Will Ashcroft or Nick Daicos?

[bungalow_bill]

Both players are future superstars but which one would you choose to play for your team?

 

[M Malice]

Different types, Ashcroft a balanced with a lean to inside mid and Daicos more outside, both will be very good players and both clubs would be happy.

I choose Ashcroft because I am a biased Lions fanatic.

 

[My Tilly]

Daicos and it won't even be close.

Ashcroft will be a star but Daicos is going to be a superstar.

 

[juss]

You can't vote anyone but Daicos at this point, but that's a bit unfair to Ashcroft as we haven't seen enough of him yet.

 

[danster168]

Daicos by a long long way.

 

[Zevon]

Will probably get my head bitten off for this but I’d rather somebody who has shown proof he can get in and do the hard things. Feel like Ashcroft is ahead of Daicos in that regard for now.

Things can always change and I daresay Daicos can and will add that toughness to his bow, just haven’t seen enough of it yet. He runs hard and works his guts out, no queries there, but he still gets a lot of cheap outside ball. Nothing wrong with that per se (he’s playing his role perfectly) but the players that turn into out and out superstars tend to be the ones that have a mixture of inside & outside game. Keen to see that develop some more.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Like Ashcroft but Daicos is next level, he will end up the GOAT IMO.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Will probably get my head bitten off for this but I’d rather somebody who has shown proof he can get in and do the hard things. Feel like Ashcroft is ahead of Daicos in that regard for now.

Things can always change and I daresay Daicos can and will add that toughness to his bow, just haven’t seen enough of it yet. He runs hard and works his guts out, no queries there, but he still gets a lot of cheap outside ball. Nothing wrong with that per se (he’s playing his role perfectly) but the players that turn into out and out superstars tend to be the ones that have a mixture of inside & outside game. Keen to see that develop some more.

He’s far from soft mate, second year and is without any semblance of doubt is the best player in the comp, barring injury the Brownlow is his and he’ll probably be AA captain, we haven’t seen the likes of him before:

 

[Zevon]

He’s far from soft mate, second year and is without any semblance of doubt is the best player in the comp, barring injury the Brownlow is his and he’ll probably be AA captain, we haven’t seen the likes of him before:

You're more than welcome to that opinion. Like I said, jury is still out for me until he adds some inside stuff to his game. Will concede it hasn't been his role in the team thus far so I can hardly judge him for not having shown it yet, but I'd still like to know he has that string to his bow when the likes of Adams and Mitchell aren't there to farm it out to him anymore.

 

[My Tilly]

Ashcroft looks more like another Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

type. You'd be happy with that.

Daicos just a level above.
Be interesting to see what his ceiling could be.
If he adds goals to the tally, along with the versatility of playing multiple positions, no reason why he can't become a top 5 player in the competition for a very long time.

 

[M Malice]

Will probably get my head bitten off for this but I’d rather somebody who has shown proof he can get in and do the hard things. Feel like Ashcroft is ahead of Daicos in that regard for now.

Things can always change and I daresay Daicos can and will add that toughness to his bow, just haven’t seen enough of it yet. He runs hard and works his guts out, no queries there, but he still gets a lot of cheap outside ball. Nothing wrong with that per se (he’s playing his role perfectly) but the players that turn into out and out superstars tend to be the ones that have a mixture of inside & outside game. Keen to see that develop some more.

Ashcroft also suffers from being off Broadway up here in Brisbane, Daicos is getting a bucket load of media hype which is fine, he looks like he is going to be a great player.

Ashcroft has been sensational for us, his hands in and around the contest have been exceptional, not over handball happy though, he has a good balance to his game, averaging 11 handballs/12 kicks per game. To my eye he has improved his play in his short 5 game career and I agree with catscollector , he is a Lachie Neale type.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Ashcroft looks more like another Lachie Neale type. You'd be happy with that.

Daicos just a level above.
Be interesting to see what his ceiling could be.
If he adds goals to the tally, along with the versatility of playing multiple positions, no reason why he can't become a top 5 player in the competition for a very long time.

It’s interesting that his brother took a good 3 years to cement his spot, if Nick has even half the improvement his brother had it will be scary.

 

[KissKiss]

It’s interesting that his brother took a good 3 years to cement his spot, if Nick has even half the improved his brother had it will be scary.

Did the coaching change with new game plan help both of them?

The new style seems to favour getting the ball out to the run and kick players more

 

[danster168]

He’s far from soft mate, second year and is without any semblance of doubt is the best player in the comp, barring injury the Brownlow is his and he’ll probably be AA captain, we haven’t seen the likes of him before:

it's baffling to me that you don't think he is soft. Especially after he got exposed last week squibbling about 3 contests. One of which went viral on twitter. Other than that I agree that he is close to the best player in the game. His foot skills and decision making and work ethic are elite. That doesn't mean he isn't soft though.

Regarding Ashcroft, the majority of his disposals are uncontested at this stage and skills wise I think they are not as good as advertised. Nor has he been as clean as advertised. Sheezel is a long way ahead. Ginbey, Michelanney have been better imo. That could change though but I don't get swept up by stats.

 

[M Malice]

it's baffling to me that you don't think he is soft. Especially after he got exposed last week squibbling about 3 contests. One of which went viral on twitter. Other than that I agree that he is close to the best player in the game. His foot skills and decision making and work ethic are elite. That doesn't mean he isn't soft though.

Regarding Ashcroft, the majority of his disposals are uncontested at this stage and skills wise I think they are not as good as advertised. Nor has he been as clean as advertised. Sheezel is a long way ahead. Ginbey, Michelanney have been better imo. That could change though but I don't get swept up by stats.

Going by AFL Tables statistics Ashcroft so far this season has had 46 contested possessions and 67 uncontested possessions... yes a majority although he is playing in a side with one of the most dominate inside mids in the game in Lachie Neale and another very good inside mid in Josh Dunkley, also sharing inside time with the likes of Hugh McCluggage and Jarrod Berry.

IMO a very good mix of contested to uncontested possessions considering the calibre of player he is sharing the opportunity of getting contested possessions with.

BTW I agree that Sheezel and Ginbey have been very good, no way in the world they are a "long way ahead" of Ashcroft though... IMO, Michelanney I have not seen play as yet. There are a lot of very good young players around at the moment, lets enjoy them all.

 

[Ginnieboy]

it's baffling to me that you don't think he is soft. Especially after he got exposed last week squibbling about 3 contests. One of which went viral on twitter. Other than that I agree that he is close to the best player in the game. His foot skills and decision making and work ethic are elite. That doesn't mean he isn't soft though.

Regarding Ashcroft, the majority of his disposals are uncontested at this stage and skills wise I think they are not as good as advertised. Nor has he been as clean as advertised. Sheezel is a long way ahead. Ginbey, Michelanney have been better imo. That could change though but I don't get swept up by stats.

I wasn’t saying he’s Glen Archer mate, courage has many faces, gut running is one, taking players on is another, not panicking with ball in hand is one too, he doesn’t need to burst though packs because he’s smart enough and good enough to not have too.

Now Glen Archer was as courageous as they come but he often shat his pants and slammed the ball on the boot when under pressure, it’s funny how courage is linked Solely to tough man s**t.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Ashcroft by the length of the Flemington Straight.

 

[danster168]

I wasn’t saying he’s Glen Archer mate, courage has many faces, gut running is one, taking players on is another, not panicking with ball in hand is one too, he doesn’t need to burst though packs because he’s smart enough and good enough to not have too.

Now Glen Archer was as courageous as they come but he often shat his pants and slammed the ball on the boot when under pressure, it’s funny how courage is linked Solely to tough man s**t.

I think you're conveniently squirming out of the definition to suit your narrative. Soft = afraid to get physically hurt. That's it. We have Jake Bowey who is smaller than Daicos and he goes much harder. So I agree with others, he needs to be better. You say he's smart enough and good enough to not have to put his body on the line and that's simply not true. When he squibbed the contests last week his opponents just grabbed the ball and ran away.

 

[Ginnieboy]

I think you're conveniently squirming out of the definition to suit your narrative. Soft = afraid to get physically hurt. That's it. We have Jake Bowey who is smaller than Daicos and he goes much harder. So I agree with others, he needs to be better. You say he's smart enough and good enough to not have to put his body on the line and that's simply not true. When he squibbed the contests last week his opponents just grabbed the ball and ran away.

Was that before or after he had it 40 odd times?

 

[KissKiss]

Was that before or after he had it 40 odd times?

The soft stuff is really from 2 weeks ago, so before. But really is probably a little over blown. He still looks like a lighter outside player which is expected for a second year outside guy. He doesn't need to be the hardest player out there.

I'd say his bigger "weakness" (as small as it is) is the defensive side of the game. He can get a little exposed going the other way, but that seems to be the whole Pies game at the moment. The best players that happens to, so need a team effort to balance it out.

Ashcroft hands are just about as good as they get already. But his kicking is definitely still a bit rushed and loopy. He looks to still be adjusting to the speed of AFL for that. But for a guy playing 5 games mostly inside thats not an issue. He played zero wing this week so is probably playing more than 60% game time on the inside at the moment

 

[danster168]

The soft stuff is really from 2 weeks ago, so before. But really is probably a little over blown. He still looks like a lighter outside player which is expected for a second year outside guy. He doesn't need to be the hardest player out there.

I'd say his bigger "weakness" (as small as it is) is the defensive side of the game. He can get a little exposed going the other way, but that seems to be the whole Pies game at the moment. The best players that happens to, so need a team effort to balance it out.

Ashcroft hands are just about as good as they get already. But his kicking is definitely still a bit rushed and loopy. He looks to still be adjusting to the speed of AFL for that. But for a guy playing 5 games mostly inside thats not an issue. He played zero wing this week so is probably playing more than 60% game time on the inside at the moment

FInally, a post of reason and logic. Agree with it all.

 

[danster168]

Was that before or after he had it 40 odd times?

stats don't tell a full story. How many kicks ins/run behind the back of a Collingwood player to get the cheapie? 15? It's good on him, he's a great kick and great player but I'd say most players could get 30 touches with this role.

 

[Ginnieboy]

stats don't tell a full story. How many kicks ins/run behind the back of a Collingwood player to get the cheapie? 15? It's good on him, he's a great kick and great player but I'd say most players could get 30 touches with this role.

Ranks as elite for contested ball, averages equal high for contested ball out all defenders, keep trying.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

 

[danster168]

Ranks as elite for contested ball, averages equal high for contested ball out all defenders, keep trying.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

where on earth are you getting your stats from? Are you just making them up?

2023 AFL League Total Contested Possessions Leaders

Daicos may start in defence but as soon as the opening bounce happens he's a midfielder that has the licence to find the footy. His contested work is a clear weakness. A poor tackler and doesn't put his head over the ball as evidenced with his multiple weak efforts caught on tape.

 

[danster168]

View attachment 1664452

no-one is saying he is a bad player. he's elite. we covered this already. But even elite players have weaknesses. And Daicos' criticisms are justified.