HECS/HELP debts incurred before 2014 to suffer interest after 2020 - fair?

[Power Raid]

Power Raid how can you run a business and post so much pro-status quo nonsense in this forum?

just the opposite

In this case, I am supporting change to the education sector and supporting changes to our taxation system. I would have thought those arguing for no change are pro-status quo?

I am pro jobs, education and most of all pro-opportunity. I am very anti organisations that like to keep people down like unions, churches and lifestyle companies that feed on short term comfort like maccas, smokes and consumer debt products. I am also anti property sector as I believe this requires a massive overhaul. I am also anti big cities and pro regional development.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

In this case, I am supporting change to the education sector and supporting changes to our taxation system.

Change which is coming whether we like it or not.

Today constant change for the worse is the status quo.

 

[Power Raid]

Been screaming abou these two concessions for years. Scrap them both and then you don't need to cut anything, in fact the budget will correct itself and return to surplus without any other changes.

Additional upside would be a correction in the housing market. Purchaisng investment properties has a duplicate benefit, asset appreciation and rental income. take away the CGT concessions and the asset appreciation is no longer as attractive and you'll see a correction in the housing market which will massively improve housing affordability, government doesn't want to do it though as I'm willing to bet at least 90% of those in Canberra have some sort of property investment (besides family home).

I think everyone can see we have a massive problem with our property. I disagree with your suggestion as to how to fix it as I think an annual lease (tax) is more appropriate than CGT concessions.

Why? Little old lady wants to downsize after her family moves on and husband passes away. Sells her home for $600k that she bought for $30k. Pays her tax at $570k would put her in the highest tax bracket, leaving her with ~$330k which is less than a nice retirement cottage.

I know there are other CGT exceptions such as personal home etc but nevertheless people should be encouraged to invest rather than consume.

 

[Power Raid]

Change which is coming whether we like it or not.

Today constant change for the worse is the status quo.

nah, it is just preparing our nation for globalisation. These changes are unfortunately long overdue and thus the resistance to change is coming from those addicted to "give me free stuff" and "give it to me now" mentalities.

Students need help and that should come in the form of Austudy being on par with the dole which should be on par with the pension. If you are out of work, it costs the same to live so why are the rates different?

Student also need HECS to defer costs but the don't need to be subsidised to the point where the fees don't reflect the value. A price of $20k-30k per annum would be reasonable for our best universities.

Most of all our rich and prosperous graduates, going on to earn big $, don't need subsidised interest rates on their HECS. fair market is fine.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

nah, it is just preparing our nation for globalisation. These changes are unfortunately long overdue and thus the resistance to change is coming from those addicted to "give me free stuff" and "give it to me now" mentalities.

When you post crap like this I generally question whether you are a paid shill.

 

[Gough]

When you post crap like this I generally question whether you are a paid shill.

The irony of someone who works in the mining industry complaining about others getting "free stuff" is pretty breathtaking. Rememeber the paddy they threw when asked to pay a bit more tax, and can you imagine the uproar if the diesel fuel subsidy was withdrawn? Clearly free stuff for the mining industry is good, anyone else who might want a subsidy of some kind is just a bludger.

 

[Power Raid]

You got any evidence for this or is this just your gut feel? What does 'unprepared for the real world' mean exactly? I know plenty of PhD graduates who do just fine in the 'real world', so your comment puzzles me somewhat.

I employ them. We have economists, geologists, chemists, dentists, doctors and even pathologists. There is a stark contrast in capabilities between the career lifestyle academics and those that have simply furthered their education in the down turns. Many Phds need greater levels of management oversight, which is means you need two or more people to do one persons job.

My point is that men don't have to do the same planning and the proposed system makes it more difficult for women, especially those considering a PhD.
Apart from MBA students, most people do their post-grad studies when they are out of work (full time work at least). But before now, the HECS debt was sitting idly by. Now it will be accruing interest.

I agree women get the raw end of the deal as they need time out to have kids and nurture them. Just like an economic downturn, this is the best time to study. The real issue is this fear of debt and accruing interest. I don't like debt, if fact I hate it so much I don't have any. Even my phone bills are usually $1,000 in credit.

That said if you are going to go into debt, isn't a low interest loan which is non-recourse (income threshold) for education still a great deal?

I can't respond to this because you and I fundamentally disagree on whether a tradesman actually pays for someone else's privileged education. You say he does, I say he doesn't because the grad ends up paying it back in higher taxes from the higher income he earns relative to the tradesman, and through other means (which you also don't believe).

No I don't agree

A real life example is comparing someone who has a science degree, a degree in veterinarian studies, an english degree, a phd in english, a phd related to pathology and various post grad studies who earns $60k (tax free grant) working at a university

vs

a electrician who charges out at $2k per day.

and how is it fair if they earned the same income and paid the same tax rate, that this tax payment was considered a repayment of the education for the graduate.

refer inserts

 

[Power Raid]

The irony of someone who works in the mining industry complaining about others getting "free stuff" is pretty breathtaking. Rememeber the paddy they threw when asked to pay a bit more tax, and can you imagine the uproar if the diesel fuel subsidy was withdrawn? Clearly free stuff for the mining industry is good, anyone else who might want a subsidy of some kind is just a bludger.

can't keep focus gough? I thought we were discussing education.

but I am enjoying how a diesel fuel rebate is akin to getting something for free. I am happy to debate this in the appropriate thread.

 

[Power Raid]

When you post crap like this I generally question whether you are a paid shill.

any ideas which organisations are bank rolling me?

 

[Gough]

can't keep focus gough? I thought we were discussing education.

but I am enjoying how a diesel fuel rebate is akin to getting something for free. I am happy to debate this in the appropriate thread.

Like HECS, it's a subsidy that invests in future prosperity, why are the miners deserving of this subsidy when the students aren't?

 

[Slax]

I think everyone can see we have a massive problem with our property. I disagree with your suggestion as to how to fix it as I think an annual lease (tax) is more appropriate than CGT concessions.

Why? Little old lady wants to downsize after her family moves on and husband passes away. Sells her home for $600k that she bought for $30k. Pays her tax at $570k would put her in the highest tax bracket, leaving her with ~$330k which is less than a nice retirement cottage.

I know there are other CGT exceptions such as personal home etc but nevertheless people should be encouraged to invest rather than consume.

It's not the primary home exemption I want to see go, it is the 50% reduction of the net capital gain that I want removed.

I sell a rental property for $600k which I bought for $360k, that is $240k, less selling and purchasing costs of $40k gives $200k Captial gain. But you only get taxed on $100k of the CG. This is the unfair part which is costing the budget billions. Your little old lady downsizing still doesn't have to pay CGT.

 

[Power Raid]

It's not the primary home exemption I want to see go, it is the 50% reduction of the net capital gain that I want removed.

I sell a rental property for $600k which I bought for $360k, that is $240k, less selling and purchasing costs of $40k gives $200k Captial gain. But you only get taxed on $100k of the CG. This is the unfair part which is costing the budget billions. Your little old lady downsizing still doesn't have to pay CGT.

there is a number of problems with this.

1) The obvious issue and biggest is timing. The CGT event recognises the $240k in 1 financial year but the gain might have been over 10 years. If the gain was spread over 10 years the tax rate would probably be 32.5% but in 1 year it is 45%.
2) We want to encourage development which in turn increase supply and thus lowers rents and returns on undeveloped or under developed land. Your proposal doesn't achieve that, rather it makes it worse. An annual lease is a much simpler and better way to go as it can be jurisdiction specific.
3) You want to encourage investment and infrastructure (including houses) and steer away from consumption. Recognising CGT as higher risk thus lower tax encourages investment.

 

[Power Raid]

It's not the primary home exemption I want to see go, it is the 50% reduction of the net capital gain that I want removed.

I sell a rental property for $600k which I bought for $360k, that is $240k, less selling and purchasing costs of $40k gives $200k Captial gain. But you only get taxed on $100k of the CG. This is the unfair part which is costing the budget billions. Your little old lady downsizing still doesn't have to pay CGT.

I would also like to see foreign CGT exceptions being removed. Why should Australians have to pay the tax but foreigners be exempt?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Ol mate Hockey.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

What a menace. Occupying university buildings, assaulting security.

 

[Power Raid]

What a menace. Occupying university buildings, assaulting security.

how nothing changes in 25 years other than rotating the people representing the age groups

 

[Gough]

Like HECS, it's a subsidy that invests in future prosperity, why are the miners deserving of this subsidy when the students aren't?

Power Raid You don't appear to have answered this. Why are miners more deserving of subsidies to develop future prosperity than students?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

how nothing changes in 25 years other than rotating the people representing the age groups

Except the costs. A $250 up front fee is a long way off a 60k+ debt at interest.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Power Raid, you are a woeful poster and I would be surprised if anybody of note on this subforum had any respect for your opinion. The two posts below are typical of your buffoonery.

how nothing changes in 25 years other than rotating the people representing the age groups

Clearly plenty has changed. They were fighting for free education. Those against the changes being mooted today would settle for bachelors degrees that don't cost $50k+ and attract up to 6% interest. You don't see the difference? And if students today carried on like they did in that clip we would be locked up and our faces splashed across newspapers as villains.

This country is on a dark slide and *******s like you are not simply defending it but cheering it on. You're a disgrace.

We want to encourage development which in turn increase supply and thus lowers rents and returns on undeveloped or under developed land. Your proposal doesn't achieve that, rather it makes it worse. An annual lease is a much simpler and better way to go as it can be jurisdiction specific.

The market does that better than any government intervention or winner-picking.

 

[Power Raid]

Power Raid You don't appear to have answered this. Why are miners more deserving of subsidies to develop future prosperity than students?

take it to the right forum and I will happily debate it

 

[Gough]

That's not really much of an answer and you know it, this is a thread about HECS in which you have made your feelings abundantly clear. You want students, to pay market value for their degrees and yet you will defend the right of miners who make billions of dollars in profit to keep all the subsidies and tax breaks which they currently enjoy. Your double standards are mind blowing.

 

[Power Raid]

This country is on a dark slide and *******s like you are not simply defending it but cheering it on. You're a disgrace.

The market does that better than any government intervention or winner-picking.

I am fairly confident we want the same thing for our society. I just disagree on how we should get there.

I guess I have been through the process, coming from an immigrant family with little wealth to be in a fortunate position to semi-retire in my late 30s.

I no longer have self interest in mind as I no longer have burdens that most have. However, to get to that position, I had to break through many ceilings designed to keep people down.

From a personal point of view I couldn't careless if education was free, health was free, coke was fee and the fuel excise was removed, the mining tax was 100% and corporate and personal taxes were 500%. It is no longer my problem.

The reason why I do take interest in these things, is the next group of people coming through the system who will create jobs, wealth and opportunities for the rest should be able to do so without the unnecessary barriers. We should reform our tax system and make them fair, we should have direct taxes on services, we shouldn't have as much waste as we do, we should have better health systems, we should have better education systems but more than anything our youth need opportunity.

That is the reason why I think it is selfish for our most privileged and capable people refuse to accept responsibility for the cost of their own education.

I think the only disgrace is those who step up to the plate and carry their own weight if they are in a position to do so.




Out of interest do you have a HECS debt?

 

[Power Raid]

That's not really much of an answer and you know it, this is a thread about HECS in which you have made your feelings abundantly clear. You want students, to pay market value for their degrees and yet you will defend the right of miners who make billions of dollars in profit to keep all the subsidies and tax breaks which they currently enjoy. Your double standards are mind blowing.

take it to the right thread and I will happily explain the consistency in position

 

[Gough]

take it to the right thread and I will happily explain the consistency in position

Why? In your own folksy gee whiz ma kind of way you've mused about almost every other form of tax reform in this thread and now you won't try to defend your position because it's in the wrong thread. Smiling Buddha is right about you.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

That is the reason why I think it is selfish for our most privileged and capable people refuse to accept responsibility for the cost of their own education.

You think young people with no assets at a time of record cost of living, record house prices, record workforce casualisation and decreasing public services (see Medicare) are our 'most privileged'?

You are not really this stupid. You are just parroting the talking points you've been given.

It is obvious.

Out of interest do you have a HECS debt?

Yep and if they try to charge me interest on it I will take them to the High Court.

And if that fails I will skip country with the intention of never paying back a single ******* cent.