Happy Australia Day 2024!!

[Southerntakeover]

As I said , not really interested in getting too involved

The quote was



To most modern Australians, that would be Australians and their allies ( noting the varying ways 'Australians' fought)

Sure you can argue that ANZAC was a specific Corp and that's true it was.

But it feels that boat has sailed in terms of its popular use.

It's really not something that's open to change depending upon popular opinion. The ANZACs did not win world war 2, nor did they have any substantial role in that war.

If we must try to have discussions on our supposed national identity framed constantly through the lens of the military then it we can at least try to tell the difference between solidiers in a combined imperial corp fighting under British control as an invasion force in Turkey and the soldiers in an entirely different conflict, one which included the British attempting to refuse the return of Australian troops to defend our nation from Japanese invasion, those same troops who were ultimately critical in ensuring that Japan did not dominate the pacific.

This, of course, is not a history that we are asked to remember when we drape ourselves in the union jack on Australia day.

 

[Cap]

It's really not something that's open to change depending upon popular opinion. The ANZACs did not win world war 2, nor did they have any substantial role in that war.

If we must try to have discussions on our supposed national identity framed constantly through the lens of the military then it we can at least try to tell the difference between solidiers in a combined imperial corp fighting under British control as an invasion force in Turkey and the soldiers in an entirely different conflict, one which included the British attempting to refuse the return of Australian troops to defend our nation from Japanese invasion, those same troops who were ultimately critical in ensuring that Japan did not dominate the pacific.

This, of course, is not a history that we are asked to remember when we drape ourselves in the union jack on Australia day.

Great post, love it.

Do you think we rename ANZAC day to provide a separation? Especially as WWI and II fades and soldiers from modern wars come more relevant in popular culture ?

Just call it Armed Forces memorial day? (Or something similar) Allows for separate stories to be told?

 

[DJ75]

Don't be a fool.
Indigenous people never owned this country and never will.

What you and your lefty woke friends are doing is being decisive and putting one group of people as more important than others.
They aren't, and never will be.

They only lived on it for over 60,00 years, but sure.

 

[DJ75]

For all those people who are draping themselves in Chinese made Union Jack's in a lame attempt to prove how 'Australian' they are, just remember that blind patriotism is what led Germany to the Nazi's and is leading the US to oblivion.
Be very careful what you wish for.

 

[El Doederino]

For all those people who are draping themselves in Chinese made Union Jack's in a lame attempt to prove how 'Australian' they are, just remember that blind patriotism is what led Germany to the Nazi's and is leading the US to oblivion.
Be very careful what you wish for.

Also won 2 world wars so there’s that

 

[Crow till I die]

For all those people who are draping themselves in Chinese made Union Jack's in a lame attempt to prove how 'Australian' they are, just remember that blind patriotism is what led Germany to the Nazi's and is leading the US to oblivion.
Be very careful what you wish for.

What the hell is this rubbish..its people liking a flag while they have a barbeque and a beer..

 

[Southerntakeover]

Great post, love it.

Do you think we rename ANZAC day to provide a separation? Especially as WWI and II fades and soldiers from modern wars come more relevant in popular culture ?

Just call it Armed Forces memorial day? (Or something similar) Allows for separate stories to be told?

The day itself was devised to commemorate Gallipoli, there's no sense in messing around with that.

That the day / Gallipoli itself's significance in recent years has been elevated over that of the Kokoda trail was a deliberate political decision spearheaded by Howard in trying to re-shape our national conception of self.

It is, of course, the great irony of being lectured by the dullard rump of the Australian conservative movement about patriotism, and living in the greatest country on earth. The two largest figures in the history of their political movement, Menzies and Howard, were both Britain first apologists who were unable to conceive a national identity not centered in an ashamed genuflecting to the British establishment. Their hero, Churchill, sought to abandon us undefended to Japanese invasion. It's not Australia they love, whatever their posturing.

 

[George Kramer]

Feel free to pass by my posts.

I'm sure there are some posts on the Australian politics board picking on minorities for you to like.

Heck eagleboy can probably post them for you.

You can’t see the humour? You said you won’t debate it a couple of times and then have kept going. You should applaud the post rather than spit the dummy

 

[Cap]

You can’t see the humour? You said you won’t debate it a couple of times and then have kept going. You should applaud the post rather than spit the dummy

My post was funnier, but I know you won't get it anyway

 

[George Kramer]

My post was funnier, but I know you won't get it anyway

Nah, the fact you think it is is bad enough, to actually post it is worse.

Take the loss and move on

 

[beartoo]

Godwin's Law kicks in once again.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Southerntakeover]

Godwin's Law kicks in once again.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

In a thread openly designed to be about nationalism, where else could it have gone?

 

[Cap]

Nah, the fact you think it is is bad enough, to actually post it is worse.

Take the loss and move on

We can call it whatever keeps you happy mate.

 

[Bearded Clam]

It's really not something that's open to change depending upon popular opinion. The ANZACs did not win world war 2, nor did they have any substantial role in that war.

If we must try to have discussions on our supposed national identity framed constantly through the lens of the military then it we can at least try to tell the difference between solidiers in a combined imperial corp fighting under British control as an invasion force in Turkey and the soldiers in an entirely different conflict, one which included the British attempting to refuse the return of Australian troops to defend our nation from Japanese invasion, those same troops who were ultimately critical in ensuring that Japan did not dominate the pacific.

This, of course, is not a history that we are asked to remember when we drape ourselves in the union jack on Australia day.

The very link that I posted in my comment takes you to the “ANZAC Portal”..

https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions/world-war-ii-1939-1945

so even the government records this under a heading of “ANZAC”

i think if you asked most Aussies they see nearly all of our countrymen who have fought in the many wars of the last century or so as ANZAC’s.. even though New Zealanders may not have been digging in along side them..

the whole point of my original comment was simply to highlight and recognise that there were Australian First Nations lads fighting alongside white Australians.. ANZAC or not.

 

[Southerntakeover]

The very link that I posted in my comment takes you to the “ANZAC Portal”..

https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions/world-war-ii-1939-1945

so even the government records this under a heading of “ANZAC”

i think if you asked most Aussies they see nearly all of our countrymen who have fought in the many wars of the last century or so as ANZAC’s.. even though New Zealanders may not have been digging in along side them..

the whole point of my original comment was simply to highlight and recognise that there were Australian First Nations lads fighting alongside white Australians.. ANZAC or not.

Not. This isn't debatable, no matter the website name.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Don't be a fool.
Indigenous people never owned this country and never will.

What you and your lefty woke friends are doing is being decisive and putting one group of people as more important than others.
They aren't, and never will be.

Aboriginal people have never owned the land, Aboriginals have always belonged to the land. Ownership of land only happened since the British invaded. The saying Always Was, Always will be means there has been an Aboriginal footprint from the beginning and despite best attempts to get rid of us, there will Always be an Aboriginal footprint.

 

[feenix67]

Aboriginal people have never owned the land, Aboriginals have always belonged to the land. Ownership of land only happened since the British invaded. The saying Always Was, Always will be means there has been an Aboriginal footprint from the beginning and despite best attempts to get rid of us, there will Always be an Aboriginal footprint.

From the beginning? s**t, I thought humans came out of Africa.

There is so much misinformation peddled in this debate, it's almost impossible to maintain any grasp on the facts.

 

[South of the Yarra]

From the beginning? s**t, I thought humans came out of Africa.

There is so much misinformation peddled in this debate, it's almost impossible to maintain any grasp on the facts.

Here we go, I am talking about from the beginning of Aboriginal existence in the place now called Australia. What information would you like?

 

[South of the Yarra]

From the beginning? s**t, I thought humans came out of Africa.

There is so much misinformation peddled in this debate, it's almost impossible to maintain any grasp on the facts.

What facts would you like about the mistreatment of Aboriginal people due to British rule?

 

[Crow till I die]

What facts would you like about the mistreatment of Aboriginal people due to British rule?

We have moved on now..that happened generations ago. But if this truly is still a thing, i feel for the anglo saxons that had their country taken over by the normans...

 

[South of the Yarra]

We have moved on now..that happened generations ago. But if this truly is still a thing, i feel for the anglo saxons that had their country taken over by the normans...

That is nice you have moved on. No, it's not generation ago. Some Stolen Generation Aboriginals are still in their 50s. Living it now. Do you know what it was like to be ripped from your mother's arms, listen to your mothers screams as she is raped, have her suicide because her kids were taken from her, never see your mother, brothers or sisters again, be beaten with fern hooks and whipped with stock whips, be tied to trees like a dog and locked in hot tin sheds, not know your name or birth date, be beaten for speaking your language, told you are worse than animals, put in the pen with pigs, escape and live in the bush when you are around 5 doing anything you can to survive, live in long grass camps without parents, listen to the rapes and beatings. People still carry that.

 

[feenix67]

Here we go, I am talking about from the beginning of Aboriginal existence in the place now called Australia. What information would you like?

So you're saying that once they travelled out of Africa, through Asia and across the land bridge to Australia, they then started to "exist as Aboriginal people" and thus became the original inhabitants of this land? So the essential argument is "we were here first"?

Despite the stupidity of that statement, let me just point out that, since the dawn of human conflict, the phrase "we were here first" has been met with "so ******* what?".

You can rightly point out the many ways in which white society has oppressed the indigenous population but there isn't a modern country on the planet born without some sort of invasion, conflict or loss of life.

Expecting a more advanced culture to have just sailed away at the sight of a few hundred inhabitants, muttering "if only we'd got here a bit sooner", is some sort of fairy tale designed to facilitate misinformation and outrage. It's also why a date change won't make a difference. ANY day celebrating the birth of this country will in some way be celebrating the displacement of the previous tenants.

 

[South of the Yarra]

So you're saying that once they travelled out of Africa, through Asia and across the land bridge to Australia, they then started to "exist as Aboriginal people" and thus became the original inhabitants of this land? So the essential argument is "we were here first"?

Despite the stupidity of that statement, let me just point out that, since the dawn of human conflict, the phrase "we were here first" has been met with "so ******* what?".

You can rightly point out the many ways in which white society has oppressed the indigenous population but there isn't a modern country on the planet born without some sort of invasion, conflict or loss of life.

Expecting a more advanced culture to have just sailed away at the sight of a few hundred inhabitants, muttering "if only we'd got here a bit sooner", is some sort of fairy tale designed to facilitate misinformation and outrage. It's also why a date change won't make a difference. ANY day celebrating the birth of this country will in some way be celebrating the displacement of the previous tenants.

You just make crap up to suit yourself. There is no argument about being here first. It is about having an imprint on the land we belong to.

 

[Crow till I die]

That is nice you have moved on. No, it's not generation ago. Some Stolen Generation Aboriginals are still in their 50s. Living it now. Do you know what it was like to be ripped from your mother's arms, listen to your mothers screams as she is raped, have her suicide because her kids were taken from her, never see your mother, brothers or sisters again, be beaten with fern hooks and whipped with stock whips, be tied to trees like a dog and locked in hot tin sheds, not know your name or birth date, be beaten for speaking your language, told you are worse than animals, put in the pen with pigs, escape and live in the bush when you are around 5 doing anything you can to survive, live in long grass camps without parents, listen to the rapes and beatings. People still carry that.

Lets self mortify forever then eh...lets never move on as a country eh. Yes i personally know stolen generation people for a very large part of my life and know exactly their life stories and what they endured. I also know that they were very pointed about how far we have come as a country too.

So i don't need you to come here and moralise to us who had nothing to do with what happened a long time ago. Its people that suffer the bigotry of low expectation with our indigenous peoples that are the biggest roadblocks to the future of these people.

 

[feenix67]

You just make crap up to suit yourself. There is no argument about being here first. It is about having an imprint on the land we belong to.

What part of my post is made up?