VFL Essendon v North Melbourne, 2:10pm, Windy Hill

[Yoda_]

One of the better line ups we have put up in recent memory. Small fwd's as small fwd's, key defenders as key backs, even on ballers as on ballers.

Would like to think that although North are going ok (lost to Swans by 6 points, lost to Sandringham by 3 points), the cattle in our VFL 23 is as strong as any likely to see this week.

Oh, and **** the AFL for another cross over with the AFL match. More horrendous scheduling from the powers above

ESSENDON
B: S. Weideman (10), Z. Reid (31), L. Hayes (18)
HB: M. Foley (73), J. Ridley (14), L. Lual (34)
C: X. O'Neill (55), J. Hately (50), A. Roberts (38)
HF: J. Menzie (47), N. Caddy (30), T. Wanganeen (40)
F: J. Davey (36), C. Gray (81), V. Visentini (39)
R: N. Bryan (24), D. Shiel (9), E. Tsatas (5)
INT: B. Scott (77), J. Peris (53), J. Eckersley (58), O. Smartt (83), C. Nyko (65)*
EMG: W. Hoare (51), S. McKay (80), J. Jedwab (68), A. Molan (82)

IN: J Ridley, S. Weideman
OUT: W. Hoare, S. McKay

NORTH MELBOURNE
B: B. Nyuon (28), J. Lienert (67), H. Murphy (51)
HB: B. Davis (50), D. Stephens (15), R. Hardeman (17)
C: L. Butler (49), W. Phillips (29), C. Downie (47)
HF: B. Drury (41), C. Harvey (37), R. Hansen (46)
F: F. Maley (39), H. Greenwood (1), T. Sellers (36)
R: H. Free (45), J. Watkins (56), S. Lowson (77)
INT: D. Smith (72), B. Stevens (65), C. Lord (71), K. De La Rue (63)*, T. Goad (22)
EMG: C. James (69), T. Cappelari (61), T. O'Sullivan (57), L. Wynd (62), A. Noblett (68)

IN: B. Drury, H. Free, H. Greenwood, R. Hardeman, H. Murphy, W. Phillips
OUT: M. Bergman, W. Dawson, Z. Duursma, E. Ford, C. Taylor (AFL), S. Hayes

 

[Yoda_]

Bombers all over the Roos in drizzling rain, have it on the second screen. Eckersley 2, Hately & Grey 1 each

Bombers by 20

 

[Yoda_]

VFL Dons up by 33 points deep into time on in the second

51 - 18

Hately, Grey 2, Eckersley, Nyko & Bryan 1
Ridley 18 leading all comers, Bryan 15 and Archie Robert 12

 

[eth-dog]

Bryan looks like he's dominating

 

[BrunoV]

3/4 time.

The thing to take from this game to date is that Bryan is playing the game that demands attention from senior selectors.

He's sitting on 19 touches, 31 hit outs (v Hamish Free a 26 year old lump who is about 206cm on North's rookie list). He's combined the usual ground level accumulation and quality with 11 clearances, some nice stand and deliver which has produced 2 contested grabs from at least 8 really strong contests. He pulled down a beauty flying from 3 deep a few minutes after being heavily involved in a melee (and possibly starting it). He kicked a nice goal out of the ruck.

Comfortably best on ground to this point. 8-8.5 out of 10. Should have pulled down 2 additional marks. Even in wet conditions.

Best game he has played by a very long way.

Edit: oops, Hately has been a class above all mids on the ground. He might have a claim to BOG.

 

[Yoda_]

Ridley managed after half time

 

[Happyskeret]

Another goal from Nick Bryan. Looks to have played a good game.

 

[FootyGuru]

3/4 time.

The thing to take from this game to date is that Bryan is playing the game that demands attention from senior selectors.

He's sitting on 19 touches, 31 hit outs (v Hamish Free a 26 year old lump who is about 206cm on North's rookie list). He's combined the usual ground level accumulation and quality with 11 clearances, some nice stand and deliver which has produced 2 contested grabs from at least 8 really strong contests. He pulled down a beauty flying from 3 deep a few minutes after being heavily involved in a melee (and possibly starting it). He kicked a nice goal out of the ruck.

Comfortably best on ground to this point. 8-8.5 out of 10. Should have pulled down 2 additional marks. Even in wet conditions.

Best game he has played by a very long way.

Edit: oops, Hately has been a class above all mids on the ground. He might have a claim to BOG.

I think Bryan is ready to be a number 1 ruck, I don’t think he is very useful in the afl as a number 2 because his contested marking and forward craft isn’t there. Goldy looked tired to me today, If goldy is sore play Bryan but not if goldy is fine.

 

[BrunoV]

Davey's game is a write off.

He barely played Q1 and only played Q2 a bit more.

Not sure what is going on but he looks like he can barely move. Not obviously hampered but like he can't get out of second gear.

 

[crackers65]

Caddy and Hayes?

 

[Happyskeret]

I think Bryan is ready to be a number 1 ruck, I don’t think he is very useful in the afl as a number 2 because his contested marking and forward craft isn’t there. Goldy looked tired to me today, If goldy is sore play Bryan but not if goldy is fine.

I see he has only taken 3 marks which is a bit concerning.

 

[brutus76]

Bombers VFL win 15.9 = 99 to the Kangas 6.12 = 48
Went soft in the last letting the Roos kick 4 goals

Nick Bryan, 2 goals, 20 kicks, 5 handpasses, 39 hitouts arguably BOG
Zac Reid 20 touches with 10 marks and surely takes Lav's spot
Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

should be a consideration for MID SEASON DRAFT - only 23yo
Ridley 19 touches and Roberts 23 should def be in the mix

 

[Yoda_]

Davey's game is a write off.

He barely played Q1 and only played Q2 a bit more.

Not sure what is going on but he looks like he can barely move. Not obviously hampered but like he can't get out of second gear.

Alwyn or Jayden cause they both look a way off at the level they played at today

 

[BrunoV]

You often hear that a guy is a VFL level player and I think this is a conclusion misapplied to a player based on accumulation at AFL level, which is impacted on by factors other than player quality.

What I think being VFL standard is, really, is the inability to use the ball in a damaging way regardless of the level of accumulation. From what I've seen, the VFL standard player is not really any more effective / damaging in possession at the lower level, the problem being that of course that will end up worse at AFL level.

Today Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

displayed clean hands and precise kicking all while absorbing physical contact. To me it's confirmation, with the increased degree of difficulty, of what has been suggested by his body of work to date, that he is very likely an AFL standard player. The conditions were difficult, it was very wet in stages and the ball was heavy when it wasn't greasy but he handled the game like a man among boys.

 

[naraku]

You often hear that a guy is a VFL level player and I think this is a conclusion misapplied to a player based on accumulation at AFL level, which is impacted on by factors other than player quality.

What I think being VFL standard is, really, is the inability to use the ball in a damaging way regardless of the level of accumulation. From what I've seen, the VFL standard player is not really any more effective / damaging in possession at the lower level, the problem being that of course that will end up worse at AFL level.

Today Jackson Hately displayed clean hands and precise kicking all while absorbing physical contact. To me it's confirmation, with the increased degree of difficult, of what has been suggested by his body of work to date, that he is very likely an AFL standard player. The conditions were difficult, it was very wet in stages and the ball was heavy when it wasn't greasy but he handed the game like a man among boys.

Agreed.

I have been talking about bring him up at the MSD for a few weeks.
Especially since we won't get Smart.

 

[BrunoV]

Agreed.

I have been talking about bring him up at the MSD for a few weeks.
Especially since we won't get Smart.

Rule changes have run the style of player to the fringe.

 

[Howard Moon]

It would be Mitch Hibberd all over again, there's a logjam for the role, no point coming in to play a lesser role which dosent suit your style

 

[Old Campaigner]

Yeah I don't really see the need to draft Hately, our midfield depth is pretty good.

 

[Yoda_]

You often hear that a guy is a VFL level player and I think this is a conclusion misapplied to a player based on accumulation at AFL level, which is impacted on by factors other than player quality.

What I think being VFL standard is, really, is the inability to use the ball in a damaging way regardless of the level of accumulation. From what I've seen, the VFL standard player is not really any more effective / damaging in possession at the lower level, the problem being that of course that will end up worse at AFL level.

Today Jackson Hately displayed clean hands and precise kicking all while absorbing physical contact. To me it's confirmation, with the increased degree of difficulty, of what has been suggested by his body of work to date, that he is very likely an AFL standard player. The conditions were difficult, it was very wet in stages and the ball was heavy when it wasn't greasy but he handled the game like a man among boys.

his standout attribute is not as good as what the stand outs in his area of expertise are at AFL level.

HEs been tried at 2 AFL clubs with no clear success. Makes one wonder why, does it not?



If im targeting a guy from the VFL squad not named Oskar Smart, its Jarod Eckersley. 20 year old, 192cm utility who was squeezed out by list spots at Gold Coast and came to Victoria in search of opportunities. He has clear ability to influence a match in a variety of roles and this makes me intrigued with what a more mature athletic specimen can do at the higher level in a full time environment.

Anyone else then the obvious Cam Nyko and his wicked left foot and I echo the sentiments from Ant that Matt Foley upon revision is coming with a rocket into becoming an AFL level footballer.

 

[Yoda_]

It would be Mitch Hibberd all over again, there's a logjam for the role, no point coming in to play a lesser role which dosent suit your style

Hately is an inside mid and inside mid only. Bringing him in just pushes someone down the road next year

 

[Yoda_]

Today was a really, really weird sort of game. Had the two screens on so kept an eye on both (AFL and VFL games)

The AFL top liners were really, REALLY good. Bryan as has been mentioned was clearly best on ground. Hit outs, contested marking, worked around the ground for some really good numbers and got forward to kick 2 gimme goals. Liked the rough and tumble when he targeted a north bloke and they responded. Could have gone into his shell but kept on keeping on.

The other AFL listers behind the ball were all really good. Zac Reid looks like he has not missed a beat, so calm and laconic with ball in hand. Id have no hesitation giving him the week back into the seniors against an undermanned Richmond. Hayes, albeit the quietest of the three big names back there was still solid again. His body of work is starting to become a problem with the logjam of key defenders we have as Weidemann is showing some signs of life as a key defender as well.

Ridley is just class and took a fair bit of the setting up behind the play before being managed after half time. I think the club continues the conservative approach and plays him on managed minutes against Richmond VFL and then set him up for a big game back against Carlton.

Roberts was ok, gets himself into trouble calling for the ball when under pressure or not better positions than his team mate. Pretty sure he was caught HTB a couple of times today trying to do to much. Still, 24 possession was a good outing in the shitty blustery conditions. His work rate is elite and this alone should give him a good opportunity to make it.

Nate Caddy had another almost game. Kicked 2.1 but got them late iirc. Still, competes hard, crashed packs and had some really important contests early. I want to see him in much better spots, either 0 - 30m out or 60 - 80m from goal as these are kicking goals or delivering to guys in those hotspots. Wont be surprised to see him come hot and kick a small bag and get us all excited. He loves the contest.

The most disappointing part of a 51 - point thrashing was pending the conditions, the small forwards we had showed almost no pulse for the contest. Understandable that a couple are coming back from a fair way back conditioning but the combined output of 9 tackles and 0.1 is disappointing. Today was primed for them to tear an undermanned Roos defence apart. The VFL guys showed some more ticker imho.

Of the VFL guys, I like what Jarod Eckersley can do, the athletic profile and what he does shows something. I like what Colac star Bailey Scott

8

Bailey Scott

Age

23

Ht

186cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

155.6

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

114.8

2star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

171.6

3star

did with his 21 possessions and big running goal from the centre clearance. And Im a big fan of Cam Nyko as a guy to develop.

 

[Happyskeret]

How did Wanganeen go? I see he did 5 tackles but didn’t hit the scoreboard much.

 

[BrunoV]

his standout attribute is not as good as what the stand outs in his area of expertise are at AFL level.

HEs been tried at 2 AFL clubs with no clear success. Makes one wonder why, does it not?



If im targeting a guy from the VFL squad not named Oskar Smart, its Jarod Eckersley. 20 year old, 192cm utility who was squeezed out by list spots at Gold Coast and came to Victoria in search of opportunities. He has clear ability to influence a match in a variety of roles and this makes me intrigued with what a more mature athletic specimen can do at the higher level in a full time environment.

Anyone else then the obvious Cam Nyko and his wicked left foot and I echo the sentiments from Ant that Matt Foley upon revision is coming with a rocket into becoming an AFL level footballer.

Re Hately, I don't think there is any need to wonder why things didn't work out. At GWS he was near bottom of a pile of 15 mids and then got walked by Adelaide to the MSD because Adelaide and GWS couldn't do a deal. At Adelaide his problem was that his weakness, being on the slower side and weak on the spread, is shared by numerous other players they were running through the middle (a trend they've only just arrested). Throw in a badly timed injury or some bad form and he's done before he even started.

But if he is as good or better than AFL players at VFL level, it stands to reason that he's of the same standard as those players, doesn't it? It's a more reliable comparison when both he and the points of comparison are playing as first rotation mids than what it is comparing guys who are playing different roles at the higher level.

I don't think he is a star, and I've not suggested that we draft him, simply that based on what he is displaying he is an AFL standard player because he is much cleaner with the hardball than most.


I do like Eckersley. He marks well and is strong with the ball and usually a good user / decision maker. I'm not sure what he is at the higher level as he's not settled in position and I don't yet have a read on his speed, general running power. He takes some CBs but seems to be more of an impact player, more like the way we use Stringer than truly being part of the midfield rotation. He might not be athletic enough for half back / half forward at the higher level. He seems to be in the play on the wing, a lot, but I can't say I've seen him line up there much. Is he a big endurance athlete, could he play on a wing? I am watching him with interest.


I've seen little of Smart that I rate. Nyko is interesting. He's dynamic and catches the eye but it's his intensity and physicality that is probably the thing that is most substantial. He reminds me a lot of when we first say Durham but, like Eckersley, I don't have a good read on what he is. Something between wing, half forward and half back.

 

[faible]

But if he is as good or better than AFL players at VFL level, it stands to reason that he's of the same standard as those players, doesn't it?

Some players have skillsets more transferrable to a higher level. We see it all the time with VFL ruckmen, big experienced mature lumps that do well at VFL level because they can grind out stoppages and contests through pure bulk, but lack the ability to go up a level that guys who produce 'lesser' performances at VFL level can. Conversely some players have skillsets that work better with the extra structure and skill of their teammates at AFL level and don't look outstanding at VFL level.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Some players have skillsets more transferrable to a higher level. We see it all the time with VFL ruckmen, big experienced mature lumps that do well at VFL level because they can grind out stoppages and contests through pure bulk, but lack the ability to go up a level that guys who produce 'lesser' performances at VFL level can. Conversely some players have skillsets that work better with the extra structure and skill of their teammates at AFL level and don't look outstanding at VFL level.

In my mind the small and mids you're describing are vanilla, and the talls are meat and potatoes. Not sure my mind separates them, but there you go.

Good, solid footballers, without an edge. Eg Mitch Hibberd and Jackson Hately were both good solid citizens... ie vanilla.