Review GBU vs collingwood

[FR0GGY]

Didn't trust himself because he knows he's a terrible kick

Didn’t he deliver the first i50 lace out?

 

[Rank]

Never wanted to say it but, Tex is absolutely cooked. Not a patch on his mobility he had last year.
Still has the skills and footy smarts, and still the most sublime kick of the football, but his body is just getting old for AFL footy. Will be his last season for sure.

He can barely get to the contest now, Body is cooked

 

[Ham]

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[BACCS]

So there's plenty of criticisms of how we played in the last 10 mins or so but I think this 'list of mistakes' thing is kind of a dumb way to do it. The big thing I'd point to is that we just gave up on attack and tried to preserve the lead, which is obviously a balancing act but I think we went too conservative by quite a bit. That was on everyone of course and is extremely hard to get right, but fair to say we didn't go particularly close. I'd also say that the rebound focussed style of scoring falls over when the opposition has the lead and just wants to defend, which hurts us a lot in close games when we are behind, but means we are very capable of getting a run on against a team that is trying to score.

Anyway, the problem with listing every play where someone could have done better is that if you're going to take that route you can really isolate errors from anyone and make them sound dreadful. Especially in a high pressure final quarter environment where basically everything anyone does has alternative options that might have been better. You could selectively pick different moments, or even do the opposite by isolating positive moments to paint a different picture - ROB took two good contested marks in the last 10 mins for example and set up a scoring chance off one of them, but I wouldn't say he had a good final quarter.

There's also no sense of proportion here. Some of these things you list are big mistakes (ROB just shanking it after collecting after a forward stoppage for example was horrible... at least hold the ball up and look for another option), others are no big deal at all and totally understandable, like Jones getting a handpass from Rankine surrounded by Collingwood players and turning it into a stoppage, which you describe as him being in 'poor position'. If the players were reversed I'm sure you'd say this was Jones selecting a poor option. I'd much rather what Jones did than say what Walker did in a similar spot, just handballing to nobody and turning it over.

For example, here's a couple of examples of impactful final quarter errors from players who were actually very good:

With 12 mins left in Q4, 4 points the difference, Dawson takes the ball 60 from goal on a turnover with plenty of time. He absolutely shanks it into the pocket near the behind post and Sidebottom collects it for an easy rebound. This was a particularly bad entry following a turnover when we should have at least forced a contest, but is obviously just as bad as say ROBs crappy kick inside 50 or Keays' snap.

With 9 mins left in Q4, same score, Nankervis is free 60 from goal and looks to hit up Keays in the pocket for a scoring opportunity but kicks it out on the full. Keays actually marked this one over the boundary line and would have had a shot if Nank kept it in the field of play.

Since we're calling out Jones for kicking out of defence straight to a Collingwood interceptor, Nankervis also did this the very next play after the Jones one you mention, with about 5 mins remaining from around the same spot. A slightly better kick but still to Collingwood's advantage and resulting in an intercept mark to Cameron. You call Jones out specifically, but when Nank does it it's a team strategy which leads to the problem.

I was also going to talk about the player evaluations but suffice to say I think describing Hinge's quarter as 'decent' while singling out Soligo for praise is weird.

Soligo had some bloody horrible kicks inside 50 most of the game. Great contest work as always, but a couple of very notable shanks off the boot that led to noticeable turnovers.

 

[BACCS]

That's not true though. Nankervis spots Fogarty boundary side of his opponent with 5m of separation in a potential 2 on 1 and kicks it right there. Yes it was probably going to be a 2 on 2 pack when the ball gets there. Very harsh to describe that as to the advantage of the Collingwood player who outmarks it coming in from the side

In the Jones case, Frampton is playing in front of Walker and as Walker moves back and boundary side, Jones kicks it in front of Frampton corridor side. It was perfectly to him.



Walker was trying to handball it to Rachele in the clear, which was clearly the best option, and at the moment of the handball Noble was running away which was actually clearing space for that handball. Noble read that play brilliantly and Walker's handball wasn't amazing, but it was a good attacking decision given the position of the game.



I'm not talking about the whole quarter, only the final seven minutes



Nah some players had some seriously poor errors that had nothing to do with just playing conservatively. O'Brien's shank, Keays horrendous snap into the man, Jones missing O'Brien's clean tap... we're talking simple execution errors and usually by experienced players. In fact Keays snap, which was a major factor in costing us the game, was the opposite of conservative play. It was a stupid decision and terrible execution.

And even when we did attempt to play conservatively on purpose we couldn't even kick to contests properly. Jones kicking it to Frampton's advantage, Butts kicking to about 5 Collingwood player's advantage, leaving Collingwood players free around packs to win crumbs...

You can’t pick and choose examples though, this is the issue with your posts sometimes. Our 3 best midfielders (Dawson, Rankine, Soligo) made some really poor errors by foot (especially first half), while Lachie Murphy was very clean and probably our best player in the first half and the 2nd best forward on the ground across the whole game. However, you just had to make it clear how poor Murphy was as a leader in the 4th, but praise others.

Why isn’t that part of the game important to winning, instead of random plays with 7 minutes to go? The heat was on, Collingwood made a heap of errors too. Our big 3 mids were also quite poor at stoppages early on and allowed Collingwood to kick 6 goals in 10 minutes, I would say that had more impact on the result than the last 7 minutes. The Keays and ROB errors were glaring, but should ideally not be in that position as we were the better team for 2.5-3 quarters of that game and wasted our I50 dominance.

 

[BunjiMC]

If ROB keeps playing, I'm not sure I can keep watching

 

[BACCS]

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Can someone measure how far John Noble was running from kickouts?

 

[George Kramer]

Cmon, Murphy was very good for 3 quarters of that game. You know that’s correct.

You mean 1st half, he had 2 touches in the third.

 

[George Kramer]

So after we took the lead with 7 minutes left on the clock, here's just some of the errors we made

1. After De Goey's miss and we're kicking out, Jones turns it straight over to Frampton, literally kicking it to his advantage, and Collingwood get a repeat shot on goal (out on the full, luckily) because Murphy comes up to affect a contest which leaves his man wide open on the counter through overlap
2. After that miss we play very very slow football down the line which gets turned over because we don't have contested markers up the field
3. At a stoppage inside Collingwood's 50, Laird lets Nick Daicos get completely in the clear. Daicos kicks it out on the full
4. A kick goes inside 50 and Rankine miraculously wins it at ground level, handballs it to Jones who's in the clear but is too slow to react to Rankine winning the ball and is in poor position. Jones attempts to handball it over the top of three Collingwood players to Laird but it's smothered (obviously) and it's a stoppage.
5. O'Brien wins it out of the ruck (3 minutes left now) and attempts a shot on goal but shanks it, both completely missing the goals and not making the distance. Soligo was behind him calling for it
6. Shortly after this Keays attempts a snap shot on goal he was never going to kick with at least three players free calling for the handball inside 50 in goal scoring positions. This is what leads to an epic fast turnover from Collingwood that lets De Goey kick the sealer. Keane slips over on him
7. We're now down with 2 minutes left. With 1 minute left to go, Butts wins a free kick about half way. Butts kicks it long to the boundary with Collingwood in best position, ignoring Fogarty short. Butts was always too far to get it reasonably inside 50 and Collingwood had stacked that area of the ground. We commit four players to this contest and leave at least three Collingwood players outside in ball receiving positions along with Hill who is probably 30m away from anyone in the corridor
8. Stoppage on the wing with 43 seconds left, O'Brien wins a perfect tap to Jones who completely misjudges it and it falls to his feet so he soccers the ball 2m into a Collingwood player
9. After this, the ball spills clear and Nankervis wins it. O'Brien, who was right there, fails to block a Collingwood player coming from behind him, who is able to tackle Nankervis out of bounds
10. When Rankine was running forward and ultimately called for running too far with 17 seconds left, he had absolutely no support whatsoever with most players too far forward and nothing in an acre of space around the 50

With Jones turning it over and being absolutely terrible, O'Brien shanking it, Laird being ineffective, Keays making a diabolical decision inside 50, Murphy contributing nothing, and Smith having no impact, who stood up?

Very noticeably, it was Dawson, Rankine, Nankervis (special mention to him, he was excellent busting his ass everywhere), then Hinge was decent, Crouch decent but appeared to be benched for the final minutes. Michalanney was constantly providing options on the far wing but we never used him. Soligo played a bit on Nick Daicos who had little to no influence in that period

Also, Nicks' plan to play slow and kick long down the line with a narrow lead, 7 minutes to go, with little to no contested marking power, is idiotic. Especially when down with 2 minutes to go we hugged the boundary and kicked long to packs. No creativity, no switching the play, no attempts to make space. Just players stuffing it up.

Good work. We clearly stopped doing what got us the lead, tried to play safe. A majority of the leaders shat the bed.

Nicks is a ****wit.

 

[FR0GGY]

You can’t pick and choose examples though, this is the issue with your posts sometimes. Our 3 best midfielders (Dawson, Rankine, Soligo) made some really poor errors by foot (especially first half), while Lachie Murphy was very clean and probably our best player in the first half and the 2nd best forward on the ground across the whole game. However, you just had to make it clear how poor Murphy was as a leader in the 4th, but praise others.

Why isn’t that part of the game important to winning, instead of random plays with 7 minutes to go? The heat was on, Collingwood made a heap of errors too. Our big 3 mids were also quite poor at stoppages early on and allowed Collingwood to kick 6 goals in 10 minutes, I would say that had more impact on the result than the last 7 minutes. The Keays and ROB errors were glaring, but should ideally not be in that position as we were the better team for 2.5-3 quarters of that game and wasted our I50 dominance.

Isn’t that like picking and choosing this game as an example?
Murphy was good 1/2 this game, but overall the rest of his games are……

 

[Bearded Clam]

You mean 1st half, he had 2 touches in the third.

Yep.. and 1 touch in the last.

He had an alright 1st half..

But who gives a sh*t.. he’s still garbage. And they’ve made this unflushabke turd a member of the leadership group.

Just like the same game last year at the g against the pies… when the game is on the line he goes completely fxxkn missing.

But people like BACCS totally ignore this and expect all of us to take his posts seriously.

 

[George Kramer]

So after we took the lead with 7 minutes left on the clock, here's just some of the errors we made

1. After De Goey's miss and we're kicking out, Jones turns it straight over to Frampton, literally kicking it to his advantage, and Collingwood get a repeat shot on goal (out on the full, luckily) because Murphy comes up to affect a contest which leaves his man wide open on the counter through overlap
2. After that miss we play very very slow football down the line which gets turned over because we don't have contested markers up the field
3. At a stoppage inside Collingwood's 50, Laird lets Nick Daicos get completely in the clear. Daicos kicks it out on the full
4. A kick goes inside 50 and Rankine miraculously wins it at ground level, handballs it to Jones who's in the clear but is too slow to react to Rankine winning the ball and is in poor position. Jones attempts to handball it over the top of three Collingwood players to Laird but it's smothered (obviously) and it's a stoppage.
5. O'Brien wins it out of the ruck (3 minutes left now) and attempts a shot on goal but shanks it, both completely missing the goals and not making the distance. Soligo was behind him calling for it
6. Shortly after this Keays attempts a snap shot on goal he was never going to kick with at least three players free calling for the handball inside 50 in goal scoring positions. This is what leads to an epic fast turnover from Collingwood that lets De Goey kick the sealer. Keane slips over on him
7. We're now down with 2 minutes left. With 1 minute left to go, Butts wins a free kick about half way. Butts kicks it long to the boundary with Collingwood in best position, ignoring Fogarty short. Butts was always too far to get it reasonably inside 50 and Collingwood had stacked that area of the ground. We commit four players to this contest and leave at least three Collingwood players outside in ball receiving positions along with Hill who is probably 30m away from anyone in the corridor
8. Stoppage on the wing with 43 seconds left, O'Brien wins a perfect tap to Jones who completely misjudges it and it falls to his feet so he soccers the ball 2m into a Collingwood player
9. After this, the ball spills clear and Nankervis wins it. O'Brien, who was right there, fails to block a Collingwood player coming from behind him, who is able to tackle Nankervis out of bounds
10. When Rankine was running forward and ultimately called for running too far with 17 seconds left, he had absolutely no support whatsoever with most players too far forward and nothing in an acre of space around the 50

With Jones turning it over and being absolutely terrible, O'Brien shanking it, Laird being ineffective, Keays making a diabolical decision inside 50, Murphy contributing nothing, and Smith having no impact, who stood up?

Very noticeably, it was Dawson, Rankine, Nankervis (special mention to him, he was excellent busting his ass everywhere), then Hinge was decent, Crouch decent but appeared to be benched for the final minutes. Michalanney was constantly providing options on the far wing but we never used him. Soligo played a bit on Nick Daicos who had little to no influence in that period

Also, Nicks' plan to play slow and kick long down the line with a narrow lead, 7 minutes to go, with little to no contested marking power, is idiotic. Especially when down with 2 minutes to go we hugged the boundary and kicked long to packs. No creativity, no switching the play, no attempts to make space. Just players stuffing it up.

Whats the bet the highlights of this game aren’t shown on the big screen at training for “educational” purposes

 

[Jirkago75]

That's not true though. Nankervis spots Fogarty boundary side of his opponent with 5m of separation in a potential 2 on 1 and kicks it right there. Yes it was probably going to be a 2 on 2 pack when the ball gets there. Very harsh to describe that as to the advantage of the Collingwood player who outmarks it coming in from the side

In the Jones case, Frampton is playing in front of Walker and as Walker moves back and boundary side, Jones kicks it in front of Frampton corridor side. It was perfectly to him.



Walker was trying to handball it to Rachele in the clear, which was clearly the best option, and at the moment of the handball Noble was running away which was actually clearing space for that handball. Noble read that play brilliantly and Walker's handball wasn't amazing, but it was a good attacking decision given the position of the game.



I'm not talking about the whole quarter, only the final seven minutes



Nah some players had some seriously poor errors that had nothing to do with just playing conservatively. O'Brien's shank, Keays horrendous snap into the man, Jones missing O'Brien's clean tap... we're talking simple execution errors and usually by experienced players. In fact Keays snap, which was a major factor in costing us the game, was the opposite of conservative play. It was a stupid decision and terrible execution.

And even when we did attempt to play conservatively on purpose we couldn't even kick to contests properly. Jones kicking it to Frampton's advantage, Butts kicking to about 5 Collingwood player's advantage, leaving Collingwood players free around packs to win crumbs...

The issue is that we haven’t learnt from this and trained to get better in these situations. I really don’t understand what the hell they did in the pre season. It must be the worst ever, all the players were out of form and our new game plan was awful.
The difference in the game was skills, I look at times when Soligo runs past and picks up the ball beautifully and set up a team mate. To often we fumble which ends up costing us an opportunity to score. Collingwood have more players that don’t fumble and have more scoring chains.

Stupidity I don’t think we are that far off from becoming a good team, issue is we need to draft 3 or 4 good midfielders, half back and half forwards. We have about 5 players that just aren’t good enough that need to be replaced or make them retire. Our list is young enough to hit the draft one more time and make the finals next year.

Unfortunately not sure Nicks move us forward or not, he has made many mistakes in selection and substitution. We need to get a senior assistant to help him from himself. Now that the finals are over, time to ply the young guys even more. Rest Tex, drop Smith and put Laird to half back. Nicks just doesn’t make the tough decisions that others do (Blight). And that will cost him his job


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[FullyBigKPro]

3.5 wins after 10 games, half a game off bottom 4.... What a total sh**show this years been.

Just the absolute definition of mediocrity.

 

[Greenfinger]

Core midfield comparison metres gain and centre bounce attendances


Collingwood

Metres. CBAs
N Daicos 542 23
Crisp 480 22
Pendlebury 388. 25
Cameron. 207. 23
Total 1617. 93

Adelaide

Metres. CBAs
Rankine. 699. 16
Dawson. 405. 15
Soligo. 231. 19
Crouch. 132. 15
Laird. 108. 16
O’Brien 82. 23
Total 1657. 104

So Collingwood core midfield of 4 were at nearly all CBAs and got the same metres gained as our midfield which shared out the CBAs over 6 players! Crouch , laird and O’Brien all got less metres gained than their ruckman !

imagine what this would look like if we gave Collingwood number of cbas to rankine , soligo and Dawson!

We have an inefficient, bloated midfield now carrying players with little hurt factor.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Murphy was good today and he simply isn’t being dropped in the near future. He’s just not, so we all need to get over this one.

McHenry, Jones, Smith and ROB on the other hand… they were absolute stink pants. The club really needs to do more than yo-yo some of the younger players in and out of the team and actually make a statement at the selection table. Enough of this honourable loss garbage and drop an underperforming senior player or two… or three… to make clear that losses such as these are no longer acceptable.

14 disposals and his first goal of the year we should all be celebrating and thanking the footy gods…11 in the first half.

In the last 2 qtrs, so a half of footy, 1 kick 2 handballs and zero tackles

 

[George Kramer]

Core midfield comparison metres gain and centre bounce attendances


Collingwood

Metres. CBAs
N Daicos 542 23
Crisp 480 22
Pendlebury 388. 25
Cameron. 207. 23
Total 1617. 93

Adelaide

Metres. CBAs
Rankine. 699. 16
Dawson. 405. 15
Soligo. 231. 19
Crouch. 132. 15
Laird. 108. 16
O’Brien 82. 23
Total 1657. 104

So Collingwood core midfield of 4 were at nearly all CBAs and got the same metres gained as our midfield which shared out the CBAs over 6 players! Coach , laird and O’Brien all got less metres gained than their ruckman !

imagine what this would look like if we gave Collingwood number of cbas to rankine , soligo and Dawson!

We have an inefficient, bloated midfield now carrying players with little hurt factor.

Good post.

You see Carmo these are stats that actually mean something

 

[thebirdman 24]

They should do a study to check the lead exposure on the "No no we're actually a really good team that just happens to lose most of the time" people.

We are just unlucky.

No possible other explanation.

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[relapse]

Watching Nankervis work in the last minutes of a close game it's absolutely mind blowing he hasn't been a starting player for us all year. He was ******* fantastic

The NBA analysts uses a term to describe certain players, they either class them as being high floor/low ceiling or low floor/high ceiling.

Basically the high ceiling/low floor are players who have the potential to be great, but early are inconsistent and may have games were they only rate as a 2/10.

Or the flip side the high floor/low ceiling are the guys who will consistently be a 5-6 out of 10 every week, but that's the most you ever get out of them.

I know I'm rambling, but the point I'm getting to is that this club has always over valued the high floor/low ceiling players. Instead of showing patience and building confidence in the high ceiling players we always seem to drop them as soon as we can in order to bring back a low ceiling player.

 

[dogs105]

Good post, except for:

26D/16K/10H (dunno DE, though), 7M, 2T, one of his best games for us, I thought.

Yeah, that was probably harsh. Lots of mistakes early but his second half was much better.

 

[Scorpus]

You can’t pick and choose examples though, this is the issue with your posts sometimes. Our 3 best midfielders (Dawson, Rankine, Soligo) made some really poor errors by foot (especially first half), while Lachie Murphy was very clean and probably our best player in the first half and the 2nd best forward on the ground across the whole game. However, you just had to make it clear how poor Murphy was as a leader in the 4th, but praise others.

Why isn’t that part of the game important to winning, instead of random plays with 7 minutes to go? The heat was on, Collingwood made a heap of errors too. Our big 3 mids were also quite poor at stoppages early on and allowed Collingwood to kick 6 goals in 10 minutes, I would say that had more impact on the result than the last 7 minutes. The Keays and ROB errors were glaring, but should ideally not be in that position as we were the better team for 2.5-3 quarters of that game and wasted our I50 dominance.

The last 7 minutes matter because they are the hottest minutes of the game. We can see how we protect our narrow lead, and when we lost it, what we did to try and win.

It's a great test of leadership and of quality. The cream rises.

We had some players rise to the occasion, but also some that shit the bed. Ultimately we were relying on too few that had stepped up and we had some players undoing their good work

 

[FullyBigKPro]

I'm just totally sick of seeing a Crows side with Jones, McHenry and Murphy named in it.

Then add in a cooked Smith, Sholl and Hamill - Thats a third of your side. Truly staggering we even got within a goal.

Absolute indictment on the club that our 2 best players by absolute daylight (Rankine & Dawson) were traded in. We have not drafted any elite guns. Soligo is on a good trajectory and Rachele is too inconsistent.

Club is a total rabble and Nicks is a total dud.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Both true:
Murphy had one of his best games ever
Murphy had 3 possessions in the second half

 

[GreyCrow]

The issue is that we haven’t learnt from this and trained to get better in these situations. I really don’t understand what the hell they did in the pre season. It must be the worst ever, all the players were out of form and our new game plan was awful.
The difference in the game was skills, I look at times when Soligo runs past and picks up the ball beautifully and set up a team mate. To often we fumble which ends up costing us an opportunity to score. Collingwood have more players that don’t fumble and have more scoring chains.

It actually happens with most clubs - but maybe bigman can help out - but we look totally surprised to see an opposition out there who actively want to take the ball away

Its like we train for situations without setting up for what happens when it goes wrong

tl;dr training doesnt train us for what the opposition will do

 

[1990crow]

Both true:
Murphy had one of his best games ever
Murphy had 3 possessions in the second half

He resorted to his norm after that miraculous goal.
Fumbled, ran to the wrong positions, let his man get away from him on the rebound, went for marks when he should have been the crumber

He's terrible.