JFK Assassination: What is the Truth?

[Baltimore Jack]

Are you saying say both the shot that hit from front through front windscreen in throat and from front right side to head were from grassy knoll?

Not two different locations?

Interesting interview of Secret Service expert, Vince Palarmara, although spoiled a bit by over talking.

Windscreen evidence from around one hour.

Yes I am, the throat shot was the 1st shot (Zapruder shows him reaching for his throat before anything else happens, even to Connolly) and the fatal head shot from the front was probably the 3rd (or even the 4th) shot

Do you have an alternate sequence of shots?
Keen to hear it, I like to research all scenarios

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Just bought my old man this book.

It will really get you thinking

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Just bought my old man this book.

Can I borrow it when he finishes reading it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The Bethesda Naval hospital did the autopsy. It was Jacqueline Kennedy's choice and therefore free from corrupt interference. Major findings were that the head shot came from the rear and created a cavity also in right hemisphere. The throat shot also through back and exit throat. Knot laboratories aligned this with back/ neck shot but not connelly. No magic bullet then

At the time of impact of the kill shot JFK was close to losing consciousness and head was tilted forward and slighting to the left.

At x on the street the grassy knoll was at an angle of approx 30% to the right of JFK. That allows us to conclude that as a question physics the exit path of the kill shot had to pass across the brain to the left hemisphere if it came from there. It didn't. The puff of smoke at that location missed entirely which is consistent with autopsy

There was a bullet hole in the windscreen . It was close to far left perimeter of the windscreen and almost within an inch of the top. It came from the far left and almost at ground level. The location was triangulated to be across both Elm, main and commerce in a vacant parking paddock used for railway I think

A secret service agent has recently came forward and said he was the person removing the bullet from seat near JFK and placing in on a guerney at hospital

So the shots fired were in no particular order

1 shot that missed and clipped curb hitting bystander
2 shot from 6th floor book depository hitting JFK in back and exiting neck
3 shot from ground level across elm/ main and commerce in a railway parking lot hitting windscreen and embedding in seat
4 shot from somewhere behind hitting Connelly
5 shot from behind fence at grassy knoll that missed entirely
6 head shot from 6th floor book depository

The only person that could have pulled all the strings is LBJ. His personal hitman was Mac Wallace whose finger print was found on a carton at 6th floor. He was a murderer and a crack ex military shooter. Oswald was a patsy

Two shooters had silencers. The person who shot connelly and the windscreen shooter..So 4 shots heard

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The Bethesda Naval hospital did the autopsy. It was Jacqueline Kennedy's choice and therefore free from corrupt interference. Major findings were that the head shot came from the rear and created a cavity also in right hemisphere. The throat shot also through back and exit throat. Knot laboratories aligned this with back/ neck shot but not connelly. No magic bullet then

That's not what the doctors at the Parkland Hospital trauma unit say.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

That's not what the doctors at the Parkland Hospital trauma unit say.

They were doctors who didn't complete an autopsy .....they had a ballistic wound expert helping them in the proper autopsy.from a naval hospital

 

[BlueE]

The Bethesda Naval hospital did the autopsy. It was Jacqueline Kennedy's choice and therefore free from corrupt interference. Major findings were that the head shot came from the rear and created a cavity also in right hemisphere. The throat shot also through back and exit throat. Knot laboratories aligned this with back/ neck shot but not connelly. No magic bullet then

At the time of impact of the kill shot JFK was close to losing consciousness and head was tilted forward and slighting to the left.

At x on the street the grassy knoll was at an angle of approx 30% to the right of JFK. That allows us to conclude that as a question physics the exit path of the kill shot had to pass across the brain to the left hemisphere if it came from there. It didn't. The puff of smoke at that location missed entirely which is consistent with autopsy

There was a bullet hole in the windscreen . It was close to far left perimeter of the windscreen and almost within an inch of the top. It came from the far left and almost at ground level. The location was triangulated to be across both Elm, main and commerce in a vacant parking paddock used for railway I think

A secret service agent has recently came forward and said he was the person removing the bullet from seat near JFK and placing in on a guerney at hospital

So the shots fired were in no particular order

1 shot that missed and clipped curb hitting bystander
2 shot from 6th floor book depository hitting JFK in back and exiting neck
3 shot from ground level across elm/ main and commerce in a railway parking lot hitting windscreen and embedding in seat
4 shot from somewhere behind hitting Connelly
5 shot from behind fence at grassy knoll that missed entirely
6 head shot from 6th floor book depository

The only person that could have pulled all the strings is LBJ. His personal hitman was Mac Wallace whose finger print was found on a carton at 6th floor. He was a murderer and a crack ex military shooter. Oswald was a patsy

Two shooters had silencers. The person who shot connelly and the windscreen shooter..So 4 shots heard

No it was not Jacquie Kennedy's choice! LOL.

Subject to military orders and overseen by one of the suspected conspirators. Many in the military hated JFK for the Bay of Pigs and negotiating with Russia, instead of war.

Throat shot an entry wound as the doctors now admit.

Gerald Ford changed the autopsy diagram to move a shallow R shoulder entry to back of neck and say that was an entry wound that exited throat and carried on changing direction a few times mid flight to also hit Connelly. Twice. The 'magic bullet' has now been thoroughly discredited.

Agree with shot in windscreen that had to come from front. Throat also from front and probably same location if there were two shooters at each.

Agree with some using suppressors, which may have resulted in loss of power and shallow back of shoulder entry. This shot was flat trajectory and almost directly behind as photo shows many in crowd looked back and LBJ secret service agents reacted by diving on him. Second floor Dal-Tex building.

There was no shot to back of neck.

Right side of head from grassy knoll.

Three shots hit JFK.

Connelly's shots from School book depository, possibly roof.

 

[BlueE]

Yes I am, the throat shot was the 1st shot (Zapruder shows him reaching for his throat before anything else happens, even to Connolly) and the fatal head shot from the front was probably the 3rd (or even the 4th) shot

Do you have an alternate sequence of shots?
Keen to hear it, I like to research all scenarios

I agree with the sequence, but adding a front location for throat and windscreen.

Back of shoulder very close to or just after throat.

But there was a windscreen shot from Infront as well as throat. I'm not exactly sure where Angry Bull is saying, but sounds but I'd think near underpass where they could quickly escape to railway years.

I think it's hard to separate the shots exactly, as some apparently did have suppressors and some were missing targets.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

They were doctors who didn't complete an autopsy .....they had a ballistic wound expert helping them in the proper autopsy.from a naval hospital

They're trauma surgeons, you don't think they can differentiate between bullet entry and exit wounds? Or when a quarter of the rear skull is missing and the brain is dropping out?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I agree with the sequence, but adding a front location for throat and windscreen.

Back of shoulder very close to or just after throat.

But there was a windscreen shot from Infront as well as throat. I'm not exactly sure where Angry Bull is saying, but sounds but I'd think near underpass where they could quickly escape to railway years.

I think it's hard to separate the shots exactly, as some apparently did have suppressors and some were missing targets.

View attachment 1922209

Yep, I get your point.
I think all the very latest research (from about 2012 on-wards) say pretty much a similar thing now, with only slight variations

Even the HSCoA in 1979 said there was 4 shots, so the use of Suppressors is a very good point and would account for the HSCoA not going with 6 shots as most researchers do now (I have even seen some research saying 7 shots)

It was the CIA in conjunction with the Secret Service and Military who order the autopsy being moved to Washington.
In Dallas they had no control over the narrative, which they lost anyway when 13 Doctors/Nurses said the exact opposite of the Warren Commissions findings on the 'Official" Autopsy
Some were even murdered for saying so

There is one very interesting point about it though.
LBJ was very much in favour of moving Kennedy's body out of Dallas

LBJ was a crook, who gave orders to assassinate most of his rivals, which he had been doing since the early 1950's
I very much suspect he was involved (a the very least he knew, sat back and did nothing) in Kennedy's assassination

 

[Baltimore Jack]

They're trauma surgeons, you don't think they can differentiate between bullet entry and exit wounds? Or when a quarter of the rear skull is missing and the brain is dropping out?

You left out ....."with vast experience treating trauma associated with gun shots".....after all Parkland was the hospital in Dallas to treat gun shot wounds

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There is zero doubt JFK was murdered by a major plot involving multiple assassins and others orchestrating lies to hide evidence. I don't accept that a shot from grassy knoll hit JFK. As I've pointed out if you identify the point on the street when the shot occurred and work an angle to the grassy knoll it's about 30% perhaps more.. At that angle it's impossible to leave the left hemisphere of his brain intact especially given he'd tilted his head forward and to left. The shot missed.

If the neck shot was an entry wound than an exit wound then where is the bullet?OR the exit wound? Further, if the back shot was a superficial wound then why wasn't the bullet retrieved from his back? The logical conclusion is the autopsy was right. Two shots both from rear.

As regards Jackie selecting Bethesda I've just watched a program talking about JFKs body removal and tracing events right up to autopsy and to body in state. The program most definitively suggested two choices were offered to JK a public hospital and Bethesda. She CHOSE the latter because JFK had been in the navy at one point and she said "it would be nice to have it done there " because of that fact

The autopsy doctors and Parkland doctors can't both be right. The doctors were trying to save his life. Once he was pronounced dead the secret service wanted to remove.the body and had an argument with coroner who was refusing to release the body. They had 90 min to attempt saving him ,declaring him dead before releasing him. The autopsy team had like 6 hrs and was specifically looking at post mortem considerations. Parklands got it wrong.

Knot laboratories was able to scan the entirety of Dealy plaza and recreate the shot that produced the back wound and exit neck wound..The back wound was a few inches down and an inch or two off centre. That's consistent with tracking from Book depository as their recreation showed.

Everyone has got fixated with grassy knoll sniper. There was one and he fired
and missed. Otherwise it would be the left hemisphere of JFK brain decimated.

 

[BlueE]

Yep, I get your point.
I think all the very latest research (from about 2012 on-wards) say pretty much a similar thing now, with only slight variations

Even the HSCoA in 1979 said there was 4 shots, so the use of Suppressors is a very good point and would account for the HSCoA not going with 6 shots as most researchers do now (I have even seen some research saying 7 shots)

It was the CIA in conjunction with the Secret Service and Military who order the autopsy being moved to Washington.
In Dallas they had no control over the narrative, which they lost anyway when 13 Doctors/Nurses said the exact opposite of the Warren Commissions findings on the 'Official" Autopsy
Some were even murdered for saying so

There is one very interesting point about it though.
LBJ was very much in favour of moving Kennedy's body out of Dallas

LBJ was a crook, who gave orders to assassinate most of his rivals, which he had been doing since the early 1950's
I very much suspect he was involved (a the very least he knew, sat back and did nothing) in Kennedy's assassination

The more I find out about LBJ, the more I realise he was a bigger criminal (about to be and murderer through at least his favourite assassin Wallace, than Bush snr and Cheney.

He had to be actively involved in the planning and giving the 'Go'. He and Connelly twisted JFK's arm to travel to Texas in again November after a visit only about six months before. According to Jacquie's memoirs, JFK had a long and loud argument with him the night before, because LBJ didn't want Connelly sitting with him on the parade route and was telling JFK someone else (Yardsborough?). JFK refused.

He got both Kennedy's and sacrificed over 58,000 American (plus over 500 Australian) troops in the Vietnam war.

Agree with you about the autopsy and because the Kennedy's were unhappy about how JFK's was done they wanted the best Drs and specialists to document RFK's autopsy.

This happened but with corrupt a LA investigation with cops and FBI, the truth was suppressed for a long time.

 

[BlueE]

There is zero doubt JFK was murdered by a major plot involving multiple assassins and others orchestrating lies to hide evidence. I don't accept that a shot from grassy knoll hit JFK. As I've pointed out if you identify the point on the street when the shot occurred and work an angle to the grassy knoll it's about 30% perhaps more.. At that angle it's impossible to leave the left hemisphere of his brain intact especially given he'd tilted his head forward and to left. The shot missed.

If the neck shot was an entry wound than an exit wound then where is the bullet?OR the exit wound? Further, if the back shot was a superficial wound then why wasn't the bullet retrieved from his back? The logical conclusion is the autopsy was right. Two shots both from rear.

As regards Jackie selecting Bethesda I've just watched a program talking about JFKs body removal and tracing events right up to autopsy and to body in state. The program most definitively suggested two choices were offered to JK a public hospital and Bethesda. She CHOSE the latter because JFK had been in the navy at one point and she said "it would be nice to have it done there " because of that fact

The autopsy doctors and Parkland doctors can't both be right. The doctors were trying to save his life. Once he was pronounced dead the secret service wanted to remove.the body and had an argument with coroner who was refusing to release the body. They had 90 min to attempt saving him ,declaring him dead before releasing him. The autopsy team had like 6 hrs and was specifically looking at post mortem considerations. Parklands got it wrong.

Knot laboratories was able to scan the entirety of Dealy plaza and recreate the shot that produced the back wound and exit neck wound..The back wound was a few inches down and an inch or two off centre. That's consistent with tracking from Book depository as their recreation showed.

Everyone has got fixated with grassy knoll sniper. There was one and he fired
and missed. Otherwise it would be the left hemisphere of JFK brain decimated.

His head clearly jerked backwards and to the left and his brains/skull that Jacquie retrieved ended up on the back left of the car boot.

Shot came from the right, entered right side of skull and exited back of head.

It's possible he was hit on the back right shoulder just after the head shot which pushed him forward.

Was it reported Jacquie said that? She didn't say that in her own words in her memoir, as far as I'm aware. She did say she thought LBJ was responsible, which was reported in a magazine that had an advanced copy, but then Jacquie stopped that chapter from being published.

None of the doctors interviewed at Parkland said there was a choice and the SS just grabbed his body and had a gun if anyone dissented.

He was pronounced dead almost as soon as they got him in trauma room 2. He'd had a tracheotomy done before entering the trauma room as he was still breathing, but likely to be a reflex as no one had lifted the head and seen the fatal wound and stopped breathing almost as seen as he got to the room. Jacquie asked for a priest to give het last rites and one was found but JFK was already dead, although they may have waited until he was given the last rites before announcing it.

There had plenty of time to examine the wounds and they announced to the waiting press about the throat shot being an entrance wound. It was Parkland's jurisdiction and responsibility for the autopsy and they were not Dr's under military orders before their Hippocratic oaths.

I don't think anyone here is fixated by the shooter on the grassy knoll and I wouldn't even know any names.

The only wounds consistent with the height and direction of the Tex Book Depositary was Connolly's. I can get details.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

His head clearly jerked backwards and to the left and his brains/skull that Jacquie retrieved ended up on the back left of the car boot.

Shot came from the right, entered right side of skull and exited back of head.

It's possible he was hit on the back right shoulder just after the head shot which pushed him forward.

Was it reported Jacquie said that? She didn't say that in her own words in her memoir, as far as I'm aware. She did say she thought LBJ was responsible, which was reported in a magazine that had an advanced copy, but then Jacquie stopped that chapter from being published.

None of the doctors interviewed at Parkland said there was a choice and the SS just grabbed his body and had a gun if anyone dissented.

He was pronounced dead almost as soon as they got him in trauma room 2. He'd had a tracheotomy done before entering the trauma room as he was still breathing, but likely to be a reflex as no one had lifted the head and seen the fatal wound and stopped breathing almost as seen as he got to the room. Jacquie asked for a priest to give het last rites and one was found but JFK was already dead, although they may have waited until he was given the last rites before announcing it.

There had plenty of time to examine the wounds and they announced to the waiting press about the throat shot being an entrance wound. It was Parkland's jurisdiction and responsibility for the autopsy and they were not Dr's under military orders before their Hippocratic oaths.

I don't think anyone here is fixated by the shooter on the grassy knoll and I wouldn't even know any names.

The only wounds consistent with the height and direction of the Tex Book Depositary was Connolly's. I can get details.

Pretty much spot on

 

[Angry Red Bull]

His head clearly jerked backwards and to the left and his brains/skull that Jacquie retrieved ended up on the back left of the car boot.

Shot came from the right, entered right side of skull and exited back of head.

It's possible he was hit on the back right shoulder just after the head shot which pushed him forward.

Was it reported Jacquie said that? She didn't say that in her own words in her memoir, as far as I'm aware. She did say she thought LBJ was responsible, which was reported in a magazine that had an advanced copy, but then Jacquie stopped that chapter from being published.

None of the doctors interviewed at Parkland said there was a choice and the SS just grabbed his body and had a gun if anyone dissented.

He was pronounced dead almost as soon as they got him in trauma room 2. He'd had a tracheotomy done before entering the trauma room as he was still breathing, but likely to be a reflex as no one had lifted the head and seen the fatal wound and stopped breathing almost as seen as he got to the room. Jacquie asked for a priest to give het last rites and one was found but JFK was already dead, although they may have waited until he was given the last rites before announcing it.

There had plenty of time to examine the wounds and they announced to the waiting press about the throat shot being an entrance wound. It was Parkland's jurisdiction and responsibility for the autopsy and they were not Dr's under military orders before their Hippocratic oaths.

I don't think anyone here is fixated by the shooter on the grassy knoll and I wouldn't even know any names.

The only wounds consistent with the height and direction of the Tex Book Depositary was Connolly's. I can get details.

Back and to the left has pretty much now been entirely debunked by science to do with ejecta patterns and to do with neurological response to head shots. Detailed science reports on both

A bullet entering from JFKs right at 30% angle can't enter right frontal and then go left to back of head. The path would follow the original angle then fragment within the head across the left hemisphere. Has to by physics

So from the Drs at parkland the neck wound was a entry wound which had no exit and no bullet. The back wound was a shallow wound which likewise had no bullet. That just doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense it's questionable.

I've seen multiple digital recreations ( most recent is Knot Laboratories) which align the back shot and neck exit. I've also seen another one which aligns head shot from that same vantage and causing the head damage it does BECAUSE his head was tilted forward and to left. By doing that the cavity is all right hemisphere and upper no face involvement

There are always angles influencing the effect of shot.. The angle from shooter to car. The angle of JFK head position at time of shot. These have an impact and will determine feasibility. The angle from grassy knoll can't have created the head trauma that it did therefore it missed.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Back and to the left has pretty much now been entirely debunked by science to do with ejecta patterns and to do with neurological response to head shots. Detailed science reports on both

That is not only untrue, the research has in fact further strengthen the 'front on' head shot

I have no idea where you are getting your information but I have read over 50 books on the Kennedy Assassination and not one of them supports your view (excluding of course the CIA's man, Vincent Bugliosi)

Could I suggest you read "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W Douglas.
Often considered the best book ever written on the subject

 

[Angry Red Bull]

That is not only untrue, the research has in fact further strengthen the 'front on' head shot

I have no idea where you are getting your information but I have read over 50 books on the Kennedy Assassination and not one of them supports your view (excluding of course the CIA's man, Vincent Bugliosi)

Could I suggest you read "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W Douglas.
Often considered the best book ever written on the subject

Thanks for that. I will have a look. Would love to read a good book on subject for sure. I will try and find relevant science papers I mentioned. Compelling

I don't parrot any one book on the topic. Never will. I do look for online articles and science papers that discuss particular elements of the assassination myself that interest me , assess their credentials, and and merge outcomes to help find supporting evidence of what happened in entirety. There is an amazing about our there, some rubbish but many useful

Sure if a head shot was front on then it's physics allows you to say possible because trauma was all right hemisphere . There is an X on Elm at the instant of kill shot and you can run a line as I did to evaluate degree angle for the grassy knoll. You can do that yourself. Plenty of information to allow you too. The angle is a 30° angle. Because that shot was the last and the car had closed the gap to grassy knoll location It was no longer front on at all .It was 30° angle at that point. Being that angle it's a physical impossibility that the shot (if it hit JFK) would pass through only the right hemisphere especially given JFK head tilted forward and to left at instant of shot. It's just not possible. JK has also leaned into JFK because of grave concern at him seemingly going semi unconscious. Her having done that at the moment of shot meant she was in real danger of being shot herself. I therefore suspect the grassy knoll sniper pulled his shot to the left and missed entirely..

LBJ information

LBJ was in real problems at the time. His corruption was unraveling. He was going to be replaced as running mate because LBJ and Kennedy's had come to hate each other. If he didn't get to be president he'd end up in jail. He had a small window. He was Texan and the very wealthy Texan oil millionaires were in trouble of losing their oil depletion allowance which had lined their pockets ( JFK foreshadowed getting rid of it).




LBJ implicated here

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Gunshot-wound dynamics model for John F. Kennedy assassination

U.S. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated while riding in an open motorcade by a sniper in Dallas, Texas on 22 November 1963. A civilian bystander, Mr. Abraham Zapruder, filmed the motorcade with a 8-mm home movie camera as it drove through Dealey ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not going to read it ALL again but discusses it being a rear shot not a frontal shot and the science behind it entirely consistent with what we observed

 

[Angry Red Bull]

https://engrxiv.org/preprint/download/1579/version/2392/3244/2380

 

[BlueE]

Back and to the left has pretty much now been entirely debunked by science to do with ejecta patterns and to do with neurological response to head shots. Detailed science reports on both

A bullet entering from JFKs right at 30% angle can't enter right frontal and then go left to back of head. The path would follow the original angle then fragment within the head across the left hemisphere. Has to by physics

So from the Drs at parkland the neck wound was a entry wound which had no exit and no bullet. The back wound was a shallow wound which likewise had no bullet. That just doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense it's questionable.

I've seen multiple digital recreations ( most recent is Knot Laboratories) which align the back shot and neck exit. I've also seen another one which aligns head shot from that same vantage and causing the head damage it does BECAUSE his head was tilted forward and to left. By doing that the cavity is all right hemisphere and upper no face involvement

There are always angles influencing the effect of shot.. The angle from shooter to car. The angle of JFK head position at time of shot. These have an impact and will determine feasibility. The angle from grassy knoll can't have created the head trauma that it did therefore it missed.

So they are saying close elevated grassy knoll shot missed but 1, 2 or 3 at ground level from left four times as far away, while missing Jacquie and Mrs Connelly and the SS agent driving on front left seat all obscuring JFK, or storm drain underground or at road level were responsible for the kill shot?

Questionable that position L was where the car was when head hit, so angles are wrong. IMO the possible positions for front shots are (2), if on top of overpass or on the right side under the bridge.



The other so called "proof" you posted, is rubbish in and rubbish out.

The still from the Zapruder showed brain and skull spray to the left and back. Jaquie climbed onto the back of limo and collected a part of skill or brain from back left.

The diagram they used was not accurate and had the Dal-Tex building almost removed from the picture, instead of being almost directly behind the car. See photo above for Dal-Tex building and where some agents and crowd heard or saw something.


Actual position of Dal-Tex building and they were not far past the entry, or had completely passed the School book depository building.


There was not entry to back of neck or head. Anything coming from that high and following that downward trajectory would have hit his thigh, just like Connelly.

One of the original interviews of Parkland Dr who said throat was an entry wound, said he saw a bullet when they performed the tracheotomy. Presume they took it out then.

 

[The Punter]

The idea that Connolly was in on the plot when he would clearly be in the line of fire is preposterous.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The idea that Connolly was in on the plot when he would clearly be in the line of fire is preposterous.

Connolly has on several occasions stated publicly that there was a conspiracy to assassinate the President

 

[The Punter]

Connolly has on several occasions stated publicly that there was a conspiracy to assassinate the President

Yes, and his testimony in various places never changed about the order of shots and the amount, which all aid the case for LHO's defence.

But he was not part of the conspiracy.

 

[BlueE]

Yes, and his testimony in various places never changed about the order of shots and the amount, which all aid the case for LHO's defence.

But he was not part of the conspiracy.

This is an interesting look at Connally, his background and connection to LBJ. "victim or conspirator".

Edit: Go to around 1.37 for best summary about how Connally ended up in the car with JFK.

Connally represented the conservative democrats faction that Kennedy needed to get support from and he wanted to be seen with him in the motorcade.

According to Jacquie in her biography LBJ had JFK a very loud argument the night before about whether Connally or another Texas rep, Yarborough (a big supporter and similar politics to JFK) should be in the limo with him. JFK insisted Connally and won teh argument.

Connally did say he heard the first shot and the second shot got him, he thought it was a conspiracy and "They're going to kill us all"