Independent doctors at every match

[longdonkey]

Also here's what was said at the time of the Aliir fine.

The AFL requires players who suffer a suspected concussion or show concussive symptoms during a match to be sent for a formal medical test. This off-field test – known as SCAT5 – takes 15 minutes and involves a club doctor identifying red flags such as loss of consciousness and vomiting, checking for signs of concussion like disorientation, and performing cognitive and concentration tests.

I think you could say that he could have suspected that he had concussion.

 

[Crankyhawk]

See. We can all post inane ramblings.

Club and AFL say one thing. BF bums know better.. With no medical degrees of course.
It's delayed concussion. Do you need a dictionary definition of 'delayed'?

Well one medical degree… and I was only posting that it needs to be independent not club doctor based.
Anyway if there was a fine it should be on Cameron for refusing the doctor instructions.. and therefore different to port where the doctors made a poor assessment

 

[Sentinel]

I disagree with you but no matter.
So back to the questions. They are part of the HIA. Saw nothing of the sort. But there's a Zapruder film out there that probably proves that they did.

I'm not surprised you disagree with me because you have no idea what you're talking about. The questions you showed are part of the SCAT6 test (Memory Assessment Maddocks Questions), not the HIA. I don't believe you understand the difference based on your posting here.

Cameron undertook a SCAT6 post game only. I'm expecting you to move the goalposts again now.

 

[sobrave]

From the AFLs own policy

Requires immediate removal from play or training for further assessment (including
SCAT5)

16. Any clinical impression or uncertainty from the club doctor that the player is not
quite right following trauma

So the club doctor had no uncertainty whatsoever that Cameron wasn't quite right, following clear head trauma? And he was able to deduce that based on running up to him and asking him if he's ok?

That is completely farcical.

I mean he also stayed down after impact, was slow to get up, rubbed the head, looked dazed... Which are all criteria in the AFLs own policy. How is their duty of care gonna look in the inevitable lawsuits from brain injured players?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

From the Geelong website about the incident. Just because you don't understand the protocol doesn't mean I'm wrong.

View attachment 1986083

So everyone watching, and I mean EVERYONE, saw what happened to Cameron and knew he had suffered head trauma and should leave the ground.

Except for Geelong's doctors and the ARC spotters (whoever the f**k they are).

And then a day later, everyone was proven correct - except for Geelong's doctors and the ARC spotters.



My god the AFL are just pathetic amateurs.

 

[longdonkey]

Little question about getting knocked out.

How long being unconscious constitutes being knocked out?

a 0.1 sec
b 0.5 sec
c 1 sec
d 2 sec
e 5 sec

and how is this tested?

 

[SC_Power]

I'm not surprised you disagree with me because you have no idea what you're talking about. The questions you showed are part of the SCAT6 test (Memory Assessment Maddocks Questions), not the HIA. I don't believe you understand the difference based on your posting here.

Cameron undertook a SCAT6 post game only. I'm expecting you to move the goalposts again now.

The post I made is from the AFL"s own protocols, regarding HIA.

Just sticking with facts

 

[Sentinel]

The post I made is from the AFL"s own protocols, regarding HIA.

Just sticking with facts

What venue are we at today?
Which half is it now?
Etc

are SCAT6 questions, not HIA questions. There's a difference which you don't understand.

 

[longdonkey]

You do realise that Port supporters are like a dog with a bone with this because we were all but called baby killers and all the apologists here would have been leading the attack against us.

I came here to make a quiet observation but the double standards of the two situations and the rhetoric is just a joke.

 

[longdonkey]

What venue are we at today?
Which half is it now?
Etc

are SCAT6 questions, not HIA questions. There's a difference which you don't understand.

Here's the AFL document

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/12/134a48f5-9206-4dd4-b88b-426dd1ea7b31/AFL-and-AFLW-Concussion-Guidelines-March-2023-FINAL-.pdf

Go to Page 6 and you will see the list under Head Injury Assessment - Removal from Play

 

[sobrave]

What I can't understand is cats fans flagellating themselves over being "absolved" by the AFL in embarrassing fashion.

It should be pretty obvious from the Liberatore situation that once again the AFL has no idea what they're doing, and the only thing they are consistent in, is inconsistency.

I would think for the most part, apart from a few lunatics, most people watching the sport want the players to have their brains looked after. We all watched the multiple replays of Cameron's head bouncing off the deck with significant force. Cameron now has a concussion. Those two things are undeniable. Wouldn't it have been in the player's best interest to protect him from further injury in the last few minutes?

All the AFL have done now is completely muddy the waters, as next time someone gets a knock all that needs to be done is for a doctor to run out and go "you right mate?" And as long as the player doesn't say "Wednesday" it's all good.

You have to leave the field immediately if there's the slightest dribble of blood, with a 0% chance of any transfusion or infection, but someone can get knocked into next week and thats all a-ok.

I don't have a problem with port getting a 100k fine for the aliir incident last year. That was atrocious. But this is almost as bad and the AFL tripped over themselves to say it's all good mate.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

What venue are we at today?
Which half is it now?
Etc

are SCAT6 questions, not HIA questions. There's a difference which you don't understand.

Doc - "What's the unit of power?"
Jezza - "Err... what?"
Doc - "He's good to go!! "


On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sentinel]

You are wrong Sentinel after calling everyone else out.

Here's the AFL document

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/12/134a48f5-9206-4dd4-b88b-426dd1ea7b31/AFL-and-AFLW-Concussion-Guidelines-March-2023-FINAL-.pdf

Go to Page 6 and you will see the list under Head Injury Assessment - Removal from Play

I'm not talking about those criteria, which I know are part of the HIA, I'm talking about the list of questions SC_Power posted earlier ("what venue are we playing at?" Etc) which are part of the SCAT6. I'm not calling everyone else out either.

Some of the questions I'm referring to are literally in my post you responded to.

 

[longdonkey]

I'm not talking about those criteria, which I know are part of the HIA, I'm talking about the list of questions SC_Power posted earlier ("what venue are we playing at?" Etc) which are part of the SCAT6. I'm not calling everyone else out either.

Some of the questions I'm referring to are literally in my post you responded to.

OK - then no issue I misunderstood.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Little question about getting knocked out.

How long being unconscious constitutes being knocked out?

a 0.1 sec
b 0.5 sec
c 1 sec
d 2 sec
e 5 sec

and how is this tested?

Being knocked out is pretty much unrelated to concussion.

You can get knocked out from a relatively gentle knock to the vagas nerve, or by blocking the carotid artery.

You'll be out cold, but have suffered no brain trauma.

Conversely, you can suffer brain trauma without being knocked out.

Anything that rattles your brain in your cerebrospinal fluid enough to hit the inside of your skull will cause brain trauma. And that often happens without actually getting knocked out.


That's why the AFL's policy and protocols are just so stupid. EVERYONE could see the impact to Cameron's head, and EVERYONE knows that regardless of whether you lose consciousness or not, that type of impact 100% will cause brain trauma.

 

[SC_Power]

I'm not talking about those criteria, which I know are part of the HIA, I'm talking about the list of questions SC_Power posted earlier ("what venue are we playing at?" Etc) which are part of the SCAT6. I'm not calling everyone else out either.

Some of the questions I'm referring to are literally in my post you responded to.

What part of "eg Fails Maddocks Questions" is ambiguous?

 

[legend166]

Does anyone have the video?

 

[longdonkey]

Being knocked out is pretty much unrelated to concussion.

You can get knocked out from a relatively gentle knock to the vagas nerve, or by blocking the carotid artery.

You'll be out cold, but have suffered no brain trauma.

Conversely, you can suffer brain trauma without being knocked out.

Anything that rattles your brain in your cerebrospinal fluid enough to hit the inside of your skull will cause brain trauma. And that often happens without actually getting knocked out.


That's why the AFL's policy and protocols are just so stupid. EVERYONE could see the impact to Cameron's head, and EVERYONE knows that regardless of whether you lose consciousness or not, that type of impact 100% will cause brain trauma.

Thanks for that explanation.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I thought there already was.

I put this in the same bracket as the blood rule.
The blood rule is currently handled fairly poorly. We see players on the TV with blood for ages before the umpires notice. Meanwhile, the guys in the ARC are sitting there doing nothing 90% of the time.
ARC should alert the field umpires of a bloody player as soon as it's noticed.
If there are independent doctors there to review vision, they should also notify field umps as soon as a concussion test is required.
Play stops for both until the player leaves the ground.
It's not hard.
Players can't wave off doctors and tests can't be done on field.
Both things need to be out of the control of players or clubs. Both are AFL mandates and should be controlled as such.

 

[PAFC66]

Incorrect. Cameron did a HIA on the ground.

You can't do an HIA on the ground. So no he didn't.

 

[Sentinel]

You can't do an HIA on the ground. So no he didn't.

You're wrong. The player does not need to come off for a HIA.

 

[PAFC66]

From the Geelong website about the incident. Just because you don't understand the protocol doesn't mean I'm wrong.

View attachment 1986083

That's a genuine joke.
They didn't conduct an HIA on the ground.

 

[Sentinel]

That's a genuine joke.
They didn't conduct an HIA on the ground.

If you say so.

 

[PAFC66]

You're wrong. The player does not need to come off for a HIA.

The HIA takes 5 minutes . This wasn't done on the ground , if they said it was that's a lie.

 

[sobrave]

Does anyone have the video?

Should Geelong doctors have taken Jeremy Cameron off after heavy last quarter head knock?

The star forward hit his head on the ground after a heavy fall, but was allowed to stay on the field.

www.theroar.com.au