Moved Thread Nick Daicos or Will Ashcroft?

[Lavender Bushranger]

... an average disposal length of 15m per possession ...

Is that accurate??

 

[PieLebo87]

Not really. Hence me asking the question.

He’s #3 in the AFL for metres gained with 521 per game. Only Luke Ryan and Christian Petracca are ahead of him.

For context, Connor Rozee is #7.

 

[PieLebo87]

Not really at all surprising.

Not surprising that a 2nd year player is averaging 33 possessions a game and leads the competition?

A contested possession % of 28% and an average disposal length of 15m per possession is the lowest combination I can remember from a player that plays the majority of his footy between the arcs with that amount of uncontested ball since most of these stats have been recorded.

For context, you’d take Rozee’s avg of 20 metres per possession at 68% DE and 59% kicking efficiency over Daicos’s 15 metres per possession at 78% DE and 75% kicking efficiency?

If guys like Boomer and Ablett were the king of the one-two, Daicos has taken it to an entirely different level.

Adding 4 disposals per game from play-on kick in's helps his numbers also historically.

Historically he's averaging 29 touches per game, of which 28% of it is contested. That is definitely not unprecedented.

He's going at almost a goal a game, which is awesome for his starting position. But people overlook he attends over 30% of Collingwoods center bounces. He's basically a +1 midfielder with no opponent. He's not a half back.

It’s pretty clear where you want to take this but it actually has zero substance when you compare him with other players. Petracca averages 18 metres per possession and is #2 in the comp for metres gained.

Try again.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

He’s #3 in the AFL for metres gained with 521 per game. Only Luke Ryan and Christian Petracca are ahead of him.

For context, Connor Rozee is #7.

But he runs with the ball quite a bit doesn't he?

So a 20m kick becomes 30m if you carry it before disposing of it?

 

[Sphynx]

Not surprising that a 2nd year player is averaging 33 possessions a game and leads the competition?



For context, you’d take Rozee’s avg of 20 metres per possession at 68% DE and 59% kicking efficiency over Daicos’s 15 metres per possession at 78% DE and 75% kicking efficiency?



It’s pretty clear where you want to take this but it actually has zero substance when you compare him with other players. Petracca averages 18 metres per possession and is #2 in the comp for metres gained.

Try again.

Petracca has a contested possession % of 47% and averages over 6 clearances per game.

In those situations, you tend to give off short handballs, because you are under pressure of being tackled.

The fact he disposes of it further than Daicos on average and is a huge meters gained player shows the massive difference between the two. Petracca wins the contested ball, breaks from congestion and moves the ball forward massively.


I don't think those stats add to your argument like you think it does.

The players below Daicos' contested % numbers with high disposal numbers are the ones you would think of - Jake Lloyd, Aaron Hall, Karl Amon, Jarman Impey, Lachie Weller, Lachie Whitfield, Jordan Clark, Andrew Gaff, Bailey Dale, Chad Wingard.

Hardly the who's who of elite ball winning midfielders is it?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Petracca has a contested possession % of 47% and averages over 6 clearances per game.

In those situations, you tend to give off short handballs, because you are under pressure of being tackled.

The fact he disposes of it further than Daicos on average and is a huge meters gained player shows the massive difference between the two. Petracca wins the contested ball, breaks from congestion and moves the ball forward massively.


I don't think those stats add to your argument like you think it does.

Petracca is no. 1 in the comp for Inside 50s too.

 

[Sphynx]

Is that accurate??

Yes. But the meters per disposal includes the amount you run with the ball in addition to your disposal.

Which should illustrate to you how many tiny handballs and chip kicks he does, given he is a top 10 running bounce player in the league.

They don't track the real disposal length, but if I was a betting man, I'd waged he'd have close to the lowest real disposal length in the comp given how much he carries the ball on average.

15.1 Meters/per Disp.

503.8 Meters Gained

8.8 Disposals per turnover

8.4 CP's

28.8% CP/%

3.4 kick ins per game (100% play on %)

31.3% CBA's attended

11.2% center clearances won/per CBA attended

 

[Elixuh]

Hmm so at the outset it is clear both are very good players and one would normally celebrate both players equally. HOWEVA, this thread was started by a Collingwood supporter and screams of desperation and insecurity.

The only real way to compare the pair is to compare them up against one another in a contest for the same ball. Now that is obviously going to be difficult when the teams only play each other once or twice a year and Nick and Will have historically played different positions - Nick backline and Will inside mid.

NEVERMIND FOUND ONE:



As you can see here, Will uses his silky skills to collect the ball and run off while Nick squibs a contest in which contact would be forthcoming. You hate to see it.

End thread.

 

[PieLebo87]

But he runs with the ball quite a bit doesn't he?

So a 20m kick becomes 30m if you carry it before disposing of it?

That, I’m not too sure about. Good question.

 

[PieLebo87]

Yes. But the meters per disposal includes the amount you run with the ball in addition to your disposal.

Which should illustrate to you how many tiny handballs and chip kicks he does, given he is a top 10 running bounce player in the league.

They don't track the real disposal length, but if I was a betting man, I'd waged he'd have close to the lowest real disposal length in the comp given how much he carries the ball on average.

15.1 Meters/per Disp.

503.8 Meters Gained

8.8 Disposals per turnover

8.4 CP's

28.8% CP/%

3.4 kick ins per game (100% play on %)

31.3% CBA's attended

11.2% center clearances won/per CBA attended

It started that he stat pads by taking kick outs and doesn’t know how to win contested possessions.

Last 2 weeks with JDG out he has spent more time in the middle and gone at 37% and 30% contested possessions, including 8 clearances on the weekend. Kid continues to prove the doubters wrong.

I admire your types as he consistently ensures you end up with egg on your face. Your posts will no doubt make for great reading material down the track.

 

[Sphynx]

It started that he stat pads by taking kick outs and doesn’t know how to win contested possessions.

Last 2 weeks with JDG out he has spent more time in the middle and gone at 37% and 30% contested possessions, including 8 clearances on the weekend. Kid continues to prove the doubters wrong.

I admire your types as he consistently ensures you end up with egg on your face. Your posts will no doubt make for great reading material down the track.

How can I have egg on my face when I've simply stated current facts?

Have I stated he can't improve? No.

But lets be realistic about what player he currently is, you were the OP, a clearly insecure one at that.

 

[BigPond101]

Both are a bit overrated and don't impact the game as much as their hype would suggest Wardlaw from North Melbourne will blow past both of them in the next few years

 

[Rich01]

Nick is an outstanding outside runner and will probably transition into an elite outside mid over time. Will be excellent as the release player from the contested possession and as a line breaking runner.

Will end up a more damaging Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

.

 

[VinnieB]

Is Nick the best player at Collingwood?

Probably. Fighting it out with JDG in my opinion.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Ashcroft is a midfielder who pushes forward.
Daicos is a half back that pushes into the middle.

Half backs will always get more disposals as they'll often get the 1-2 (if they're any good)

It is quite concerning the lack of marks for daicos though given his position

 

[VinnieB]

Not really at all surprising.

A contested possession % of 28% and an average disposal length of 15m per possession is the lowest combination I can remember from a player that plays the majority of his footy between the arcs with that amount of uncontested ball since most of these stats have been recorded.

If guys like Boomer and Ablett were the king of the one-two, Daicos has taken it to an entirely different level.

Adding 4 disposals per game from play-on kick in's helps his numbers also historically.

Historically he's averaging 29 touches per game, of which 28% of it is contested. That is definitely not unprecedented.

He's going at almost a goal a game, which is awesome for his starting position. But people overlook he attends over 30% of Collingwoods center bounces. He's basically a +1 midfielder with no opponent. He's not a half back.

Played most of the game in the middle on Sunday and had 14 contested possessions and 9 clearances.

If there was a stat which showed metres gained after an effective delivery of the ball, he would blow that stat out. His work in congestion getting the ball out to open up the attacking game is on another level.

 

[PieLebo87]

How can I have egg on my face when I've simply stated current facts?

You’ll end up with egg on your face because of your insinuation that he doesn’t do any damage with his disposals and is a stat paddler.

Have I stated he can't improve? No.

You’re given zero credibility because all you’ve done is potted a kid who is dominating AFL football. Just because you haven’t said he can’t improve doesn’t mean you haven’t just repeatedly posted negatively about him post after post. Again, will be funny to read down the track.

But lets be realistic about what player he currently is, you were the OP, a clearly insecure one at that.

Going the man by calling me insecure. Well played

 

[VinnieB]

Ashcroft is a midfielder who pushes forward.
Daicos is a half back that pushes into the middle.

Half backs will always get more disposals as they'll often get the 1-2 (if they're any good)

It is quite concerning the lack of marks for daicos though given his position

He played all game in the middle on Sunday. And spent the first 8 minutes on the bench. Still amassed plenty of the ball and was instrumental in the last qtr to us winning the game.

 

[Noidnadroj]

This one is for those loyal Lions fans who still think young Nick doesn’t quite do it as well in congestion. Now that he is spending abit more time in the middle, we’re starting to see the season’s averages skew in Nick’s favour.

Instead of the regular little squabbles in random threads, it’d be more fun to confine it to one thread for the pissing contest.

YTD, here are their averages: (Nick on the left, Will on the right)

View attachment 1722672

Who does it look like that does it better in the congestion?

Poll end date is close of Round 23, when the Lions and Pies meet.

Is this comparing Naicos in his second year to Ashcroft in his first? Sort of silly if that’s the case.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Sphynx]

You’ll end up with egg on your face because of your insinuation that he doesn’t do any damage with his disposals and is a stat paddler.



You’re given zero credibility because all you’ve done is potted a kid who is dominating AFL football. Just because you haven’t said he can’t improve doesn’t mean you haven’t just repeatedly posted negatively about him post after post. Again, will be funny to read down the track.



Going the man by calling me insecure. Well played

You've literally made up everything in this post.

Congratulations.

 

[Noidnadroj]

He’s #3 in the AFL for metres gained with 521 per game. Only Luke Ryan and Christian Petracca are ahead of him.

For context, Connor Rozee is #7.

I read somewhere he has taken approx 4 x kick-ins per game. Run 15m out of square, then kick it 55m = 70m. He obviously doesn’t do this every kick in, but kick-Ins adds probably 150-200m per game to his metres gained stats. Rozee never takes a kick out.

Luke Ryan does Freo kick outs also, hence his high metres gained.

It’s why we also see the following players appearing high in average metres gained:

Brodie Smith
Wanganeen-Milera
Houston
Dale
Stewart
Redman
Ziebell
Short
Weller
Rich
Sicily
May

I won’t go on …

Kick outs stats need to be removed from all stats asap for multiple stats such as metres gained, kicks, disposal efficiency etc… to retain relevance.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Elixuh]

Damn this Collingwood fellow is taking a lot of Ls in his own troll thread. Tough scenes.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

He played all game in the middle on Sunday. And spent the first 8 minutes on the bench. Still amassed plenty of the ball and was instrumental in the last qtr to us winning the game.

Show me the GPS charts and I'll happily retract my statement and admit I'm wrong.

And yes, he was instrumental in the win.
A half back can be very influential

 

[PieLebo87]

Show me the GPS charts and I'll happily retract my statement and admit I'm wrong.

And yes, he was instrumental in the win.
A half back can be very influential

I could be wrong, but is that red the heat map of where he spent most of his time?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I could be wrong, but is that red the heat map of where he spent most of his time?

View attachment 1723313

Well I will be damn. I happily retract my statement, even if just for the week.
Interested in how the heatmap works though given he's got a third of his disposals on a wing but no heat sig....

Oh well, maybe I'll have to watch him more closely