QAFL COLTS 2020

[Covertackle]

Perhaps colts should have a section considering potential draftees play in the Colts when not busy with rep duties.

A couple of Morningside boys will likely play a bit of Colts this season, and have draft aspirations. While Nathan Colenzo, although 18 this year seems to have cemented a seniors position, though rep duties may see him play in Colts occasionally to give him a bit of a break?

Blake Coleman is widely expected to be drafted from Morningside, be it this year or next. While Will Tasker also has aspirations in that area. Im sure each club has some u18s looking to enter the draft this year as well. Would like to know some of the other hopefuls to keep an eye on from the various clubs..

 

[noosaboy]

Yeah well why not have a colts forum tn! Whilst not competing in the qafl just yet,the development and future of our colts at Noosa was and is our number one priority going forward and advancing into the higher grade.So far our joint venture with Coolum has been terrific and so well received.In terms of player quality I know we are a young list mostly bottom age and a long way away from any possible draft talking.Im hearing Shadow Brain( nephew of past maroochy star Kerry) is one to look out for whilst big Mitch langan( son of country football champion Reece) May stay the 2020 season at Noosa after a very promising year at the Geelong falcons last year!

 

[smy1305]

One year enough for Mitchy mate? Can only take so much of that boarding school life.

was watching maroochy colts last night run around after our training. Some impressive types. Not sure any colts boys who have aspirations to be drafted will be playing colts tbh esp in a shortened season. Every post needs to be a winner I’d think. But certainly no academy means a very strong qafl colts comp. which is fantastic for the bottom age boys and transition into senior footy as well.

 

[Still Me]

One year enough for Mitchy mate? Can only take so much of that boarding school life.

was watching maroochy colts last night run around after our training. Some impressive types. Not sure any colts boys who have aspirations to be drafted will be playing colts tbh esp in a shortened season. Every post needs to be a winner I’d think. But certainly no academy means a very strong qafl colts comp. which is fantastic for the bottom age boys and transition into senior footy as well.

Surprised there has been no mention of any U18’s or Academy Footy for QLD and NSW.

The NAB announced they are kicking off and have a 6 game season for all the draft aspirants. Wonder if Lions, Suns, GWS and Swans will have their own hub for 6 weeks and play each other twice maybe?

 

[smy1305]

Surprised there has been no mention of any U18’s or Academy Footy for QLD and NSW.

The NAB announced they are kicking off and have a 6 game season for all the draft aspirants. Wonder if Lions, Suns, GWS and Swans will have their own hub for 6 weeks and play each other twice maybe?

Think the boys are going straight to Allies - being selected possibly from QAFL form?

 

[smy1305]

I think its more to do with the lack of staff at that level now. Bit bare in the cupboard at academy level.

 

[Still Me]

Think the boys are going straight to Allies - being selected possibly from QAFL form?

You probably right SMY which is a shame as I don’t think many will play senior footy at QAFL Level this year?

 

[Covertackle]

You probably right SMY which is a shame as I don’t think many will play senior footy at QAFL Level this year?

I think its a really good thing for a young bloke to really earn/deserve a gig with the seniors. Some kids will be 19-24 before they play top grade. Some will never make top grade. I dont like the idea of 'everyone gets a trophy' footy. Having a competition strong enough that only potential draftees can make a top grade debut at 18, gives more perspective for kids who have dreams, and to also have a plan B earlier than they may have had if the QAFL were to remain weak.

I see it as a good thing for talented kids. It gives them feedback on where they really are, younger than years gone by. Some will see it as an opportunity to try harder. Some will decide that other things in life are just as or more important and are comfortable with playing club footy. But either way, judgement comes earlier, and i think that is a good thing for kids.

.

 

[Miller1971]

You probably right SMY which is a shame as I don’t think many will play senior footy at QAFL Level this year?

Interestingly, if you look around the competition a majority of the 17/18 year olds playing senior footy weren't or aren't part of academy programs.

Many academy kids float back through their clubs and end up in the Colts or 2's, and due to academy duties often don't get the opportunity to earn a senior spot.

The best 5 or 6 kids running around the QAFL last year at senior level such as Colenso, Greene, Edwards etc weren't part of any academies. Will be interesting to see how many academy kids play senior footy this year now that they are entrenched at their clubs for a longer period and exposed to coaches more often.

 

[Still Me]

I think its a really good thing for a young bloke to really earn/deserve a gig with the seniors. Some kids will be 19-24 before they play top grade. Some will never make top grade. I dont like the idea of 'everyone gets a trophy' footy. Having a competition strong enough that only potential draftees can make a top grade debut at 18, gives more perspective for kids who have dreams, and to also have a plan B earlier than they may have had if the QAFL were to remain weak.

I see it as a good thing for talented kids. It gives them feedback on where they really are, younger than years gone by. Some will see it as an opportunity to try harder. Some will decide that other things in life are just as or more important and are comfortable with playing club footy. But either way, judgement comes earlier, and i think that is a good thing for kids.

.

Don’t disagree Tiger as I think a lot of boys in Academies think they are further advanced than they are and playing senior footy soon levels them up and gives them reality check.

Will soon see how are few of the so called better ones aim up this year as there will be no where to hide.

If they can perform at this level it will hold them in good stead for wherever their footy takes them.

 

[Still Me]

Interestingly, if you look around the competition a majority of the 17/18 year olds playing senior footy weren't or aren't part of academy programs.

Many academy kids float back through their clubs and end up in the Colts or 2's, and due to academy duties often don't get the opportunity to earn a senior spot.

The best 5 or 6 kids running around the QAFL last year at senior level such as Colenso, Greene, Edwards etc weren't part of any academies. Will be interesting to see how many academy kids play senior footy this year now that they are entrenched at their clubs for a longer period and exposed to coaches more often.

Yes you right. Some may surprise and no doubt some will fail. Doesn’t mean they won’t eventually make the grade, but they may get more honest feedback from club land as to where they are actually at?

 

[smy1305]

Don’t disagree Tiger as I think a lot of boys in Academies think they are further advanced than they are and playing senior footy soon levels them up and gives them reality check.

Will soon see how are few of the so called better ones aim up this year as there will be no where to hide.

If they can perform at this level it will hold them in good stead for wherever their footy takes them.

Yes agree with both you and Tiger SM - the current QAFL set up has allowed alot of boys to play senior footy and think they are going ok by doing so when the reality is they are still a fair way off it. The new look QAFL will be somewhere bn old QAFL and NEAFL but a really good environment for a 16/17/1old to learn their craft. Good coaches from what I know, one less club the kid has to worry about ie some playing NEAFL, club, academy which has always been a major issue imo and the fact that earning a game at senior level will mean they are definitely going ok. TBH if a kid isnt carving it up in QAFL in their last year then they arent going to be drafted nor deserve to be. I think the combo of academy and club will be a good mix.

 

[Covertackle]

Interestingly, if you look around the competition a majority of the 17/18 year olds playing senior footy weren't or aren't part of academy programs.

Many academy kids float back through their clubs and end up in the Colts or 2's, and due to academy duties often don't get the opportunity to earn a senior spot.

The best 5 or 6 kids running around the QAFL last year at senior level such as Colenso, Greene, Edwards etc weren't part of any academies. Will be interesting to see how many academy kids play senior footy this year now that they are entrenched at their clubs for a longer period and exposed to coaches more often.

What Colenzo has done is amazing! No doubt well steered by his Dad. I dont think he played rep footy (by choice) growing up either.

In the past the Academy(s) cast their net for talent pretty narrow. There is no way one can pick through 12yos and predict who will be the best at 18yo. Last year the Lions doubled their academy in each age group, which i think was a great step forward. I agree, there are a lot of kids who should be in the academy but are not , while some are in it who should not be. I think the Academies realised this, and began casting their net wider last year, which was a good start.

Kids mature at different rates. Even 18yos can hugely mature by 20yo, where others not so much. Ive always thought clubs should play more of a development role than they do. I realise politics in clubs makes it hard to single out players for elevation to higher age groups/grades or development squads, etc.

I dont know the answer. All i can say is back your kids dreams to the extent you feel they have the potential, and ave them engage in a plan B, weather it is further study, a trade etc.

 

[smy1305]

I think you will still see kids stick with academy irrespective of the pros and cons. Bottom line the best way to get drafted as a 18yr old Qldr is to play for the Allies and make AA. Clear majority of kids drafted get through in this way no matter what state they come from. The research tells us this. Interestingly its not about the athleticism in yr 18; its about how you play the game. It may be so when initially selected as a 12/13/14 yr old but the final year it all gets down to performance. The 2 boys drafted to the Tigers in 2020 did so bc they performed as 18yr olds for the Allies, not bc they had special physical abilities. Rowell didnt do exceptionally at the combine but was the clear standout as a footballer in 2019 across the nation.

 

[Covertackle]

I think you will still see kids stick with academy irrespective of the pros and cons. Bottom line the best way to get drafted as a 18yr old Qldr is to play for the Allies and make AA. Clear majority of kids drafted get through in this way no matter what state they come from. The research tells us this. Interestingly its not about the athleticism in yr 18; its about how you play the game. It may be so when initially selected as a 12/13/14 yr old but the final year it all gets down to performance. The 2 boys drafted to the Tigers in 2020 did so bc they performed as 18yr olds for the Allies, not bc they had special physical abilities. Rowell didnt do exceptionally at the combine but was the clear standout as a footballer in 2019 across the nation.

From what ive seen you are right. A QLD kid has to make the Allies side at least to be drafted. AA though, I don't think is necessary.

Id have to disagree that athleticism isnt a prerequisite; it is. You make a great point in Rowells performance though. Im amazed an obviously small, mediocre athlete has achieved the success he has already. How long he can sustain that level of impact i have reservations. Rowell is an exception to the rule, that only comes around only so often. How often do you see someone so slow drafted who is also a small? 178cm and 75kg? Rarely?

Speed, a degree of it at least, is a prerequisite across the board. Unless they are talls, mostly ruckmen, speed is nessesary, and even tall forwards usually have a decent set of wheels.

But you are right, Rowell does prove it can be done.

 

[smy1305]

From what ive seen you are right. A QLD kid has to make the Allies side at least to be drafted. AA though, I don't think is necessary.

Id have to disagree that athleticism isnt a prerequisite; it is. You make a great point in Rowells performance though. Im amazed an obviously small, mediocre athlete has achieved the success he has already. How long he can sustain that level of impact i have reservations. Rowell is an exception to the rule, that only comes around only so often. How often do you see someone so slow drafted who is also a small? 178cm and 75kg? Rarely?

Speed, a degree of it at least, is a prerequisite across the board. Unless they are talls, mostly ruckmen, speed is nessesary, and even tall forwards usually have a decent set of wheels.

But you are right, Rowell does prove it can be done.

Its a bit of a fallacy the athleticism is required to be drafted high - certainly you need athleticism to play well so its a bit of a trick question. But if a bloke doesn't come near any of the benchmarks required at draft camp BUT plays really well to the point that he makes the AA side or has a cracking year of footy in the TAC or state comps he will be drafted. There is a fair bit of research around re what are the common factors for early drafting - I'm doing some study atm in a masters degree in sports coaching and one of the subjects is on exactly this. The research was really interesting. Like you said standing height and speed are kpi's plus the yo yo test result. But the #1 factor was playing well (which makes sense). Its not necessary to make AA but its nearly a lock if you do. Basically some astute judges are rating your ability high. If you go back through the draft camp results and then compare with the top 10 draftees there isnt really a lot of similarity.

The other interesting factor was being indigenous actually increases your chances - clubs prepared to tap into a bit of raw talent possibly with a bit less coaching and mould the rough diamond vs a kid who has been gifted it all as far as opportunities and still is only as good as the indig lad.

 

[smy1305]

From what ive seen you are right. A QLD kid has to make the Allies side at least to be drafted. AA though, I don't think is necessary.

Id have to disagree that athleticism isnt a prerequisite; it is. You make a great point in Rowells performance though. Im amazed an obviously small, mediocre athlete has achieved the success he has already. How long he can sustain that level of impact i have reservations. Rowell is an exception to the rule, that only comes around only so often. How often do you see someone so slow drafted who is also a small? 178cm and 75kg? Rarely?

Speed, a degree of it at least, is a prerequisite across the board. Unless they are talls, mostly ruckmen, speed is nessesary, and even tall forwards usually have a decent set of wheels.

But you are right, Rowell does prove it can be done.

he is just the classic inside mid who can find the footy and uses well. Not a great kick but will improve but tough and doesnt fumble. And he might have been that weight last year - I doubt it now...

 

[smy1305]

Sam Walsh another example - good runner (yo yo test) but nothing spectacular elsewhere.
Andrew McGrath as well - had one good test (cant remember which one) but can play.
Decision making, skill set still sits very high bc clubs know this is 10x more difficult to teach than physical attributes.

 

[Covertackle]

he is just the classic inside mid who can find the footy and uses well. Not a great kick but will improve but tough and doesnt fumble. And he might have been that weight last year - I doubt it now...

Ive watched a fair bit of junior footy both park/club and the elite u17-18s on youtube over the last 10 or so years. An observation at club level; One sees a lot of busy footy players that are considered talented. Run all day, always at the contest. Coaches favourite, Often win B&F for their team at years end. A few things stand out with most of them; They dont get clean ball much, if they do they dont clear it well to a target, and/or they clear it but don't make the best decision with it. Rowell does all 3, AND he is busy.

Just wish he would get bigger shorts..

.

 

[smy1305]

Ive watched a fair bit of junior footy both park/club and the elite u17-18s on youtube over the last 10 or so years. An observation at club level; One sees a lot of busy footy players that are considered talented. Run all day, always at the contest. Coaches favourite, Often win B&F for their team at years end. A few things stand out with most of them; They dont get clean ball much, if they do they dont clear it well to a target, and/or they clear it but don't make the best decision with it. Rowell does all 3, AND he is busy.

Just wish he would get bigger shorts..

.

Yes his nickname with the Suns boys should be Harry (Highpants). he is great isnt he. Had a stellar junior career and transferred it immediately into AFL footy.
basically what you are saying re alot of the boys you have watched is that they accumulate possessions and no one seems to care if they hit a target or use it efficiently.
Its a hard job identifying talent I reckon - combination of gifts (born with) and hard work (grit). If you find the rare combo of a guy who values both as equally as the other then they invariably become elite, otherwise most remain just very good or good players at varying levels incl AFL I think. Been good discussion mate. Thanks

 

[Covertackle]

- I'm doing some study atm in a masters degree in sports coaching and one of the subjects is on exactly this. The research was really interesting.

Edit. Could be taken the wrong way. was an example of rep and academy vs no rep and academy, not about a particular person, just the process. Not here to upset anyone. Just a footy conversation.


.

 

[Thommo 42]

In the past the Academy(s) cast their net for talent pretty narrow. There is no way one can pick through 12yos and predict who will be the best at 18yo. Last year the Lions doubled their academy in each age group, which i think was a great step forward. I agree, there are a lot of kids who should be in the academy but are not , while some are in it who should not be. I think the Academies realised this, and began casting their net wider last year, which was a good start.

I would argue the opposite mate. 12 and 13 year olds in academies is ridiculous. One of my best mates has an 11 year old son in the Swans academy!

At Sherwood we have about 7 or 8 12 and 13 year olds in the Lions academy! Surely they can just enjoy their club footy, play some rep stuff and develop appropriately? We're not a footy backwater anymore, its almost like the 'system' doesn't trust clubs with talented kids.

My young fella is 11, I expect he will be invited to the Lions academy next year - if its solely up to me, he won't be going! He has enough training commitments etc across multiple sports and I'd rather save the $ they would likely fleece me and donate it to my club!

 

[smy1305]

Like to get your thoughts on this, as its perhaps a coaching psyc thingy..

(1) Imagine a talented kid didnt play rep footy. Could have, was good enough but his dad decided it wasnt in his best interests. As a consequence, he didnt make the academy as a youth.

Consider the boy looking round at kids he knew, making rep sides, state sides. Kids he believed he was as good as or better than, making these sides, year after year while he didnt have the chance to prove himself. He would have gained confidence in seeing these kids succeed and believing he was just as good and could have made these sides as well. Believing he was good enough, and also getting a chip on his shoulder, as he would want to prove himself.

(2) Another talented boy, perhaps equally as talented, does do the rep thing and the academy, but fails to make the ultimate rep sides. Perhaps he should have made those sides but was overlooked for whatever reason. Frustrated, upset.

Which boy goes into senior footy with the most prepared mindset?


.

Yeah good question - obviously lots of variables attached as well but both anecdotally and from personal experience having coached numerous youth teams at varying levels plus senior footy at Div 1 standard I would say player #1 and this is only bc I think if the boy is still playing at 18 its bc he really loves the game despite not being allowed to play in the rep sides. I think the #2 kid will often take that kick in the guts as their first set back and often drop their bundle. Possibly playing only bc of those extrinsic rewards. Which will invariably be less and less as you move into senior footy. Seen this happen sooo many times. Is one of the issues with the academies is their "after sales" service with kids who dont get drafted or make the Allies / state teams. Is why club footy is so important as it hopefully is the net to capture the kid and bring him back up attitude wise.

Personally I wouldnt care too much if a kid played rep footy as a 12-15yr old. Only really starts to matter from U16 onwards after development (and even then only some) has occurred. Is why school footy has been pushed to U14 at a national level now - bc it doesnt matter as much. The academies want to be across the kids from 15-18.

 

[smy1305]

I would argue the opposite mate. 12 and 13 year olds in academies is ridiculous. One of my best mates has an 11 year old son in the Swans academy!

At Sherwood we have about 7 or 8 12 and 13 year olds in the Lions academy! Surely they can just enjoy their club footy, play some rep stuff and develop appropriately? We're not a footy backwater anymore, its almost like the 'system' doesn't trust clubs with talented kids.

My young fella is 11, I expect he will be invited to the Lions academy next year - if its solely up to me, he won't be going! He has enough training commitments etc across multiple sports and I'd rather save the $ they would likely fleece me and donate it to my club!

Disagree Thommo - the casting of a wide net is a smart idea imo. Captures everyone. I think whats more important is how this is then treated by the academy. Do they pump the kids up to be the most important thing in their world or do they provide slack for kids to be involved in 2,3 other sports? parents have a choice as to how often they take their kids if at all. If its once per week thats ok - obviously you would have to critique what hes getting out of it but here in Qld our biggest issue is that kids dont touch the footy enough during the week vs southern states so a night of kicking a footy around wouldnt hurt. If it was > 120min then thats dumb, if it is <90% touching a ball, even dumber. Unfortunately alot of this elite training seems to revolve around improving physical attributes vs technical.

 

[smy1305]

Disagree Thommo - the casting of a wide net is a smart idea imo. Captures everyone. I think whats more important is how this is then treated by the academy. Do they pump the kids up to be the most important thing in their world or do they provide slack for kids to be involved in 2,3 other sports? parents have a choice as to how often they take their kids if at all. If its once per week thats ok - obviously you would have to critique what hes getting out of it but here in Qld our biggest issue is that kids dont touch the footy enough during the week vs southern states so a night of kicking a footy around wouldnt hurt. If it was > 120min then thats dumb, if it is <90% touching a ball, even dumber. Unfortunately alot of this elite training seems to revolve around improving physical attributes vs technical.

And remember your son is lucky enough to have a dad that will kick a footy with him (I imagine.. ) plus can talk footy on a good level with him - dont take any of that for granted in the state!