is being asked to do a lot more without anywhere near the support

Henry also played full games majority of Reefs were as sub.

 

[Gone Critical]

thats where Fly has me puzzled - how could Finn prove himself wtih 38% TOG

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. Players awaiting to see where their potential will take them are often rated higher than what they end up being.

Unfortuantely for Finn the objective evidence is looking like maybe he isn't quite good enough. I hope he proves that wrong but he hasn't looked likely in his AFL time so far. What Finn proved with his 38% was he isnt at the level yet.

Truth is there are lots pf players through the comp who are at Finns level. 35 of the 59 taken in his National draft have played more games than he. Each time he gets a chance and doesn't take it fully means that if there is a next time he will get less time. Thats how the system works, its brutal. Look through the draft years on the Draftguru site and see that most players in Finns position fizzle. Hope he isn't one.

Reef is in a similar position but the difference is he looks more AFL when he has got a go. Personally I am much more bullish about him.

As to the VFL this is how it works to me

1 There are players who are just too good for the AFL from day 1 so never go there, think Nck D, Daisy, Pendles except for glandular, Scheezel etc

2. There are players that do a little time in the VFL but quickly move beyond that level and never go back, think Isaac Q, Ollie Henry

3. There are players who need a VFL apprenticeship but then move up and become solid AFL players for seasons on end, think Blairy

4. There are players who need the same and do a good bit of AFL time but never bed it down, thnnk Call Brown

5. There are players who need a good bit to a lot of time in the VFL and often star but never step up to the AFL level and usually only gat a few chances, a really big group that Finn is part of now

6 Players who just are not good enough at VFL level to ever get a realistic go in the AFL, play 0-10 games.

If you are in 4,5 and 6, you go like crazy in the preseason, you go like crazy in the praccy matches and this is a great start but unless you translate it quickly to the AFL chances (esp a 4th year player) you get it doesnt end up meaning anything. Hopefully Finn smashes the next chance but its likely to be pretty limited, no one at his level gets 4-6 games in a row unless they show they are up to it.

 

[Gone Critical]

Henry also now has Hawkins and Cameron to play third man with.

Reef is being asked to do a lot more without anywhere near the support

Flip side is a lot of posters were suggesting Henry wouldn't get senior games in Geelongs stacked forward line in 2023. The good young players take a spot in the 22 and cement it quickly. I am a fan of Reefs but Henry is a mile ahead of him on both performance and potential. Not a good comparison to me.

 

[sam_e]

Henry also played full games majority of Reefs were as sub.

good shout

Reef's TOG% by games played (p/season):

2022: 67, 73, 72, 62, 0, 52

2023: 38, 19, 42, 24, 78

2024: 76, 75, 75

last 4 games he's played 75% average TOG;
6 games prior he averaged 29%

 

[sr36]

Also manning L.Neale instead of a lesser light.

Mitchell was on Neale for most of it. The lesser light Finn was on was usually McCluggage...

 

[No SPIN]

Henry also played full games majority of Reefs were as sub.

And with the massive injury list at Geel in 2023 he was given the comfort of a secure spot and therefore continuity.

 

[No SPIN]

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. Players awaiting to see where their potential will take them are often rated higher than what they end up being.

Unfortuantely for Finn the objective evidence is looking like maybe he isn't quite good enough. I hope he proves that wrong but he hasn't looked likely in his AFL time so far. What Finn proved with his 38% was he isnt at the level yet.

Truth is there are lots pf players through the comp who are at Finns level. 35 of the 59 taken in his National draft have played more games than he. Each time he gets a chance and doesn't take it fully means that if there is a next time he will get less time. Thats how the system works, its brutal. Look through the draft years on the Draftguru site and see that most players in Finns position fizzle. Hope he isn't one.

Reef is in a similar position but the difference is he looks more AFL when he has got a go. Personally I am much more bullish about him.

As to the VFL this is how it works to me

1 There are players who are just too good for the AFL from day 1 so never go there, think Nck D, Daisy, Pendles except for glandular, Scheezel etc

2. There are players that do a little time in the VFL but quickly move beyond that level and never go back, think Isaac Q, Ollie Henry

3. There are players who need a VFL apprenticeship but then move up and become solid AFL players for seasons on end, think Blairy

4. There are players who need the same and do a good bit of AFL time but never bed it down, thnnk Call Brown

5. There are players who need a good bit to a lot of time in the VFL and often star but never step up to the AFL level and usually only gat a few chances, a really big group that Finn is part of now

6 Players who just are not good enough at VFL level to ever get a realistic go in the AFL, play 0-10 games.

If you are in 4,5 and 6, you go like crazy in the preseason, you go like crazy in the praccy matches and this is a great start but unless you translate it quickly to the AFL chances (esp a 4th year player) you get it doesnt end up meaning anything. Hopefully Finn smashes the next chance but its likely to be pretty limited, no one at his level gets 4-6 games in a row unless they show they are up to it.

That’s a comprehensive overview.

Per bolded - has he been given the chance to translate to AFL standard ?
And what is your definition of “translate it quickly” - how many games?
Because it’s not possible in 38% TOG.

 

[sr36]

Jordy transitioned as forward > forward/mid > mid/forward > and finally, full-time mid. That transition occurred as his aerobic fitness improved and as he learned the craft of a mid (balance btw offence & defence; positioning etc).

Not sure Reef will ever get to being a full-time mid but he will (IMO), as his career progresses and his fitness improves, spend time on ball. Another leg up on his aerobic base and I think we'll certainly see more from him ..more games, more confidence that he belongs!

You're probably right. When he debuted, Bucks was commentating and said he'll become an inside mid. I just haven't seen anything to suggest it, so will remain a skeptic until I do.

 

[Jen2310]

We'll see in time where reef ends up. I can see him splitting between forward and mid. depending on his tank in years to come. He's value up forward, but wouldn't be surprised in years to come to see him at some centre bounces and then rotate forward

 

[sr36]

That’s a comprehensive overview.

Per bolded - has he been given the chance to translate to AFL standard ?
And what is your definition of “translate it quickly” - how many games?
Because it’s not possible in 38% TOG.

There was a reason why he only got 38% game time. We wanted and needed to win. We were getting smacked in the midfield. Finn was struggling and we had a senior pro in the sub vest. We made the obvious sub. It helped to turn the game and we won.

It was a no brainer to continue the following week with that senior pro and the other ones that helped us win. It's pretty straight forward. There's no spot for him ahead of JDG, Pendles, Titch, Crisp and Nick.

He'll need to work his butt off to be at the head of the queue if a spot opens up. We're not talking about an elite talent that you shoe-horn into the team or whom has the skillset to play other roles. And we're not talking about average players that he's competing with for midfield time - an all time great of the game, a Brownlow medalist, a dual Copeland trophy winner and our two current best players.

 

[stormskye]

There was a reason why he only got 38% game time. We wanted and needed to win. We were getting smacked in the midfield. Finn was struggling and we had a senior pro in the sub vest. We made the obvious sub. It helped to turn the game and we won.

It was a no brainer to continue the following week with that senior pro and the other ones that helped us win. It's pretty straight forward. There's no spot for him ahead of JDG, Pendles, Titch, Crisp and Nick.

He'll need to work his butt off to be at the head of the queue if a spot opens up. We're not talking about an elite talent that you shoe-horn into the team or whom has the skillset to play other roles. And we're not talking about average players that he's competing with for midfield time - an all time great of the game, a Brownlow medalist, a dual Copeland trophy winner and our two current best players.

And aside from Mitchell, the others can play other roles. Macrae can’t

 

[sr36]

And aside from Mitchell, the others can play other roles. Macrae can’t

Pendles and Crisp play their best footy there too - comfortably. It's Jordy and Nick who can be stars in other roles. And frankly if you're picking a team to help develop our future midfield, you'd be playing Nick and JDG there well ahead of Finn - they're the future of our midfield. Hopefully Finn becomes good enough to play a role - the other two are certainties to more than play a role.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Flip side is a lot of posters were suggesting Henry wouldn't get senior games in Geelongs stacked forward line in 2023. The good young players take a spot in the 22 and cement it quickly. I am a fan of Reefs but Henry is a mile ahead of him on both performance and potential. Not a good comparison to me.

Nor is it a particularly helpful one. Henry has left the club and that was 100% his choice and nothing could be done to prevent that. He’s a gun though and we will be crying tears of regret for years that we couldn’t keep him, fortunately not too salty though because premiership.

 

[Kappa]

Not really - it just makes Fly's decision difficult to understand given his public endorsement of the kid.
I would have thought that was self evident.

Fly publicly endorses all his players, that's his style.

Not difficult to understand at all.

 

[No SPIN]

Fly publicly endorses all his players, that's his style.

Not difficult to understand at all.

Very different to the way he’s spoken about Finn - which is why no one has challenged this point, apart from yourself.

Sorry that you’ve missed the obvious difference.

 

[Kappa]

Very different to the way he’s spoken about Finn - which is why no one has challenged this point, apart from yourself.

Sorry that you’ve missed the obvious difference.

Whatever helps you sleep at night