New foxtel cup qualification is needed.

[nick1408]

The biggest problem isn't the qualification, it is the fact the SANFL are reluctant to participate. Qualification is a small issue - the VFL, WAFL and SANFL get the most spots, the other state leagues and NTFL get the rest shared.

Since the SANFL are reluctant to put up the premier then that spot should be lost to somewhere else I feel. Same as any other state that decides to go down that route. That spot then becomes a wildcard spot. I think what muesli has proposed is probably the fairest but the qualification needs to be fluid and based on previous finishing positions. If the NEAFL all make the SF then they deserve an extra spot over say the WAFL that may not push three teams through (much like champions league in UEFA).

There are many ways to do it but I think if SA is to hold onto three spots they need to be told to pull their heads in, provide the premier or you get less spots (not none as that's what they want).

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Meh, I like it the way it is

 

[jethro11]

The AFL is just letting itself get trampled on by rugby and soccer in Tasmania. In QLD and NSW aussie rules is the 4th most popular sport yet the afl seems to think that by putting money into the region it will suddenly shoot up to number 1. Compare the great players out of NSW to Stewart, Baldock, Hart, Hudson, Eade, Lynch and Richardson. AFLs been the most popular sport in tassie since the 19th century.Thats why tassie needs more teams in the Foxtel Cup.

Who cares if they get smashed? so did East Coast and "that was fantastic for the game." But it won't happen because every time we hear a mumur out of tassie the afl just kicks them right back under the carpet.

 

[Gibbke]

In the case of that game Swan Districts sent over their reserves side in a fit of pique over scheduling. Previous to that match they took out Collingwood.
There had been some pretty horrific blowouts between full league sides in the old interstate club comps though, South Freo vs Fitzroy and South Freo vs Sydney/Sth Melbourne come to mind. Souths did manage to flog Carlton back then too so.....

Wasn't dissing WA, just using that game by way of comparison...SD had a choice that night, but chose to protest...some of the non Big 3 sides don't have that luxury when it comes to losing margins...

 

[Gibbke]

The NEAFL sides are far stronger than the TSL team.

The bottom couple in the TSL aren't competitive, but the premier team in Tassie over the last decade or so has been very strong. I'd back Clarence to handle almost anyone in the NEAFL outside the AFL reserves and maybe the Thunder. Any local side with a lot of imports (usually this means Southport) would also be very tough to beat. North Launceston took on Springvale a decade ago, and did well despite losing...the Devils during their worst season beat West Adelaide, and they were arguably no better than Clarence or Launceston today...

 

[Gibbke]

Thats why tassie needs more teams in the Foxtel Cup.

Who cares if they get smashed? so did East Coast and "that was fantastic for the game." But it won't happen because every time we hear a mumur out of tassie the afl just kicks them right back under the carpet.

The worst thing that could happen is a bunch of teams coming in because of a "divine rights" argument, and being unceremoniously slaughtered.

Why not include the NT Thunder as a rep side, and the NEAFL East, NEAFL North and Tasmanian rep teams to make up the numbers against established Big 3 sides...? 4 WA, 4 SA, 4 Vic and 4 others...there's a massive standard issue with the last 4, and it can't help the comp...

 

[pablo668]

Wasn't dissing WA, just using that game by way of comparison...SD had a choice that night, but chose to protest...some of the non Big 3 sides don't have that luxury when it comes to losing margins...

Yeah mate it's all good. I just like to be accurate when it comes to the history of the game.
I really wish Toddy didn't do what he did. I feel it put WA footy (League level at least) in a bad light for a very long time.

 

[Kingpin]

The bottom couple in the TSL aren't competitive, but the premier team in Tassie over the last decade or so has been very strong. I'd back Clarence to handle almost anyone in the NEAFL outside the AFL reserves and maybe the Thunder. Any local side with a lot of imports (usually this means Southport) would also be very tough to beat. North Launceston took on Springvale a decade ago, and did well despite losing...the Devils during their worst season beat West Adelaide, and they were arguably no better than Clarence or Launceston today...

True. It'll be interesting to see how Launceston goes in it next year (I think they'll beat Clarence in the final this year).
Actually, imagine if Devonport (the team that lost the 2010 TSL Grand Final to Clarence) were admitted as a second TSL side in the comp for this year?
A couple of months after that loss they found themselves in a right pickle, $525,000 in debt, no supporters, no members and three quarters of their playing list walked out as well as their coach and board.
Would've been a disaster of biblical proportions. Would've meant egg on the face of Scott Wade and AwFuL Tasmania which I'm all for, however!
Someone mentioned earlier about including the SFL premiership team, most likely ex-TFL club, New Norfolk.
That wouldn't work because their players are not interested in stepping up to TSL level let alone at Foxtel Cup level, most of their playing list are 30-something part-timers who've gone back to Boyer to try and win a few flags together before retirement. Not only that but that club harbours no real high ambitions like it did in their TFL days. Would get clobbered.

 

[2010premier]

The bottom couple in the TSL aren't competitive, but the premier team in Tassie over the last decade or so has been very strong. I'd back Clarence to handle almost anyone in the NEAFL outside the AFL reserves and maybe the Thunder. Any local side with a lot of imports (usually this means Southport) would also be very tough to beat. North Launceston took on Springvale a decade ago, and did well despite losing...the Devils during their worst season beat West Adelaide, and they were arguably no better than Clarence or Launceston today...

Mate you are living in the past. Clarence would not beat anybody in the NEAFL Northern Conference and would be whacked by the top sides. QLD beat Tassie by 100 pts in the state game last year (and kicked 29 behinds so it should have been more) and since then the comp up here has gone up about 3 notches. QLD fell 6 points short of beating WA in WA this year.

In Foxtel Cup this year NT fell 1 goal short of WAFL club East Perth, and clearly would have won a full length game comfortably. Labrador admittedly got flogged (in a similar manner to Clarence) by one of the SANFL sides but they are sitting 4-12 this year and sent down a second string side which annoyed the hell out of me by the way.

Just to let you know that the Brisbane Lions Reserves who field 16-17 listed players weekly are coming dead last up here this year and the powerhouse Southport will not play finals in 2011. Gold Coast Suns Ressies who with a longer list field 20-22 listed players weekly are coming 3rd, but all sides up here have been competitive against them.

No body denies that previously the TSL has been stronger than QAFL but not anymore. Foxtel Cup next year may reveal this.

 

[The_Reaper]

Mate you are living in the past. Clarence would not beat anybody in the NEAFL Northern Conference and would be whacked by the top sides. QLD beat Tassie by 100 pts in the state game last year (and kicked 29 behinds so it should have been more) and since then the comp up here has gone up about 3 notches. QLD fell 6 points short of beating WA in WA this year.

In Foxtel Cup this year NT fell 1 goal short of WAFL club East Perth, and clearly would have won a full length game comfortably. Labrador admittedly got flogged (in a similar manner to Clarence) by one of the SANFL sides but they are sitting 4-12 this year and sent down a second string side which annoyed the hell out of me by the way.

Just to let you know that the Brisbane Lions Reserves who field 16-17 listed players weekly are coming dead last up here this year and the powerhouse Southport will not play finals in 2011. Gold Coast Suns Ressies who with a longer list field 20-22 listed players weekly are coming 3rd, but all sides up here have been competitive against them.

No body denies that previously the TSL has been stronger than QAFL but not anymore. Foxtel Cup next year may reveal this.

Queensland played very well in the state game and are now the 4th best league in Australia, but during the state game the Sandgropers did screw around.

The QAFL is the best of the rest but still behind the big 3 leagues.

 

[2010premier]

Queensland played very well in the state game and are now the 4th best league in Australia, but during the state game the Sandgropers did screw around.

The QAFL is the best of the rest but still behind the big 3 leagues.

Fair call. Even the most diehard QLD footy supporter would conceed that there is a pretty big gap between the big 3 leagues and the NEAFL North Conference, but the massive improvement year on year up here is excellent.

 

[Kingpin]

No body denies that previously the TSL has been stronger than QAFL but not anymore. Foxtel Cup next year may reveal this.

That's correct. Little to no funding causes this.
Fifteen years ago I would say that Clarence would've beaten a QAFL club, these days, no.
The TSL is nothing but a poorly funded, pale, cheap imitation of the original TFL competition.
I've seen both competitions in their entirety and the difference between the two is stark.
In 1989 the TFL's salary cap was $200,000 for each club and this made it much simpler to attract not only quality interstate recruits but also good players across Tasmania WANTED to play at the top level.
The competition was well administered and had a plethora of sponsorship, was popular and had strong attendances with an excellent standard of football. This was pre-recession/depression and there was still a strong business presence within the state which made it much easier to attract interstate players with the lure of employment and a decent pay-packet.

In 2011 the salary cap is only $70,000. We can no longer attract quality recruits, we can no longer keep our best players in the state and generally can't bring home our former AFL-listed players to bolster the TSL because there's not the money or the jobs here any longer. The wages are not good enough to entice them home - you can't expect players to come to Tasmania and do the same job they were doing on the mainland for $30k a year less, it's unfeasable.
Sponsorship across the board is much, much lesser than 1989 as are club memberships and crowd attendances are very, very poor - in the early 90s New Norfolk's financial membership was within 2,000 of the Sydney Swans as an example.
There are also a number of players that would do extremely well at TSL level who won't play in the comp because they can earn much more and train a lot less playing in lower leagues.
The sport is ineptly administered by AFL Tasmania, they consistently fiddle around with the TSL, favour certain clubs over others in decision-making, keep certain clubs down at the expense of others and as a result, public confidence in the competition is minimal.
Having heard what the new licensing agreement requires between the TSL clubs and AFL Tasmania when the new licensing agreement comes up for changes in 2013, I think the public's confidence will be even further eroded.
The dwindling numbers of supporters have continued to be forgotten about at the expense of a few players getting drafted and the associated pats on the back Scott Wade and the rest of the muppet show will get from the AFL.

The AFL's funding of Tasmanian football is an utter insult and the fact that they've not stepped in and sorted out AFL Tasmania - the very same people they put in charge of Tasmanian football in 1999 - who have presided over one disaster after another, after another, after another during their watch is a prime example of their committment or there lack-of towards the sport here.

The NEAFL in contrast is an example of what good funding from the AFL can do in lifting standards.
What are the attendances like in the NEAFL? Are they close to what the QAFL were pulling in the 1980's?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I've seen both competitions in their entirety and the difference between the two is stark.
In 1989 the TFL's salary cap was $200,000 for each club and this made it much simpler to attract not only quality interstate recruits but also good players across Tasmania WANTED to play at the top level.


In 2011 the salary cap is only $70,000. We can no longer attract quality recruits, we can no longer keep our best players in the state and generally can't bring home our former AFL-listed players to bolster the TSL because there's not the money or the jobs here any longer. The wages are not good enough to entice them home - you can't expect players to come to Tasmania and do the same job they were doing on the mainland for $30k a year less, it's unfeasable.

This is very much the case, and even worse for the north-western clubs than for others - because of the extra travel demands and the relative strength of the NTFL (salary cap last I checked $60k). With a miniscule gap between local footy and state footy payments, the TSL clubs might be able to get the top one or two players but the next half dozen will get paid more, and have to work less, playing locally.
Even in the TFL the coastal clubs struggled to keep players and that was with a substantial difference in salary caps.

I would add that the decade without a state competition also hurt the standard badly, with only what was really bush league footy available unless playing for the Devils (and by the end you had to be Hobart based to do that - not to mention the North alignment, which was horrible for for North and undermined the very reason the Devils were supposedly set up in the first place, just so Wade's ego could be boosted by hob-nobbing with AFL "names").
During that period there were around 20 clubs all trying to pretend they were top tier in a small population itself skewed higher than others in the nation. Ten is probably too many for a good standard, even if everything else was fixed, but the last thing the TSL needs is chopping and changing clubs again - that helped kill the old state league.

Or, at least that's how it seems from a distance.

 

[mighty tiges]

Next year's competition is likely to include the top four WAFL sides from 2011 after Swan Districts, Claremont and East Perth represented WA this year.

The AFL announced last week that public interest and television audiences had led to a decision to continue the fledgling interstate knockout competition for the next five years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/sport/9992180/players-clubs-back-cup-concept/

So next year could be:

4 x WAFL
4 x VFL (including defending champion Willy)
3 x SANFL
4 x NEAFL (top 2 from each conference)
1 x TFL

 

[madmug]

Next year's competition is likely to include the top four WAFL sides from 2011 after Swan Districts, Claremont and East Perth represented WA this year.

The AFL announced last week that public interest and television audiences had led to a decision to continue the fledgling interstate knockout competition for the next five years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/sport/9992180/players-clubs-back-cup-concept/

So next year could be:

4 x WAFL
4 x VFL (including defending champion Willy)
3 x SANFL
4 x NEAFL (top 2 from each conference)
1 x TFL

All this discussion begs the question, what's the Foxtel cup all about?.
I thought it was to expose second tear teams & players to a better competition. Thus some of them get the opportunity to shine & maybe get a look in to getting an AFL contract, guys over 18 who missed through the original draft system, or developed a year or two later.
Really sitting their & watching Williamstown win it with 15 players ALREADY in the AFL system was a joke. I thought Claremont guys would have gotten more out of the game in terms of exposure & learning than Willy. Their should be a maximum of 3-4 AFL list guys in each team. Otherwise whats the point of it????? Teams here like Clarence & Launceston (& Burnie North Hobart Glenorchy etc) have no AFL List guys but have some lads who would learn & improve from the competition. To play them against teams with 15 full time AFL list guys would prove nothing but an ego boost for players already in the system.
So dont worry too much about the structure of the competition, worry more about the structure of the teams in it. IMOH

 

[pablo668]

All this discussion begs the question, what's the Foxtel cup all about?.
I thought it was to expose second tear teams & players to a better competition. Thus some of them get the opportunity to shine & maybe get a look in to getting an AFL contract, guys over 18 who missed through the original draft system, or developed a year or two later.
Really sitting their & watching Williamstown win it with 15 players ALREADY in the AFL system was a joke. I thought Claremont guys would have gotten more out of the game in terms of exposure & learning than Willy. Their should be a maximum of 3-4 AFL list guys in each team. Otherwise whats the point of it????? Teams here like Clarence & Launceston (& Burnie North Hobart Glenorchy etc) have no AFL List guys but have some lads who would learn & improve from the competition. To play them against teams with 15 full time AFL list guys would prove nothing but an ego boost for players already in the system.
So dont worry too much about the structure of the competition, worry more about the structure of the teams in it. IMOH

Yeah good points there.

Claremont does have a few AFL listed players in it's squad, but we don't get them all the time and when we do have them we don't always play them in the firsts....
I was very impressed with Williamstown but it does kind of defeat the purpose of the comp. Mind you, if state level teams could play teams like Williamstowns on a more regular basis it may help them play to a higher level.....

 

[The_Reaper]

Yeah good points there.

Claremont does have a few AFL listed players in it's squad, but we don't get them all the time and when we do have them we don't always play them in the firsts....
I was very impressed with Williamstown but it does kind of defeat the purpose of the comp. Mind you, if state level teams could play teams like Williamstowns on a more regular basis it may help them play to a higher level.....

Port Melbourne being the case in point.

 

[pablo668]

Actually I'd like to see Claremont play some of the more notable state league clubs in the land, like Norwood or Centrals, Port Melbourne or Southport.
It'd be interesting to see how many they'd win.

 

[The_Reaper]

Actually I'd like to see Claremont play some of the more notable state league clubs in the land, like Norwood or Centrals, Port Melbourne or Southport.
It'd be interesting to see how many they'd win.

Claremont would flog Southport and get beaten by Port Melbourne.

I'm not sure about the strength of the top SANFL teams, compared to the top WAFL, but I'd expect Centrals to defeat Claremont.

A team that can make 11 straight GFs is a good team.

 

[pablo668]

Claremont would flog Southport and get beaten by Port Melbourne.

I'm not sure about the strength of the top SANFL teams, compared to the top WAFL, but I'd expect Centrals to defeat Claremont.

A team that can make 11 straight GFs is a good team.

That's what I was thinking myself.

 

[McCavity]

Centrals and Norwood are clearly the two best sides in the SANFL this year. If the finals go according to form, you'd expect they would fight it out on GF day. I hope that both clubs avail themselves for this comp next year, so that we can see the best that the SANFL has to offer, rather than lower ranked sides.

 

[Dazb86]

The AFL listed guys in the Williamstown team are hardly world beaters. They are either under developed kids or list cloggers that can't make the best 22 at AFL level anyway.

 

[The_Reaper]

The AFL listed guys in the Williamstown team are hardly world beaters. They are either under developed kids or list cloggers that can't make the best 22 at AFL level anyway.

As opposed to guys who can't make the best 44 on an AFL list anyway?

Pro players against semi-pro?

AFL listed players should never have being allowed in the first place- and I was advocating this as soon as the concept was announced.

 

[Kram]

Have to agree that there should at least be some sort of limit to the amount of AFL listed players that can be used.

 

[Stratford]

My view would be that the competing teams should be:
Defending champion - 1
VFL - top 3
WAFL - top 3
SANFL - top 3
NEAFL (N) - top 2
NEAFL (E) - top 2
Tasmania - top 2

(If the defending champion qualifies twice then another team from its league goes in.)

The should be no qualifying (and therefore complicating) rounds, BUT the AFL should provide some appearence money and a decent amount of prize money for the winners of the Foxtel Cup and the runners up.

Seeding of the competition could be considered.