Doesn’t make it right. Aussie rules is not soccer. Pass.Then they would be motivated to play brilliant football to get back up into the top division. it is happening right now around the world in thousands of leagues.
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Doesn’t make it right. Aussie rules is not soccer. Pass.Then they would be motivated to play brilliant football to get back up into the top division. it is happening right now around the world in thousands of leagues.
It 'works' in soccer because no salary cap or squad limit means the biggest clubs with the most supporters almost never get relegated.
Sounds like a horrible existence for the club and fans.
Doesn’t make it right. Aussie rules is not soccer. Pass.
He was talking about conferences not relegation.
There is a case for conferences which are effectively just a big league managed differently.
As for promotion and relegation there is plenty of it in Australian Football - just not at elite level.
The lower the level then the greater the impact of one player - as in soccer.
Both the AFL and NFL have equalisation measures like the draft.
This provides competitiveness. Remove the draft and then the games become more one-sided and less interesting.
This is why the AFL and NFL are so successful with attendances.
Even Australian soccer doesn't have promotion/relegation so it cannot be a good structure for Australia. USA, Canada, N.Z. etc.
Absolutely FALSE.
I know why people say this but it is absolutely false logic.
People look at the presentation of AFL, they see a degradation in the presentation of AFL and they deduce that the "quality" is down.
When people think in terms of quality, that implies standard and the conclusion
that the standard is down because the talent is down and the talent is down because of the "dilution" of talent.
The real situation is that the visual presentation is down, due to the increase in defensive strategies, the increase in defensive pressure
and the increase in pressure overall.
Australian Football participation continues to increase, increasing the pool of available players.
Australian Football coaching, training and health continues to increase, increasing the skill of available players.
Because AFL players are of such high standards it is extremely difficult for the best to shine.
If you want to increase the spectacle of then it would indeed be a good idea to dilute the current pool of players
by introducing new teams requiring more players. Then the natural champions and the learned champions would stand out more.
Remember the good old day? The good old days had the champions and the champions stood out. Scoring was a lot more frequent.
It's impossible to undo the knowledge of defensive measures but it could be overcome.
You only have to watch the WAFL finals to see great football, great football that isn't at AFL "standard".
The old VFA had promotion and relegation, so do the amateur footy leagues, at least they do in Western Australia.
you're talking about amateur leagues where it's in the interests of everyone to have teams not get smashed. It doesn't matter much to an ammos club whether they're playing in D grade or E grade.
And that doesn't apply to the AFL or any other elite competition?
Promotion/relegation works where there is a constant state of flux
but in elite competitions where teams are more rigid then equalisation measures works better.
Lol, you're talking about amateur leagues where it's in the interests of everyone to have teams not get smashed. It doesn't matter much to an ammos club whether they're playing in D grade or E grade.
Works? What professional leagues with promotion and relegation have competitive balance?
Pos | Team | Pld | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Qualification or relegation |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Slavia Prague | 30 | 22 | 6 | 2 | 58 | 10 | +48 | 72 | Qualification for the championship group |
2 | Viktoria Plzeň | 30 | 20 | 6 | 4 | 60 | 22 | +38 | 66 | |
3 | Sparta Prague | 30 | 14 | 8 | 8 | 55 | 35 | +20 | 50 | |
4 | Jablonec | 30 | 14 | 7 | 9 | 46 | 41 | +5 | 49 | |
5 | Slovan Liberec | 30 | 14 | 5 | 11 | 50 | 38 | +12 | 47 | |
6 | Baník Ostrava | 30 | 12 | 9 | 9 | 42 | 34 | +8 | 45 | |
7 | České Budějovice | 30 | 13 | 4 | 13 | 46 | 45 | +1 | 43 | Qualification for the Europa League play-offs |
8 | Bohemians 1905 | 30 | 12 | 6 | 12 | 38 | 41 | −3 | 42[a] | |
9 | Slovácko | 30 | 11 | 9 | 10 | 35 | 35 | 0 | 42[a] | |
10 | Mladá Boleslav | 30 | 11 | 7 | 12 | 48 | 52 | −4 | 40 | |
11 | Sigma Olomouc | 30 | 8 | 12 | 10 | 36 | 37 | −1 | 36 | Qualification for the relegation group |
12 | Teplice | 30 | 7 | 10 | 13 | 29 | 49 | −20 | 31 | |
13 | Fastav Zlín | 30 | 7 | 6 | 17 | 25 | 47 | −22 | 27 | |
14 | Karviná | 30 | 5 | 11 | 14 | 23 | 39 | −16 | 26 | |
15 | Opava | 30 | 5 | 8 | 17 | 16 | 47 | −31 | 23 | |
16 | Příbram | 30 | 5 | 6 | 19 | 19 | 54 | −35 | 21 |
I think an ambitious amateur club would much prefer to be in A-grade rather than B-grade. In soccer you have had one club recently, Gwelup Croatia, get promoted from the amateurs up through about six tiers to the WA Premier League.
Czech Premier League, 2019-20:
That's pretty balanced and even I would say. Ten points separated third from tenth. Bottom club won five games (some years in the 1980s St Kilda or Melbourne would have died to have achieved five wins, same with the Suns in their first few years).
Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification or relegation 1 Slavia Prague 30 22 6 2 58 10 +48 72 Qualification for the championship group 2 Viktoria Plzeň 30 20 6 4 60 22 +38 66 3 Sparta Prague 30 14 8 8 55 35 +20 50 4 Jablonec 30 14 7 9 46 41 +5 49 5 Slovan Liberec 30 14 5 11 50 38 +12 47 6 Baník Ostrava 30 12 9 9 42 34 +8 45 7 České Budějovice 30 13 4 13 46 45 +1 43 Qualification for the Europa League play-offs 8 Bohemians 1905 30 12 6 12 38 41 −3 42[a] 9 Slovácko 30 11 9 10 35 35 0 42[a] 10 Mladá Boleslav 30 11 7 12 48 52 −4 40 11 Sigma Olomouc 30 8 12 10 36 37 −1 36 Qualification for the relegation group 12 Teplice 30 7 10 13 29 49 −20 31 13 Fastav Zlín 30 7 6 17 25 47 −22 27 14 Karviná 30 5 11 14 23 39 −16 26 15 Opava 30 5 8 17 16 47 −31 23 16 Příbram 30 5 6 19 19 54 −35 21
I think an ambitious amateur club would much prefer to be in A-grade rather than B-grade.
I meant commercially. They don't need to pay players, they don't get people through the gates. I'm sure they want to win, but dropping a division (or getting promoted) doesn't have the earth shattering impact on the club that it would if an AFL club got relegated to Division 2.
In the 27 seasons of the Czech premier league, just 5 teams have won it. 23 of those years have been won by 3 clubs (the top 3 in the 19-20 table).
Not a great example of competitive balance.
os | Team | Pld | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | PPG | Promotion, qualification or relegation[a] |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Raith Rovers (C) | 28 | 15 | 8 | 5 | 49 | 33 | +16 | 53 | 1.89 | Promotion to the Championship |
2 | Falkirk | 28 | 14 | 10 | 4 | 54 | 18 | +36 | 52 | 1.86 | |
3 | Airdrieonians | 28 | 14 | 6 | 8 | 38 | 27 | +11 | 48 | 1.71 | |
4 | Montrose | 28 | 15 | 2 | 11 | 48 | 38 | +10 | 47 | 1.68 | |
5 | East Fife | 28 | 12 | 9 | 7 | 44 | 36 | +8 | 45 | 1.61 | |
6 | Dumbarton | 28 | 11 | 5 | 12 | 35 | 44 | −9 | 38 | 1.36 | |
7 | Clyde | 28 | 9 | 7 | 12 | 35 | 43 | −8 | 34 | 1.21 | |
8 | Peterhead | 27 | 7 | 5 | 15 | 30 | 44 | −14 | 26 | 0.96 | |
9 | Forfar Athletic | 28 | 6 | 6 | 16 | 26 | 47 | −21 | 24 | 0.86 | |
10 | Stranraer (R) | 27 | 2 | 10 | 15 | 28 | 57 | −29 | 16 | 0.59 |
So I don't think pro-rel automatically means uneven leagues.
Adding a Salary cap for each league would help matters too.
Bohemians (small club) beat Slavia Prague (massive club) 1-0 only last year. How many VFL clubs won flags from the mid-1960s through to the mid-1980s? Five I believe (and four if you start after 1966): Carlton, St Kilda, Richmond, Essendon, Hawthorn (no pro-rel to blame there).
But I accept the point you make about amateur clubs not having much to lose by dropping a division as compared to professional clubs.
But think about what you'd *really* be asking for when advocating for 2 divisions in the AFL.
It's called "discussion', mate,
you prefer American style cartel leagues
a new entrant can't enter a league unless a new licence is granted by the regulator.
But surely you get bored by the same teams playing each other every year?
Easy, split the current AFL league into two divisions.
I'm not your mate and if discussion is not rational then it becomes a rant or a tirade or monologue or a troll......
You see; we're NOT having a discussion you're posting nonsensical and non factual crap.
I like Australian Football and I have no problem with the way it's structured.
Australian Football was the original model of community football with community football players, playing in leagues for a championship.
All other community football followed Australian Football. RU, RL, American Football, Canadian Football and Gaelic Football all follow this original model.
Soccer is the odd football having promotion/relegation.
The EPL is also a cartel you idiot.
You see; we're NOT having a discussion you're posting meaningless nonsense since all club movements must be granted by the regulating authority.
You see; we're NOT having a discussion you're posting meaningless nonsense since all people see promoted sides as the easy-beats.
It's called history. People enjoy football teams that have a long history.
Czech Premier League, 2019-20:
That's pretty balanced and even I would say. Ten points separated third from tenth. Bottom club won five games (some years in the 1980s St Kilda or Melbourne would have died to have achieved five wins, same with the Suns in their first few years).
Pos Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification or relegation 1 Slavia Prague 30 22 6 2 58 10 +48 72 Qualification for the championship group 2 Viktoria Plzeň 30 20 6 4 60 22 +38 66 3 Sparta Prague 30 14 8 8 55 35 +20 50 4 Jablonec 30 14 7 9 46 41 +5 49 5 Slovan Liberec 30 14 5 11 50 38 +12 47 6 Baník Ostrava 30 12 9 9 42 34 +8 45 7 České Budějovice 30 13 4 13 46 45 +1 43 Qualification for the Europa League play-offs 8 Bohemians 1905 30 12 6 12 38 41 −3 42[a] 9 Slovácko 30 11 9 10 35 35 0 42[a] 10 Mladá Boleslav 30 11 7 12 48 52 −4 40 11 Sigma Olomouc 30 8 12 10 36 37 −1 36 Qualification for the relegation group 12 Teplice 30 7 10 13 29 49 −20 31 13 Fastav Zlín 30 7 6 17 25 47 −22 27 14 Karviná 30 5 11 14 23 39 −16 26 15 Opava 30 5 8 17 16 47 −31 23 16 Příbram 30 5 6 19 19 54 −35 21
Did the "colleague of mine in Adelaide" start watching soccer in the last 6 months like everyone else who makes these threads?
It 'works' in soccer because no salary cap or squad limit means the biggest clubs with the most supporters almost never get relegated.
There is no problem with creating rural or even international rounds,There isn’t really a thread dedicated to fantasy fixture ideas. So from scrolling down, this thread is the first to come up which is somewhat related.
If Tasmania comes in, and we worked out that an odd number of teams means each team needs to have an even number of games in the season to ensure all the teams play the same number, do we increase the number of games to 24, or decrease to 22?
Or, what about instead dropping to 20 games in an attempt to have a fairer fixture. Comprised of:
9 home games
9 away games
2 neutral games (2 gather rounds)
The 18 home and away games allows each team to play everyone once.
The 2 neutral games are based on final ladder position from the previous season (to again try and keep it even). Every team plays a top 10 team, and a bottom 10 team. Something like this:
1v11, 2v12, 3v13, 4v14, 5v15, 6v16, 7v17, 8v18, 9v19, 10….
1v9, 2v8, 3v7, 4v6, 10v19, 11v18, 12v17, 13v16, 14v15, 5….
And
10v5 squeezed in to one of those rounds or a random round at a neutral venue (perhaps Darwin etc).
The big pit fall is clubs are losing 2 home games from the current arrangement.