Footy Showdown: Devlog [ New Screenshot ]

[game_chromosome]

I know, similar to AFL 98-99 with yours. Whereas they stayed with the unrealistic symmetrical bounce.

Also, do you think coding player manoeuvres/movements is easier if there's examples of it within other 8 bit games?

Btw, he has more videos like that you should check out, too. In one he talks about flooding.

With the manoeuvres you're meaning side stepping and turns? It's possible I am not sure getting that right is within my skill level. Possibly could have the animation begin, make the player 'untackleable' for duration of the animation like an iFrame, not exactly that simple but you get it. Not keen on iFrames in a tackle game. Having it so players can execute the turn by timing it at the correct moment will need a rewrite off the tackling so they can be timed. Not a huge fan of the tackling in my game anyway and always planned to rewrite it

What are the examples of those manoeuvres in 8 bit games?

 

[GoldbergsGold]

With the manoeuvres you're meaning side stepping and turns? It's possible I am not sure getting that right is within my skill level. Possibly could have the animation begin, make the player 'untackleable' for duration of the animation like an iFrame, not exactly that simple but you get it. Not keen on iFrames in a tackle game. Having it so players can execute the turn by timing it at the correct moment will need a rewrite off the tackling so they can be timed. Not a huge fan of the tackling in my game anyway and always planned to rewrite it

What are the examples of those manoeuvres in 8 bit games?

i mean as in the aspects of the sport, like fends offs that you said you don't know if is possible to add.

Right, I think the key to a very effective simulation is to get the contested play to be just like the real sport, it's lacking in every single Football game. There's many games you could look at from the 8 bit era for inspiration for the manoeuvres and aspects of Aussie Rules to adapt.

Spinning has to be in many of them, same with fend offs. Would you like me to dig up some examples for research?

 

[GoldbergsGold]

With the manoeuvres you're meaning side stepping and turns? It's possible I am not sure getting that right is within my skill level. Possibly could have the animation begin, make the player 'untackleable' for duration of the animation like an iFrame, not exactly that simple but you get it. Not keen on iFrames in a tackle game. Having it so players can execute the turn by timing it at the correct moment will need a rewrite off the tackling so they can be timed. Not a huge fan of the tackling in my game anyway and always planned to rewrite it

What are the examples of those manoeuvres in 8 bit games?

I think there's many ways you could implement a evasion mechanic such as spins and fends offs in a way that its not exploitable and pattern recognizable.

Also, with tackling, make it so if you're tackled by an opposition player who came at you from the front or came in side ways, don't pin the player down straight away, allow for some sort of evasion button mashing mechanic. But I think the tackles that come from behind should be "pinned down".

Btw, how many players could gang tackle in your game? Was it 2 or 3?

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Where all the action will take place!

View attachment 1182652

Have you thought about making the ground smaller, or having different sized grounds? Also, what about an option for a camera angle that shows the entire ground?

 

[game_chromosome]

Have you thought about making the ground smaller, or having different sized grounds? Also, what about an option for a camera angle that shows the entire ground?

The ground size has changed since that image, its a little smaller. I feel it's in a sweet spot between not too large and not too small. Still large enough where it doesn't feel so quick from end to end. I've measured it to need 3-4 kicks to get from one end to the other

 

[GoldbergsGold]

The ground size has changed since that image, its a little smaller. I feel it's in a sweet spot between not too large and not too small. Still large enough where it doesn't feel so quick from end to end. I've measured it to need 3-4 kicks to get from one end to the other

Glad to hear you're still at it. I hope you're making the CPU/AI super smart. Do you have something similar to 23 where a loose player runs from behind and past their teammate who has marked the ball and is looking for options?

 

[game_chromosome]

Glad to hear you're still at it. I hope you're making the CPU/AI super smart. Do you have something similar to 23 where a loose player runs from behind and past their teammate who has marked the ball and is looking for options?

That happens in the video on YouTube. A player takes a mark at half back and team mate runs past/wide for the hands.

And imo that's not smart, that's basic footy and should be in any footy by standard

 

[GoldbergsGold]

That happens in the video on YouTube. Air player takes a mark at half back and team mate runs past/wide for the hands.

And imo that's not smart, that's basic footy and should be in any footy by standard

I saw players far away running off their man to be an option, but I didn't see a close by player running past from behind their teammate for a quick hand pass. 1-2, 1-2, handpassing should be a key component of the game, it's near impossible to do that in 23. Is blocking an ability in this game or bumping? It would be a really good game if it's not the typical kick to a contest and goal, but play a hand passing game, and find open space, like real footy.

 

[game_chromosome]

I saw players far away running off their man to be an option, but I didn't see a close by player running past from behind their teammate for a quick hand pass. 1-2, 1-2, handpassing should be a key component of the game, it's near impossible to do that in 23. Is blocking an ability in this game or bumping? It would be a really good game if it's not the typical kick to a contest and goal, but play a hand passing game, and find open space, like real footy.

Bumping will be in. Blocking/shepherding I've toyed with but with so much already mapped to the controls adding more makes it difficult to add also having the ai do it fairly is also a problem. I am trying to have it balanced so either kicking or hand passing is viable.

Watch the video from 2.40min player takes mark at full back, kicks to half back for a mark then player runs past and wide for the hands. All AI.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Bumping will be in. Blocking/shepherding I've toyed with but with so much already mapped to the controls adding more makes it difficult to add also having the ai do it fairly is also a problem. I am trying to have it balanced so either kicking or hand passing is viable.

Watch the video from 2.40min player takes mark at full back, kicks to half back for a mark then player runs past and wide for the hands. All AI.

Oh, I see it, now, that's awesome to see. I also think contested marking should be hard in your game, to prevent that always bomb inside 50, mark, goal flaw. And I don't see punching in multiple directions an aerial ball away like in Live 1 and 23, ie "hit to the boundary". Does your player have to face the direction you want to spoil in? Can you face one direction but punch the ball in another direction?

 

[game_chromosome]

Oh, I see it, now, that's awesome to see. I also think contested marking should be hard in your game, to prevent that always bomb inside 50, mark, goal flaw. And I don't see punching in multiple directions an aerial ball away like in Live 1 and 23, ie "hit to the boundary". Does your player have to face the direction you want to spoil in? Can you face one direction but punch the ball in another direction?

Directional spoiling will be in. I'm playing with a system where when defending, holding square or X will activate the nearest defender to contest and he will auto run and attempt to spoil in direction of left stick

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Directional spoiling will be in. I'm playing with a system where when defending, holding square or X will activate the nearest defender to contest and he will auto run and attempt to spoil in direction of left stick

Glad to hear defense is being worked on. It should be as difficult as it is in real life, where players have to work around the wall of players and find space, usually by handballing it around. Lobbing it into the forward line to a pack or contested play shouldn't be rewarded 99% of the time like most footy games. I hope some more gameplay footage is uploaded, the timing for it now is perfect.

 

[game_chromosome]

Glad to hear defense is being worked on. It should be as difficult as it is in real life, where players have to work around the wall of players and find space, usually by handballing it around. Lobbing it into the forward line to a pack or contested play shouldn't be rewarded 99% of the time like most footy games. I hope some more gameplay footage is uploaded, the timing for it now is perfect.

Yes definitely pack contests need to be 80-90 percent spoiled for realistic play no doubt.

Footy is a super tough game to replicate in video game form especially with balancing the way players cover the ground. Pushing up and back and having them get into position in time without speeding up or teleporting is a bit of struggle.

Oh and btw My PC finally died and for some reason my USB drive that had back ups failed as well so here's hoping the data on my SSD and HD can be recovered or its back to the drawing board. I was planning rewriting most of the systems anyway to be more efficient. Will be using Dropbox for back ups from now on

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Yes definitely pack contests need to be 80-90 percent spoiled for realistic play no doubt.

Footy is a super tough game to replicate in video game form especially with balancing the way players cover the ground. Pushing up and back and having them get into position in time without speeding up or teleporting is a bit of struggle.

Oh and btw My PC finally died and for some reason my USB drive that had back ups failed as well so here's hoping the data on my SSD and HD can be recovered or its back to the drawing board. I was planning rewriting most of the systems anyway to be more efficient. Will be using Dropbox for back ups from now on

Oh, no way. What in the PC died? If it's just a CPU or motherboard, should just be able to take the SSD out of that computer and stick it into another one, or use a USB 3.0 to SATA Adapter.

 

[game_chromosome]

Oh, no way. What in the PC died? If it's just a CPU or motherboard, should just be able to take the SSD out of that computer and stick it into another one, or use a USB 3.0 to SATA Adapter.

Yeah I've already got a new pc so I'll plug the HD in and the SSD which windows is installed on. It should be all good

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Yeah I've already got a new pc so I'll plug the HD in and the SSD which windows is installed on. It should be all good

Did everything work out? Looking at more of your old gameplay, I really like the packs going for a mark, has any other footy game done those? Not even 23 has them.

 

[game_chromosome]

Did everything work out? Looking at more of your old gameplay, I really like the packs going for a mark, has any other footy game done those? Not even 23 has them.

Yeah just connected my SSD to another PC and it's like nothing happened. Lost a little progress from some tweaks recently because the main file corrupted but the back ups saved me. The tweaks weren't a big deal just player speeds and ball speeds so easy to do again.

Yes pack marking is in not sure if it's in another game I think Evo 2 might have had them. Not sure if it's in the video but in pack marks in my game, players who collide in the air can fall down on landing and then be out of the contest until they get up

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Yeah just connected my SSD to another PC and it's like nothing happened. Lost a little progress from some tweaks recently because the main file corrupted but the back ups saved me. The tweaks weren't a big deal just player speeds and ball speeds so easy to do again.

Yes pack marking is in not sure if it's in another game I think Evo 2 might have had them. Not sure if it's in the video but in pack marks in my game, players who collide in the air can fall down on landing and then be out of the contest until they get up

Very glad to hear, back it all up on the cloud and an external hard drive, would be a complete disaster to lose all that work.

Glad to hear there are collisions. You should try and add blocking and pushing and shoving, too, even if it's just body on body pushing, ie moving the player's body into another player causing them to move out of position, that would be innovative. Make clipping impossible, have it so if you run at another player who is just standing still at full speed, you both fall over, and you give up a free kick.

Also, have you considered adding in a backwards running mechanic to mark the ball?

 

[game_chromosome]

Very glad to hear, back it all up on the cloud and an external hard drive, would be a complete disaster to lose all that work.

Glad to hear there are collisions. You should try and add blocking and pushing and shoving, too, even if it's just body on body pushing, ie moving the player's body into another player causing them to move out of position, that would be innovative. Make clipping impossible, have it so if you run at another player who is just standing still at full speed, you both fall over, and you give up a free kick.

Also, have you considered adding in a backwards running mechanic to mark the ball?

Definitely trying to add collisions to avoid clipping. It's already in where players won't clip and avoid each other if one is in the way, but having reactive collisions like players falling over etc is something I would like to have.

Yes I will try adding the backwards running in. Should be pretty simple, just switch the animation to backwards running when the player is at a certain point close to the fall of the ball/contest. Obviously, this would only work if the player is running with the flight of the ball and not directly at the ball

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Definitely trying to add collisions to avoid clipping. It's already in where players won't clip and avoid each other if one is in the way, but having reactive collisions like players falling over etc is something I would like to have.

Yes I will try adding the backwards running in. Should be pretty simple, just switch the animation to backwards running when the player is at a certain point close to the fall of the ball/contest. Obviously, this would only work if the player is running with the flight of the ball and not directly at the ball

I think backwards running should be optional, like holding down a button (L3/LS?) while pointing the left analog the way of the fall of the ball.

Maybe slow down the movement as a consequence of backwards running, but gives you the advantage of marking the ball, and an opponent running forward will be prone to giving away a free kick if they sprint at the backwards running player to spoil the aerial ball, causing the backwards running player to fall over. That would bring in better marking strategies.

Maybe give it so you have half a second or less of a grace period of sprinting and it won't cause opponents who aren't moving or running backwards to fall over as a bit of a tactic, whereas if you sprint for longer than half a second it causes others not moving or running backwards to fall over with the user's spiriting momentum, and you give away a free as a result.

 

[game_chromosome]

I think backwards running should be optional, like holding down a button (L3/LS?) while pointing the left analog the way of the fall of the ball.

Maybe slow down the movement as a consequence of backwards running, but gives you the advantage of marking the ball, and an opponent running forward will be prone to giving away a free kick if they sprint at the backwards running player to spoil the aerial ball, causing the backwards running player to fall over. That would bring in better marking strategies.

Maybe give it so you have half a second or less of a grace period of sprinting and it won't cause opponents who aren't moving or running backwards to fall over as a bit of a tactic, whereas if you sprint for longer than half a second it causes others not moving or running backwards to fall over with the user's spiriting momentum, and you give away a free as a result.

I'll see what works with the gameplay. Easiest option I think is to have it so that if the player is running backward, and you decide to run in a different direction, your player changes direction much much faster than how it happens in AFL 23.

Only issue with the collisions and falling over and giving a free is if your AI players do it it could get annoying. It would need balancing. TBH, I don't think it's something I'll add into the game. While it would add to the simulation aspect, I don't think it would add enough to the gameplay to warrant the work and time it would take to get that working correctly

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I'll see what works with the gameplay. Easiest option I think is to have it so that if the player is running backward, and you decide to run in a different direction, your player changes direction much much faster than how it happens in AFL 23.

Only issue with the collisions and falling over and giving a free is if your AI players do it it could get annoying. It would need balancing. TBH, I don't think it's something I'll add into the game. While it would add to the simulation aspect, I don't think it would add enough to the gameplay to warrant the work and time it would take to get that working correctly

Fair enough, I think backwards running for the mark should be more so rewarded if you're in the sweet spot position, and a player running forward shouldn't be rewarded if they're in the same position, if that makes sense? Because they're not facing the ball, the player facing the ball should be rewarded. Although, the player running backwards should move at a jogging slower pace as a consequence and to make it less exploitable.

I think body on body bumping and shoving should definitely be in it for mark contests, as to move your opponent out of marking position, that would be fun and would require more thought into how you get yourself into the right position at the right time, rather than just static placement like all the other footy games. Ie players bodies colliding with each other and moving them back a bit.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I think for collisions, especially at marking contests, players should be able to collide like this 8bit mini game in Bully (@ 3:56 and 4:07) but I would make them move back a shorter distance, or make it dependable on the players size.

 

[game_chromosome]

I think for collisions, especially at marking contests, players should be able to collide like this 8bit mini game in Bully (@ 3:56 and 4:07) but I would make them move back a shorter distance, or make it dependable on the players size.

Collisions are a good idea but having knockback like that, even with a smaller distance would be too video gamey I think and you dont want players bouncing back all over the place in contested situations

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Collisions are a good idea but having knockback like that, even with a smaller distance would be too video gamey I think and you dont want players bouncing back all over the place in contested situations

I think it should be a very short knockback, not a huge one, under less than a metre? Just enough to move a player out of the "sweet spot" position. Maybe only trigger it with bumping?