Social Derogatory vs acceptable

[Topkent]

Jetty would have come back in no matter what round it was - especially as Port have a plethora of small forwards and goal kicking runners.

That said, I have nothing against picking an indigenous player largely because it's indigenous round - you know they are going to be pumped for the occasion.

Might be controversial but here we go

I don't understand why I can't say Abbo

Was talking to a guy who's mum was aboriginal and I said abbo an he took offence to it

I don't get it , I call guys johnno ricko davo etc but if I shorten aboriginal to abbo it's offensive

If it's been used as an offensive way to speak to them in the past it's not my problem, I shouldn't feel guilty for the way others use it because to me it's nothing but the shortening of the word

End rant

 

[Dory_77]

Might be controversial but here we go

I don't understand why I can't say Abbo

Was talking to a guy who's mum was aboriginal and I said abbo an he took offence to it

I don't get it , I call guys johnno ricko davo etc but if I shorten aboriginal to abbo it's offensive

If it's been used as an offensive way to speak to them in the past it's not my problem, I shouldn't feel guilty for the way others use it because to me it's nothing but the shortening of the word

End rant

I don't want to derail this thread too much but I think there's a pretty big difference between calling John, Johnno and calling an Aboriginal person an Abbo. To you it might just be shortening it but for an Aboriginal who's been given s**t throughout their life for being an 'Abbo' its pretty clearly going to be offensive and have negative connotations associated with it.

Anyway, OT I agree with you that stopping Wingard won't make too much of a difference. They've got a lot of scoring options - Gray, Schulz, Westhoff, Butcher, Polec, Wingard plus their mids like Boak and Ebert get goals pretty regularly. Tying down Wingard would help but I don't think it'd be a gamechanger; we need a very solid defensive effort across the board.

 

[Topkent]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but I think there's a pretty big difference between calling John, Johnno and calling an Aboriginal person an Abbo. To you it might just be shortening it but for an Aboriginal who's been given s**t throughout their life for being an 'Abbo' its pretty clearly going to be offensive and have negative connotations associated with it.

Anyway, OT I agree with you that stopping Wingard won't make too much of a difference. They've got a lot of scoring options - Gray, Schulz, Westhoff, Butcher, Polec, Wingard plus their mids like Boak and Ebert get goals pretty regularly. Tying down Wingard would help but I don't think it'd be a gamechanger; we need a very solid defensive effort across the board.

I know with in myself that it's just me shortening the word and I refuse to feel guilty for the way others have used it ? Does that mean we can't say gay because gay is used offensively sometimes ?

OT yeah stopping Wingard is great but there are 20 other blokes who are still good
Wingard is slightly over rated in that it ignores how good monfries, Schulz, westhoff, hartlett, boak, wines etc have become

 

[SuburbanMe]

Might be controversial but here we go

I don't understand why I can't say Abbo

Was talking to a guy who's mum was aboriginal and I said abbo an he took offence to it

I don't get it , I call guys johnno ricko davo etc but if I shorten aboriginal to abbo it's offensive

If it's been used as an offensive way to speak to them in the past it's not my problem, I shouldn't feel guilty for the way others use it because to me it's nothing but the shortening of the word

End rant

Oh man,

I lived in Cairns a few years ago, and worked with a couple of abo's. During a conversation one day at work, I referred to them as Abo's and copped some dirty looks, and one girl actually said something to me infront of everyone. She basically called me out as a racist. First off, I was taken aback, then I proceeded to explain that if a White Australian is referred to as an Aussie, it is because it's a shortened version of "Australian", So therefore the Term "abo" is simply a shortened version of Aboriginal.

You could see her trying to work out how to make me wrong, but she couldn't. The reason she couldn't is because the term Abo IS EXACTLY AS I SAID - A Shortened version of the word Aboriginal.

If anyone tells you that you're wrong - tell them to go F themselves.

 

[Topkent]

Also further to the point , if I'm racist and I don't say the word abbo does it make me less racist , and if I'm not a racist and I say the word abbo does that make me a racist ?

It's stupid and it's just causing a problem out of nothing

 

[SuburbanMe]

Also further to the point , if I'm racist and I don't say the word abbo does it make me less racist , and if I'm not a racist and I say the word abbo does that make me a racist ?

It's stupid and it's just causing a problem out of nothing

Do Red haired, white skinned, freckled Aussies that are something like 1/10th Abo deserve land rights of full blooded Abos?

Nope, but they get it.

Does a 34yo Abo have more right to land than a 34yo white aussie born here?

Nope - both are natives.

it's political correctness to the extreme. Just like how Equal Rights is another term for "swayed more towards women" these day rather than Actually being EQUAL.

Anyway - Footy is Great! Hated last weekend, so boring. Thankfully We're back this week!

 

[DJ Spike]

I'm not aboriginal but I know what is and isn't offensive to them...

I know what it's like to live as a minority in society, to be pre judged based on my race...

I know what it's like to have the majority of my relatives raped and killed...

Some naive embarrassing comments going on here.

Stick to football lads, you're way out of your depth.

 

[Topkent]

I'm not aboriginal but I know what is and isn't offensive to them...

I know what it's like to live as a minority in society, to be pre judged based on my race...

I know what it's like to have the majority of my relatives raped and killed...

Some naive embarrassing comments going on here.

Stick to football lads, you're way out of your depth.

But I'm not associated with anything bad that's happened to black people unless you are saying all whites are the same

I don't treat people differently because of skin colour and there past is irrelevant to me

How can we move forward when I'm told I have to treat them differently ? I'm not using there skin colour as a derogatory statement I'm shortening the word aboriginal , if that somehow associates me with people I have nothing at all in common with apart from skin colour then so be it

 

[Djcjdees]

Might be controversial but here we go

I don't understand why I can't say Abbo

Was talking to a guy who's mum was aboriginal and I said abbo an he took offence to it

I don't get it , I call guys johnno ricko davo etc but if I shorten aboriginal to abbo it's offensive

If it's been used as an offensive way to speak to them in the past it's not my problem, I shouldn't feel guilty for the way others use it because to me it's nothing but the shortening of the word

End rant

"Nah nah nah it's ok, we're taking it back."

That's why you can't

 

[Dory_77]

Do Red haired, white skinned, freckled Aussies that are something like 1/10th Abo deserve land rights of full blooded Abos?

Nope, but they get it.

Does a 34yo Abo have more right to land than a 34yo white aussie born here?

Nope - both are natives.

it's political correctness to the extreme. Just like how Equal Rights is another term for "swayed more towards women" these day rather than Actually being EQUAL.

Anyway - Footy is Great! Hated last weekend, so boring. Thankfully We're back this week!

Aboriginal land rights in Australia are a farce at best. Barely any land in Australia is open for Native Title claims and the process itself is extremely difficult for Aboriginal groups to succeed in.
I think you may be referring to affirmative action in relation to 'fair-skinned' Aboriginals (e.g. school/uni scholarships; jobs in certain govt depts etc).
Also re Abbo it's again different to referring to someone as Aussie. Aussie is referring to them as Australian, yes, and isn't making any extra qualifications on that regarding race/colour etc. Abbo has been, and still is in a lot of places, used as an insult/derogation of Aboriginal people. If you've been hearing 'you're a lazy ******* abbo campaigner/typical ******* abbos' regularly obviously the word is going to cause some hurt. I wouldn't go so far as to say the term itself is racist, but it's certainly insensitive. Likewise gay (which I admit I use pretty regularly). You should at least think before saying it.

But I'm not associated with anything bad that's happened to black people unless you are saying all whites are the same

I don't treat people differently because of skin colour and there past is irrelevant to me

How can we move forward when I'm told I have to treat them differently ? I'm not using there skin colour as a derogatory statement I'm shortening the word aboriginal , if that somehow associates me with people I have nothing at all in common with apart from skin colour then so be it

The whole 'you're treating all whites the same/the past is irrelevant' is a pretty thin argument. Again the past experiences for white and Aboriginals in Australia are vastly different. They were treated as flora/fauna in the constitution until 1967. The majority of their cultural traditions have been destroyed and they've lost their most important cultural asset - their land. I'm not saying we need to give everything back to them but to simply say they should move on is ridiculous and ignores the historical and ongoing issues between Aboriginal communities and the broader Australian community.

 

[Djcjdees]

Having grown up in Brissy among aboriginal folk, I find it funny how different the attitude towards aboriginal people is down in Melbourne, particularly when there are barely in aboriginals here, and most Victorians haven't actually had any direct interaction with, ya know, and aboriginal.

I actually find the term 'abo' offensive. Yes, it is an abbreviation. So is the N word (sort of). The problem is, it has been used in a derogatory way for decades. That is why it is offensive. It's kinda the same when Jewish people get a bit upset about calling them a 'Jew', rather than saying that they 'are Jewish.'

Interestingly though, using the term 'black fella' pretty much perfectly fine as long as there is context and you're not saying it with an aggressive tone. Black fellas call us white fellas, white fellas call aboriginals black fellas. Funnily, having gone and worked up in Townsville, Cloncurry, Mt Isa and other places in FNQ last year, it was only when I got back to melbourne that i ran into trouble using 'black fella' - from white people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it is not really up to you as someone who (I assume) is not part of a minority to decide what is or is not offensive to someone else. It is up to whoever it is directed at. Some black fellas probably don't care about being called an abo but I know in the time and place where I grew up, it was used as a lazy and derogatory abbreviation.

This is straight out of Clerks

 

[SuburbanMe]

Having grown up in Brissy among aboriginal folk, I find it funny how different the attitude towards aboriginal people is down in Melbourne, particularly when there are barely in aboriginals here, and most Victorians haven't actually had any direct interaction with, ya know, and aboriginal.

I actually find the term 'abo' offensive. Yes, it is an abbreviation. So is the N word (sort of). The problem is, it has been used in a derogatory way for decades. That is why it is offensive. It's kinda the same when Jewish people get a bit upset about calling them a 'Jew', rather than saying that they 'are Jewish.'

Interestingly though, using the term 'black fella' pretty much perfectly fine as long as there is context and you're not saying it with an aggressive tone. Black fellas call us white fellas, white fellas call aboriginals black fellas. Funnily, having gone and worked up in Townsville, Cloncurry, Mt Isa and other places in FNQ last year, it was only when I got back to melbourne that i ran into trouble using 'black fella' - from white people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it is not really up to you as someone who (I assume) is not part of a minority to decide what is or is not offensive to someone else. It is up to whoever it is directed at. Some black fellas probably don't care about being called an abo but I know in the time and place where I grew up, it was used as a lazy and derogatory abbreviation.

This is straight out of Clerks

No it's not. The Term 'Abo' is regarding their Race/colour, The Term 'Jew' is regarding Religion. The Faith is Judaism, the people are Jews, and the Jewish faith is Judaism. Just like another faith like Catholicism, the followers are catholics and they follow the catholic belief, Islam, the followers are muslim, but they follow the Islamic belief etc...

Far too many people try connecting the term 'Jew' with Racism. These people are idiots. The reason for that is That there are Russian Jews, yemenite Jews, Israelli Jews, American Jews, Albanian Jews, polish Jews, etc...

The Term 'Abo' doesn't ACTUALLY specifically mean Australian Native, It's another name for an Indiginous Person of ANY continent. The inuit are Aboriginals, The navaho, cherokee etc... are all Aboriginals.

'Abo' is a shortened term, and nothing more unless someone couples the word with 'dirty', 'useless', 'savage' etc...

I've spent alot of time with Abo's, both from Victoria and QLD. There are plenty of Abo's in Victoria - just need to know where to look.


Anyway - this is about the footy guys - it's going WAY off track, and I'm partly to blame. So I'm only gonna comment on the footy for now.

 

[Topkent]

Aboriginal land rights in Australia are a farce at best. Barely any land in Australia is open for Native Title claims and the process itself is extremely difficult for Aboriginal groups to succeed in.
I think you may be referring to affirmative action in relation to 'fair-skinned' Aboriginals (e.g. school/uni scholarships; jobs in certain govt depts etc).
Also re Abbo it's again different to referring to someone as Aussie. Aussie is referring to them as Australian, yes, and isn't making any extra qualifications on that regarding race/colour etc. Abbo has been, and still is in a lot of places, used as an insult/derogation of Aboriginal people. If you've been hearing 'you're a lazy ******* abbo campaigner/typical ******* abbos' regularly obviously the word is going to cause some hurt. I wouldn't go so far as to say the term itself is racist, but it's certainly insensitive. Likewise gay (which I admit I use pretty regularly). You should at least think before saying it.

The whole 'you're treating all whites the same/the past is irrelevant' is a pretty thin argument. Again the past experiences for white and Aboriginals in Australia are vastly different. They were treated as flora/fauna in the constitution until 1967. The majority of their cultural traditions have been destroyed and they've lost their most important cultural asset - their land. I'm not saying we need to give everything back to them but to simply say they should move on is ridiculous and ignores the historical and ongoing issues between Aboriginal communities and the broader Australian community.

Again your using the past as part of your argument , I have no association to the past and frankly I don't care about it , the same as I don't care about our English history

You have taken me using the word sob and lumped me in with all the horrible stuff that has happened to them in the last like I'm in someway responsible

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be in the minority but the example you used where you said lazy abo campaigner

So it's ok to say lazy and campaigner but not abo? I don't associate abo with bad things it's people telling me that I can't say it that associates it with bad things

I want to use a shortened word but I'm not allowed to because people I don't know did things

 

[Djcjdees]

No it's not. The Term 'Abo' is regarding their Race/colour, The Term 'Jew' is regarding Religion. The Faith is Judaism, the people are Jews, and the Jewish faith is Judaism. Just like another faith like Catholicism, the followers are catholics and they follow the catholic belief, Islam, the followers are muslim, but they follow the Islamic belief etc...

Far too many people try connecting the term 'Jew' with Racism. These people are idiots. The reason for that is That there are Russian Jews, yemenite Jews, Israelli Jews, American Jews, Albanian Jews, polish Jews, etc...

The Term 'Abo' doesn't ACTUALLY specifically mean Australian Native, It's another name for an Indiginous Person of ANY continent. The inuit are Aboriginals, The navaho, cherokee etc... are all Aboriginals.

'Abo' is a shortened term, and nothing more unless someone couples the word with 'dirty', 'useless', 'savage' etc...

I've spent alot of time with Abo's, both from Victoria and QLD. There are plenty of Abo's in Victoria - just need to know where to look.


Anyway - this is about the footy guys - it's going WAY off track, and I'm partly to blame. So I'm only gonna comment on the footy for now.

Nah I disagree. In Australia, the term 'abo' refers to aboriginals. It doesn't really matter what the word actually means or meant when it was created, it only matters in how it is perceived here and now. Fact is, it is a bit of a no go zone, just like ni--er. Anyway, you carry on using it, I'll carry on not using it.

And I wasn't connecting the word Jew with racism. I was saying that Jewish people I know get a bit weird about being called a Jew. This is my entire point. It doesn't matter what the word literally means, it is how it is taken that is the important bit.

Anyway, good talk. I like talking about this stuff and I think country would be far better off if more of these conversations took place. Even if it is on a footy forum

 

[Dory_77]

Again your using the past as part of your argument , I have no association to the past and frankly I don't care about it , the same as I don't care about our English history

You have taken me using the word sob and lumped me in with all the horrible stuff that has happened to them in the last like I'm in someway responsible

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be in the minority but the example you used where you said lazy abo campaigner

So it's ok to say lazy and campaigner but not abo? I don't associate abo with bad things it's people telling me that I can't say it that associates it with bad things

I want to use a shortened word but I'm not allowed to because people I don't know did things

Everyone has an association with the past. While we may not be as overt in discussing or representing it, everyone does. Where you are now is a product of your past, your family etc and regarding this issue especially I think having some awareness of the past (at least) is extremely important. Many of the problems Aboriginals face are caused by or related to their history of dispossession/mistreatment. I understand that you, I, and the current generation of Australians had little or nothing to do with it but I don't think you can base your argument on an ignorance of the past. You don't need to know the ins-outs off by heart but to completely disregard it, when it is centrally linked to the issue (the use of the word abo), is wrong in my opinion. I'm not saying you're responsible at all, merely that you need to realise that abo is derived from that period of time and was used widely as to insult or degrade Aboriginal people; hence it would still be offensive today given its history.
Regarding the lazy campaigner bit, I don't think calling someone a lazy campaigner is necessarily right either (unless they are one).

Anyway, I think this discussion is just going to go around in circles, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Trav 20]

Also further to the point , if I'm racist and I don't say the word abbo does it make me less racist , and if I'm not a racist and I say the word abbo does that make me a racist ?

It's stupid and it's just causing a problem out of nothing

Nick, I think it's pretty simple. If Aboriginals find the term offensive, for whatever reason, it's best not to use it.

 

[Trav 20]

I know what it's like to have the majority of my relatives raped and killed...

Unfortunately, the vast majority of child abuse and rapes against Aboriginal people over the last century are from within their own community. And not nearly enough seems to be done about it.

 

[Demon 16]

You might not be racist, and you might not intend to be hurtful when you use the word 'Abo', but in the past it was commonly used as a racist, derogatory term and Aboriginal people are still offended by it when used by non-aboriginals.

Its not hard to just not use the term, in order to avoid offending anyone.

When I lived in England, I was quite surprised to learn that the term 'Paki' is deemed very racist towards Pakistanis (there are lots of Pakistanis in England). As is the term 'wog' to black people.

This took some getting used to as I have some Greek heritage and take no offense to the term 'wog' whatsoever, when used here in Oz!

 

[Cannon82]

I'm not aboriginal but I know what is and isn't offensive to them...

I know what it's like to live as a minority in society, to be pre judged based on my race...

I know what it's like to have the majority of my relatives raped and killed...

Some naive embarrassing comments going on here.

Stick to football lads, you're way out of your depth.

Not going to be a lot of conversation if people have to consider whether someone might have been raped, beaten, abused, pre-judged, fired out of a cannon, etc before saying something. Could talk about the grass growing but that might offend any short people reading this. Maybe paint drying would be a safe topic but I could get into trouble if someone asks what colour it is. Would hate to ask if anyone wanted to go for a meal and a beer in case someone with starving relatives in Africa is going to take offense. Given some of the s**t I have seen on Facebook recently, seems like you'll have to spend 10 years at university learning all the myriad ways you can offend any given sample of society with an off-the-cuff comment.

Don't know what you've been through and won't pretend to. If people want to take offense where none is intended, that's their choice.

 

[Cannon82]

This is straight out of Clerks

Clerks 2, unless someone has been sucking dick in the parking lot.

 

[Xtreme]

Eventually you won't even be able to say chewy on your boot when anyone lines up for a shot at goal.

 

[Cannon82]

Eventually you won't even be able to say chewy on your boot when anyone lines up for a shot at goal.

I'm not wearing shoes, you bastard. Think of the children.

 

[Topkent]

Not going to be a lot of conversation if people have to consider whether someone might have been raped, beaten, abused, pre-judged, fired out of a cannon, etc before saying something. Could talk about the grass growing but that might offend any short people reading this. Maybe paint drying would be a safe topic but I could get into trouble if someone asks what colour it is. Would hate to ask if anyone wanted to go for a meal and a beer in case someone with starving relatives in Africa is going to take offense. Given some of the s**t I have seen on Facebook recently, seems like you'll have to spend 10 years at university learning all the myriad ways you can offend any given sample of society with an off-the-cuff comment.

Don't know what you've been through and won't pretend to. If people want to take offense where none is intended, that's their choice.

You completely understand my point, Im not just having a go at abo's aboriginals if you will, Its a broader hate of mine that people just take offence just so they can be offended by something

You guys keep bringing up past atrocities like they are somehow relevant to me when in fact they arent in the slightest
Everyone gets offended by things without actually explaining why, Here it is being said that its offensive because Abo was used as a derogatory term in times when Racism was strong
I am not apart of what was a poor history so why does me shortening the word somehow Infer that I think less of them somehow
That is perpuated by people who are trying to make themselves look culturally sensitive when In fact there the ones who constantly keep reminding us of these differences

 

[d33my]

I'm sorry but I find this whole argument ridiculous. If you don't understand why using the term is offensive, then I suggest it's your problem and not political correctness gone mad. Just because you don't find it offensive is NOT a valid argument for saying it should be acceptable. Check your f****** privilege at the door and have a bit of sensitivity towards cultural issues.

I know I'm not going to change any opinions so this will be the only post I make in this thread but I want to make it clear that I find it abhorrent that some people are questioning why they can't use the term in question. Cheers.

 

[Topkent]

I dont see abo as a dirty word, Whats happening is people are trying to convince me that its a dirty word
Do you see whats wrong about that