HECS/HELP debts incurred before 2014 to suffer interest after 2020 - fair?

[Power Raid]

Why? In your own folksy gee whiz ma kind of way you've mused about almost every other form of tax reform in this thread and now you won't try to defend your position because it's in the wrong thread. Smiling Buddha is right about you.

let's start by saying one relates to a fee for service.

the other relates to tax rebate, for a state tax which was deemed unconstitutional. To counter the illegal nature of the tax (which was just a quirk), the federal government assumed control of the tax but kept the wishes of the state in mind which included a rebate for fuel consumed off road.

find out more on the right thread.


geez, I have rubbed a few of you up the wrong way. I sense you might have a HECS debt too. Do you have self interest to disclose?

 

[Power Raid]

You think young people with no assets at a time of record cost of living, record house prices, record workforce casualisation and decreasing public services (see Medicare) are our 'most privileged'?

You are not really this stupid. You are just parroting the talking points you've been given.

It is obvious.

Yep and if they try to charge me interest on it I will take them to the High Court.

And if that fails I will skip country with the intention of never paying back a single ******* cent.

what make you so special, love?

so young people, with no assets, with a record cost of living, record house prices, record casualisation, decreasing public services and......who didn't go to university should pay for YOUR education.

Leave!

It sounds like we will be a richer nation for it.




I will qualify by saying, I don't like how the goal posts have moved. Anyone who joins going forward should come under the new rules but not those who entered under the previous rules.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Yep and if they try to charge me interest on it I will take them to the High Court.

Hahaha this is brilliant

 

[Smiling Buddha]

so young people, with no assets, with a record cost of living, record house prices, record casualisation, decreasing public services and......who didn't go to university should pay for YOUR education.

How does your empty rhetoric relate to uni fee increases or HELP loan indexation/interest accrual?

It doesn't.

You are talking rank s**t as always.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Hahaha this is brilliant

It has been done before.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/students-tax-claim-upheld-by-high-court-20101111-17o9s.html

 

[Colin D'Cops]

It has been done before.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/students-tax-claim-upheld-by-high-court-20101111-17o9s.html

Well aware of that. Cheers though

 

[Power Raid]

You think young people with no assets at a time of record cost of living, record house prices, record workforce casualisation and decreasing public services (see Medicare) are our 'most privileged'?

You are not really this stupid. You are just parroting the talking points you've been given.

It is obvious.

Yep and if they try to charge me interest on it I will take them to the High Court.

And if that fails I will skip country with the intention of never paying back a single ******* cent.

oh and medicare has not decreased, there is just a $7 co payment

Why? in the late 90s we went to the doctors on average 4 times a year. We now go on average 11 times a year. This $7 payment is immaterial but will get people thinking before they go whether the visit is necessary.

What is being done? I was rolling out a chain of GP clinics in WA with a no gap service for aborigines, mental health and other selected groups. The clinic is open for all people with no gap in addition the $7 payment will be waived for certain people (the $7 will be paid by the mining industry and the pharmaceutical industry).



So may be rather than arm waive, think about the opportunity that is created by change and find a positive solution.

 

[Gough]

let's start by saying one relates to a fee for service.

the other relates to tax rebate, for a state tax which was deemed unconstitutional. To counter the illegal nature of the tax (which was just a quirk), the federal government assumed control of the tax but kept the wishes of the state in mind which included a rebate for fuel consumed off road.

find out more on the right thread.


geez, I have rubbed a few of you up the wrong way. I sense you might have a HECS debt too. Do you have self interest to disclose?

Yeah I have a HECS debt I don't really see what that has to do with and the bullshit you have just spewed doesn't explain why you think that the mining industry should be subsidised while students pay fill whack, it's just a potted history of the tax.

 

[Power Raid]

It has been done before.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/students-tax-claim-upheld-by-high-court-20101111-17o9s.html

yep

that was an obvious unreasonable position or interpretation by the ATO. If I remember correctly, the girls dad was a QC.

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah I have a HECS debt I don't really see what that has to do with and the bullshit you have just spewed doesn't explain why you think that the mining industry should be subsidised while students pay fill whack, it's just a potted history of the tax.

bring it to the right thread and find out

 

[Power Raid]

How does your empty rhetoric relate to uni fee increases or HELP loan indexation/interest accrual?

It doesn't.

You are talking rank s**t as always.

so why should they pay for YOUR education again?


I see being caught out bringing misleading links on other threads has fired you up a bit.

 

[stormee]

I'm still bitterly opposed to this but I think there's one party that's getting off too lightly in all of these debates and arguments - that being the Universities. These are PUBLIC institutions that are consistently running profits as if they were corporations - in my mind they should be run on the principles of being not-for-profit entities.

Check out the UWA operating figures for 2013 http://www.annualreport.uwa.edu.au/annual-report-2013/?a=2472996

For an organisation running a balance sheet like that to turn around and cry for deregulation and the need to increase fees is a joke.

Interesting article from Quadrant on the issue - https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2014/05/ivory-towers-golden-hoard/

 

[Power Raid]

I'm still bitterly opposed to this but I think there's one party that's getting off too lightly in all of these debates and arguments - that being the Universities. These are PUBLIC institutions that are consistently running profits as if they were corporations - in my mind they should be run on the principles of being not-for-profit entities.

Check out the UWA operating figures for 2013 http://www.annualreport.uwa.edu.au/annual-report-2013/?a=2472996

For an organisation running a balance sheet like that to turn around and cry for deregulation and the need to increase fees is a joke.

Interesting article from Quadrant on the issue - https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2014/05/ivory-towers-golden-hoard/

not too mention the ridiculous pay on offer. A friend of mine was on $170k in a group financial role at Murdoch uni. In industry she would have commanded $140k so the pay was 20% above market but the real issue was she was reason why she left. She was bored as she only had 4hrs work a day and thus only plodding along at 40-60% pace.

our universities have the wrong culture.

 

[stormee]

not too mention the ridiculous pay on offer. A friend of mine was on $170k in a group financial role at Murdoch uni. In industry she would have commanded $140k so the pay was 20% above market but the real issue was she was reason why she left. She was bored as she only had 4hrs work a day and thus only plodding along at 40-60% pace.

our universities have the wrong culture.

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of admin staff who are supremely inefficient. ANU is significantly better than UWA ever was in that regard but UWA was stuffed to the gills with staff doing work that could have been done with 50% less people.

 

[Maggie5]

oh and medicare has not decreased, there is just a $7 co payment

Why? in the late 90s we went to the doctors on average 4 times a year. We now go on average 11 times a year. This $7 payment is immaterial but will get people thinking before they go whether the visit is necessary.

What is being done? I was rolling out a chain of GP clinics in WA with a no gap service for aborigines, mental health and other selected groups. The clinic is open for all people with no gap in addition the $7 payment will be waived for certain people (the $7 will be paid by the mining industry and the pharmaceutical industry).
So may be rather than arm waive, think about the opportunity that is created by change and find a positive solution.

Really surprised at you PR, didn't think that you except what the Libs or their lackeys put out.
Here is a link that disputes the 11 visits per year.
http://theconversation.com/factchec...ralian-go-to-the-doctor-11-times-a-year-26242

 

[Gough]

so why should they pay for YOUR education again?


I see being caught out bringing misleading links on other threads has fired you up a bit.

Who paid for your science degree? You know, the one that you did remotely at 15 after you left school?Or was that just bullshit?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

I see being caught out bringing misleading links on other threads has fired you up a bit.

Again with the nonsense. At least the other shills are getting paid for their obfuscation. What benefit do you derive from the nonsense you peddle here?

 

[Power Raid]

Who paid for your science degree? You know, the one that you did remotely at 15 after you left school?Or was that just bullshit?

I sure it was subsidised but the fees were circa $600 a unit with no HECS as it was done remotely. I ended up finishing my studies whilst in the navy as I couldn't cope with working more than one job ($3.57/hr) and study.

So yes, I do know how hard things can get when you are young and I haven't forgotten.

When I left the military, I studied under a HECS scheme and the my post grad was paid by my employer. The HECS arrangement was much better than trying to pay your own way whilst studying.

 

[nylexbandit]

so why should they pay for YOUR education again?


I see being caught out bringing misleading links on other threads has fired you up a bit.

THey keep justifying the changes with the fact that ini students earn much more over a lifetime. Therefore uni students pay a lot more tax over a lifetime, making up for any benefits received. Separately, hard to deny education is important to a society, and raising barriers to entry is going to remove those benefits. Doing a trade with cash jobs on the side and govt handouts as well starts to look a bit more attractive to the otherwise student

 

[Power Raid]

wow, university graduates earn about 75% more than no tertiary education according to https://go8.edu.au/sites/default/fi...graduate_skills_and_national_productivity.pdf. This strengthens the argument that students should repay their education.

Further, currently the subsidies for university are covered 60% by the government. The changes proposed amount to reducing these subsidies to 50%. That still means the poorer non-tertiary educated are still forking out for other peoples privileged education.

Lastly, the shift away from CPI to government bonds provides a cap on the subsidies by ensuring the full cost of borrowings are passed on to the consumer.

 

[Gough]

Good to see you parroting Pyne's talking points on Insiders this morning PR. The arrogant little s**t showed us exactly why this government deserves to be a one term government.

 

[Patrick Bullet]

wow, university graduates earn about 75% more than no tertiary education according to https://go8.edu.au/sites/default/fi...graduate_skills_and_national_productivity.pdf. This strengthens the argument that students should repay their education.

It strengthens the argument that they pay it back through additional taxes over their lifetime too.

 

[Power Raid]

Good to see you parroting Pyne's talking points on Insiders this morning PR. The arrogant little s**t showed us exactly why this government deserves to be a one term government.

actually given I bothered to research his comments, it would be fairer to say I was comparing his representations to the facts

 

[Power Raid]

It strengthens the argument that they pay it back through additional taxes over their lifetime too.

no, tax rates are the same for tertiary and non-tertiary educated. so no it doesn't.

further the students already pay it back, so the principle isn't different.

The only change is deregulating the fees system so our universities can be properly funded and the interest rate is being married to borrowing costs rather than inflation.

So I am not sure where your comment is relevant.

 

[Power Raid]

Good to see you parroting Pyne's talking points on Insiders this morning PR. The arrogant little s**t showed us exactly why this government deserves to be a one term government.

still don't care to bring the fuel rebate debate to the right thread. I am still happy to explain it to you.