Teams Cincinnati Bengals - Who Dey

[MSG77]

Re: Bengals QB Palmer becomes highest paid player in NFL history

Now that I’m done defending Tom Brady, I’ll take an objective look at this deal. It’s actually a pretty good deal for both sides. The bonus money of $24 mil is spread over 8 years, so it counts $3 mil per year on the cap. They’ll probably pay him at least to the $9.5 mil in 2009, and maybe even the $10.5 in 2010. If they want to release him before 2011, they’ll have to take a $12 mil cap hit. Unless the new CBA greatly increases the cap or lessens cap penalties, he’ll most likely have to “Restructure” the deal (i.e. take less money). The length and total money of NFL deals is a joke. Nothing is guaranteed except the bonus money (and the first year). Since this is an extension, there is no real first year money more than what he was going to get paid anyway. Right before he got hurt, Drew Bledsoe signed an extension that was something like 10 years /$100 mil. It’s now about 5 years later and he’s already been traded then released. Still, it’s nice money for Palmer. Since he does seem to be one of the few “Premiere” QBs in the league, it makes sense for Cinci to lock him up. He does seem like he’ll be really good, Cinci better hope he doesn’t get hurt. A few years ago, Chad Pennington was supposed to be the next Tom Brady. Still, if you have a QB who is doesn’t suck, makes good decisions, and is more than a “game manager”, you should try to lock him up. It seems like there are only a handful of these guys in the league.

 

[coasting]

Re: DUMB contracts

If Carson Palmer was so good, why is he an underdog in a home playoff game. Meanwhile, the Pats are a touchdown favorite against a team with 2 more wins than them.

Either you don't have a brain or you haven't read my other posts. I'm leaning towards both. How on Earth do you equate the odds for a game with a QB's ability? Actually, don't answer that, I fear I might lose a few brain cells if I try to understand your logic.

 

[MSG77]

Re: Bengals QB Palmer becomes highest paid player in NFL history

Wrong again! I did read all your posts and I do have a brain. Obviously, the point of being a home dog was only one of my points. If you'll notice, I pretty much acknowledge that Palmer is one of the best young QBs in the game. Still, your contention is that he is second only to Manning, and that Roesthlisberger is a piece of crap. You have a game between two teams with the same record, who each won on each others home field during the regular season, and yet the home team is a 3 point dog. Since homefield is generally considered about a 3 point edge, you would think that if Carson Palmer was much better than Roesthlisberger, he would have much more respect. If the Bengals win this game handily, I’ll give credit where credit is due. My point is, don’t talk the talk till you’ve walked the walk. I realize teams win with more than a QB, but your defense of Palmer’s contract and the ridiculous ascertain that he is better than Brady is based on the fact that he should be a major factor in carrying Cinci. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is so good that he should carry his team to a home playoff victory and warrant using a huge portion of the cap, or he is overpaid and is holding Cinci back from obtaining complimentary pieces.

 

[coasting]

Re: Bengals QB Palmer becomes highest paid player in NFL history

You have a game between two teams with the same record, who each won on each others home field during the regular season, and yet the home team is a 3 point dog.

Haha. Let me explain it to you since you clearly have no idea. The odds for a game are decided by how much money is placed on teams. As more money for a team comes in then their spread increases. The punters could back the Bengals into favourtism but the average moron punter like yourself who probably watches espn and regurgitates Chris Berman cliches about the 'Bungles' don't have a clue about the real talent on the teams. A spread has NOTHING to do with how good a QB is, except maybe in your own deluded mind.

 

[MSG77]

Re: Bengals QB Palmer becomes highest paid player in NFL history

Haha. Let me explain it to you since you clearly have no idea. The odds for a game are decided by how much money is placed on teams.

What is your insistence on focusing on the line. It was a small point in my original posts, only there to illustrate how if Carson Palmer were as good as you claim, and Roesthlisburger were as bad, why would Vegas set a line so different. I know how lines are set, and how it is based on public opinion. How the Bengals have looked like crap the past few weeks (even though the last week meant nothing) and Pittsburgh has looked good (against crap teams in must win games). Still, it follows that of all the first round games, this game is the only one where the home team is a dog. And a 3 seed no less, one that had a chance at a bye if they could have beaten a 5 win team at home two weeks ago. The line is based on where the money goes, but Vegas still has to post an opening line. Obviously, they think the public has no faith in Cinci, but the fact remains they set them as home dog. I could see this line as opening –3 either way. The tendency is for people to bet the favorite, and since home teams have a pretty large statistical advantage, it is advantageous for Vegas to get action on a road favorite. The ideal sitution for Vegas would be to have the line go up for Pitt, then have Pitt win but not cover. They get all the favorite bets and all the moneyline bets on the home underdog. So it obviously doesn’t make any sense for them to do something really out of line on it. They would never make JAX a small favorite vs NE just to get action on them because they don’t think they’ll win. If they did, everyone would bet the money line on NE, and they'd take a bath.

A spread has NOTHING to do with how good a QB is, except maybe in your own deluded mind.

Here is where you would respond with hyperbole like “Obviously you know nothing about football”, but I can tell from your other posts you obviously do. So I will assume making ridiculous statements on message boards pumps up your sense of self worth. To disprove another of your ridiculous points, I’ll respond with hyperbole myself. Here’s an example: Lets say for the sake of discussion that your beloved Bengals were to play each other (on a neutral field). One team has as their QB Carson Palmer. The other has, I don’t know, take your pick- Tommy Maddox, Ray Lucas, Spergeon Wynn, Jonathon Quinn, Alex Smith, etc. Any truly ********ty QB from the last few years. Same team, neutral field, only difference is the QBs. Now try to tell me that QBs have NOTHING to do with the spread. Here’s a more practical example. The Bears with Kyle Orton vs the Bears with Rex Grossman. If you don’t think that change doesn’t affect the spread, then you don’t know football. Football is primarily a game of possession that involves quick decisions making. After the ball is snapped, no other player possesses the ball as much as the QB, and no other player on offense makes as many quick decisions. The QB isn’t everything to a team, but he’s a very important component, probably more than any other single player. To suggest that he has no bearing on the spread is ridiculous. The spread for a game with a backup QB is a lot different than one with the starter. This would seem obvious to someone defending giving said player on his team $24 mil in signing bonuses.

In any case, that’s not the point. This post is about gambling, my first two posts were not. This thread is about Carson Palmer’s new contract, not the lines on the playoffs. There is another thread on that (Not much Cinci support there either). You’re making a strawman argument here. If you cant see that I’ll reiterate for you step by step.

My points
Carson Palmer is a good young QB who hasn’t proved anything.
Cinci was probably right to tie him up long term.
There’s not much difference between Carson Palmer and Chad Pennington at the same points in their respective careers, don’t carve that bust for Canton just yet.
In reality, the numbers on this contract don't mean much after the 2010 season, unless the new CBA increases the cap or reduces the effect of signing bonus penalties.
Tom Brady is a lock for the Hall. He is frequently compared to Joe Montana, not Carson Palmer.
It is laughable that a fan of a team who hasn’t had a playoff team, or even a winning team since, what 1990?, is suddenly throwing stones at Pitt and NE, who along with Indy and Denver, are the Premiere AFC teams of the last 5 years.

Your points
I know nothing about gambling (which I still proved false)

Look, I think the Pats were home dogs to the Raiders in 01. Same reason- team from nowhere with no playoff history, playoff rookie QB . I’m not suggesting that the Bengals can’t or won’t win this game. But when they do, and then win their next 8, then we can talk about how great they and Carson Palmer are, OK.

 

[crazy_big_al]

Palmer goes Down

Not happy about this.

Cheap shot from the Steelers

 

[cjwalkley]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Very typical of Pittsburgh, hopefully this gets the Bengals all riled.

Henry off injured early as well, lucky we have numerous offensive weapons.

 

[MSG77]

Re: Palmer goes Down

This was up here quick, nice job Al.

Certainly didn't look good. Taken to the locker room on a cart.

One of their WR just went down too.

Still, as far as backups go, the Bengals could do much worse than John Kitna.

 

[cjwalkley]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Jon Kitna doing a superb job early. Bengals moving the ball well, and Rudi Johnson just scoring a great TD!

Who Dey!

 

[crazy_big_al]

Re: Palmer goes Down

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...YF?slug=ap-bengals-injuries&prov=ap&type=lgns
Palmer hurts left knee, taken off field

CINCINNATI (AP) -- Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer hurt his left knee when he was tackled on his first pass Sunday in Cincinnati's playoff game against Pittsburgh.
Palmer stood in the pocket for an extra second, giving him time to complete a 66-yard pass to Chris Henry -- the longest pass completion in Bengals playoff history. Nose tackle Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Palmer's leg, causing it to bow inward at the knee. The hit was late and a cheap shot.
Palmer hit the ground and stayed down for several minutes while the medical staff looked at his knee. His face was downcast as he was taken off the field on a cart for evaluation.
Backup Jon Kitna took over for Palmer.
Six plays later, Henry went down with an undisclosed injury.
Palmer made the Pro Bowl in only his second season as a starter, leading the NFL in touchdowns and completion percentage. He started all 16 games this season, playing sparingly in the final regular season game at Kansas City because of was coming off a strained groin.

 

[crazy_big_al]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Kitna doing ok ATM

 

[meltiger]

Re: Palmer goes Down

They seem to be holding up well though, even with Carson out. Kitna appears to be playing well. At least equal to the 'superstar' QB on the other side of the park...

Let's hope IF they get through, his knee injury won't stop him travelling to Denver.

17-7 so far, go Bengals

 

[Moo]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Not happy about this.

Cheap shot from the Steelers

Are you actually watching the game.....the contact was incidental.

Please - cheap shot? Watch the replays and judge for yourself, commentators on CBS reconsidered their opinion.

From NFL.com

Palmer stood in the pocket for an extra second, giving him time to complete a 66-yard pass to Chris Henry -- the longest pass completion in Bengals playoff history. Nose tackle Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Palmer's leg just as he released the pass, causing it to bow inward at the knee.

 

[Moo]

Re: Palmer goes Down

ACL - gone.

Very unfortunate and sad to see.

 

[coasting]

Re: Palmer goes Down

ACL - gone.

Very unfortunate and sad to see.

Thats actually better than I hoped. He should be back by rd1 next year. I feared he had also done his MCL or PCL which would have put him out for next year as well.

We were doing well without Palmer and Henry but now the refs are handing the game to Pitt on a platter. 2 long pass interference calls

 

[crazy_big_al]

Re: Palmer goes Down

CINCINNATI (AP) -- Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee Sunday when he was tackled low on his first pass during Cincinnati's playoff game against Pittsburgh.
The injury ended a remarkable season for the second-year starter, who led the NFL with 32 touchdown passes and made his first Pro Bowl.
Backup Jon Kitna, who has played sparingly this season and will be a free agent afterward, got the chore of trying to lead the Bengals to a win in their first playoff game in 15 years.
Palmer was on the field for only two plays -- a handoff and then a deep pass down the right sideline to rookie Chris Henry. He stood in the pocket for an extra second, giving him time to complete a 66-yard pass -- the longest completion in Bengals playoff history. Nose tackle Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Palmer's leg as he released the pass.
Palmer wears a protective brace on the knee, but it still bowed inward. Palmer hit the ground and stayed down for several minutes while the medical staff looked at his knee. His face was downcast as he was carted off the field and taken inside for evaluation.
Six plays after Palmer was hurt, Henry hurt his right knee during a pass play and had to be helped off the field. Henry went to the locker room for an exam, and the club didn't expect him to return. Backup Kelley Washington was inactive for the game, leaving the Bengals without a proven No. 3 receiver.
In losing Palmer, the Bengals were forced to go on without the player most responsible for their AFC North championship and their return to the playoffs.
Palmer set a club record with his 32 touchdown passes and completed 67.8 percent of his throws, also a league high, in only his second season as a starter. The club gave him a contract extension through 2014 a little more than a week ago.
He started all 16 games this season, but played sparingly in the final regular-season game at Kansas City because he was coming off a strained groin. Palmer hadn't taken many hard hits this season -- he was sacked no more than two times in any game.

 

[coasting]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Now they are saying ACL + MCL again. Multiple tears are bad, could be 18 months rehab.

Congrats to the Steelers, dirty team, but a win is a win.

 

[usalion]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Radio guys are saying at least 10 months for Palmer- probably gone for 2006. We'll know more when the docs get at him.

 

[crazy_big_al]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Radio guys are saying at least 10 months for Palmer- probably gone for 2006. We'll know more when the docs get at him.

Damm it

 

[Grimmett]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Are you actually watching the game.....the contact was incidental.

Please - cheap shot? Watch the replays and judge for yourself, commentators on CBS reconsidered their opinion.

From NFL.com

Palmer stood in the pocket for an extra second, giving him time to complete a 66-yard pass to Chris Henry -- the longest pass completion in Bengals playoff history. Nose tackle Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Palmer's leg just as he released the pass, causing it to bow inward at the knee.

Agreed. Von Oelhoffen appeared genuinely upset to me.

 

[WTTF]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Now they are saying ACL + MCL again. Multiple tears are bad, could be 18 months rehab.

Congrats to the Steelers, dirty team, but a win is a win.

Care to enlighten us on why the Steelers are dirty? You can't be referring to the injury to Palmer.............looked incidental to me.

 

[coasting]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Care to enlighten us on why the Steelers are dirty? You can't be referring to the injury to Palmer.............looked incidental to me.

Sure, it was a legal hit by the rules but highly unethical. He could have easily tackled him without injuring him (he had already thrown the ball anyway) but he chose to grab his ankle and then drive his shoulder into his kneecap thus causing it to buckle. The Steelers always try to come out and intimidate an opponent with a big hit early in the game but they went overboard on this occassion.

 

[Grimmett]

Re: Palmer goes Down

Sure, it was a legal hit by the rules but highly unethical. He could have easily tackled him without injuring him (he had already thrown the ball anyway) but he chose to grab his ankle and then drive his shoulder into his kneecap thus causing it to buckle. The Steelers always try to come out and intimidate an opponent with a big hit early in the game but they went overboard on this occassion.

Pfft

 

[Woodson]

Re: Palmer got poor O-line Protection

The Steelers always try to come out and intimidate an opponent with a big hit early in the game but they went overboard on this occassion.

More the case of making some physical presence than going overboard. The officials should of called a PF on ex-Bengal Kimo Von Oelhoffen's late hit as I was amazed they let that go. BIG BEN got a very similiar HIT late in the SD game that didn't get flagged either IIRC.
The officials were very inconsistant on the Pass Interference calls and the late hit from Bengals #20 (James?) on the half dip shoulder sideline tackle was very dubious (a joke) I admit.
Not much of as a INTIMIDATING PHYSICAL effort by the Steelers this game as you make out Coasting but as long as you can appreciate the WIN by my guys that pressed Kitna to become hesititant and overall we played a safe /smart offense. I didn't underestimate the Bengals D, just a matter of not playing into thier DB hands.

Commiserations on the Palmer but one can never overestimate what a team can do when the INTENSITY level goes up a notch. Cinci have to simply repeat winning the division and win a play-off game to earn the respect back. Until then, the Steelers OWN the AFC North and have unfinished business in the play-offs.

 

[coasting]

Re: Palmer got poor O-line Protection

Commiserations on the Palmer but one can never overestimate what a team can do when the INTENSITY level goes up a notch. Cinci have to simply repeat winning the division and win a play-off game to earn the respect back. Until then, the Steelers OWN the AFC North and have unfinished business in the play-offs.

We'll see. I say there is no way the Steelers will beat the Colts in the dome, they simply will get outscored. The Steelers are not the same team they were last year when they should have made the superbowl. One thing is for certain, there is some real bad blood between the Bengals and Steelers now and the rivalry is going to go up a notch, Palmer or no Palmer.