Expansion Canberra

[Rob]

Yeah I can't see it happening until the BBL becomes a serious destination for quality foreign cricketers. Currently the ******* UAE league is higher on the pecking order.

Until then, more teams would just mean more grade cricketers.

 

[Walshawk]

It wouldn’t be a bad option if it expanded to 10 teams long-term though and allow Canberra and someone else (Gold Coast?) to join so every team plays each other once (5 home / 5 away) for a much fairer competition every year, although the player pool depth would be a massive concern IMO.

No one involved in BBL wants more games. There won’t be more teams.

Anyway, Canberra already hosts two BBL games, so a new team only adds three more. If that is enough for a Manuka upgrade, then the AFL should be pushing Hawthorn to play three games there once they leave Tas after 2027.

 

[Aussie in exile]

The article from last year said "Barr is eager to redevelop Manuka Oval, but said that is dependent on securing a BBL licence". So a BBL side could only be a good thing for Manuka and subsequently AFL.

Also, I know I harp on about it, but it annoys me when they discuss the ACT's population as if we're an island. Especially when they're calling it too small.

I don't expect them to go into the Capital Region demographics, but the city very much flows over the border. Canberra-Queabeyan is more like 510k. You can get from Queanbeyan to Manuka in 12 mins.

Which in real terms means to me no BBL team = no redevelopment of the Manuka oval.
He couldn't justify the costs.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Not really any point in the context of the article. Any AFL team would be at least nine years away, whereas the other teams mentioned are all, potentially, within the next few years.

After the Tassie team comes in the next team in must be Canberra.
There is no justification for any other teams. for a long long time.

 

[Coolangatta]

Which in real terms means to me no BBL team = no redevelopment of the Manuka oval.
He couldn't justify the costs.

An AFL team will justify the costs, it just isn’t on their radar yet. Surely it will be once public discussions about team 20 rise.

The more I think about it, the less I think it should be WA3. The Eagles are the state team, for all intents and purposes.

A new team needs to carve out a region and make it its own - the South West are the only ones capable of doing this, and they are still 25 years away from being big enough.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Which in real terms means to me no BBL team = no redevelopment of the Manuka oval.
He couldn't justify the costs.

At least no major redevelopment in the short-term.

A confirmed AFL team would also justify the costs. An AFL team will bring in much more value than a BBL team.

But a redevelopment before an AFL team would just make entry a bit smoother (and be easier with rugby politics).

 

[Coolangatta]

Cricket ACT’s bold multi-billion dollar bid for a Big Bash team

“Cricket Australia’s strategic plan (2022-27) is underpinned by the ultimate belief that cricket is truly a game for all, a belief that Cricket ACT also shares,” Cricket ACT said.

“In saying this, however, the current governance structure does not truly reflect this belief, in that the Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory are not officially recognised in Cricket Australia’s constitution.

“If cricket is genuinely a sport for all that makes Australians proud (CA’’s vision), then Cricket Australia’s governance structure should be truly representative of the entire Australian population via representation from all eight state/territory jurisdictions.”

You could say the same thing about the AFL.

 

[Tigerlaird]

A-League bid, BBL bid and now AFL. Pretty greedy Canberra ngl. Adelaide should get an NRL team at least.

 

[Bjo187]

A-League bid, BBL bid and now AFL. Pretty greedy Canberra ngl. Adelaide should get an NRL team at least.

You love making weird posts don't you mate

 

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra finally has a couple of prominent supporters.

Jack Steele - St Kilda Captain
AFL captains were asked what they'd do if they were CEO for a day, and Saints captain Jack Steele said: “I would bring in a 20th AFL team and put it in Canberra.”

Broden Kelly - The Footy with Broden/Aunty Donna
On an episode a few months ago, Broden said he supported WA3 and mocked the idea of Canberra as team 20. He received some (light-hearted) backlash from Canberrans. He's since changed his tune, saying: "I think I'd give 20, just because they bullied us a lot last time we talked about this, to Canberra."

Baby steps, but the ball is rolling. I think they're the first public figures to say anything since Jesaulenko around 2006. I hope a publication gets on to Jack to get a whole article on that comment.

 

[Giant YoYo]

If it were to get up, would surely help provide a compelling case for a Canberra team.

 

[Walshawk]

If it were to get up, would surely help provide a compelling case for a Canberra team.

It won’t. Canberra can barely afford a new rectangular stadium, let alone one costing twice as much.

 

[Canberra Pear]

If it were to get up, would surely help provide a compelling case for a Canberra team.

He has good points, but I don't know how much political sway he actually has.

Personally, I'd love it. A purely oval stadium would always have a lower capacity and no chance of a roof, so we could piggy back on other sports a bit. But I know rectangular sports are dead against the idea of a reconfigurable stadium. For years, Canberra has been a rectangular first town (in terms of full-time teams). Might be an interesting shift in the power dynamic though if Super Rugby continues its downward trajectory and we get a BBL team.

But that being said, I quite like the prospect of Manuka's future. Relatively central location amongst pubs and restaurants. Will be along the light rail within the decade. It would have much more soul than a mini-Docklands.

 

[Bjo187]

He has good points, but I don't know how much political sway he actually has.

Personally, I'd love it. A purely oval stadium would always have a lower capacity and no chance of a roof, so we could piggy back on other sports a bit. But I know rectangular sports are dead against the idea of a reconfigurable stadium. For years, Canberra has been a rectangular first town (in terms of full-time teams). Might be an interesting shift in the power dynamic though if Super Rugby continues its downward trajectory and we get a BBL team.

But that being said, I quite like the prospect of Manuka's future. Relatively central location amongst pubs and restaurants. Will be along the light rail within the decade. It would have much more soul than a mini-Docklands.

Interesting the playing surface of Manuka is bigger than the mcg my Canberra mate told me. I never would have guessed that.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Interesting the playing surface of Manuka is bigger than the mcg my Canberra mate told me. I never would have guessed that.

Interesting. Google says Manuka is two metres longer, but three metres skinnier.

I think the size is indicative of the importance that footy has always had at the ground. I notice the southern states typically have naturally larger ovals, while traditional ovals in the northern states (the Gabba and SCG), have been smaller, with cricket the main focus. So that aligns with Canberra's historical leaning towards footy.

 

[LordLucifer]

Just relocate North Melbourne to the ACT ......... Canberra Kangaroos.

Canberra is North of Melbourne.

 

[Bjo187]

Just relocate North Melbourne to the ACT ......... Canberra Kangaroos.

Canberra is North of Melbourne.

It would really be great for the competition. Makes Canberra a bigger club
Reduces the amount of teams in Victoria
Gives North much more growth potential
Allows w.a 3 to be team 20.
Driving distance for Vic fans
Kangaroos the national symbol.

 

[Coolangatta]

It would really be great for the competition. Makes Canberra a bigger club
Reduces the amount of teams in Victoria
Gives North much more growth potential
Allows w.a 3 to be team 20.
Driving distance for Vic fans
Kangaroos the national symbol.

Then I reckon in the 2050s, you could have a third Adelaide team that plays a couple games in Alice Springs and a Northern team that does 7 games in Darwin and 4 in Cairns if they can get funding for a stadium.

Would be a good way to complete the comp.

Everyone plays once + two rivals, keep top 8 system as is.

But it ain’t happening.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Just relocate North Melbourne to the ACT ......... Canberra Kangaroos.

Canberra is North of Melbourne.

Won’t be happening. Been there and done that - Canberra isn’t interested, North Melbourne isn’t interested, the AFL isn’t interested, and the Giants (who are also Canberra’s AFL team) have a long term contract with us to play AFL games here till 2032.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Won’t be happening. Been there and done that - Canberra isn’t interested, North Melbourne isn’t interested, the AFL isn’t interested, and the Giants (who are also Canberra’s AFL team) have a long term contract with us to play AFL games here till 2032.

While I agree the time for relocations has probably passed, I disagree when you say Canberra wouldn't be interested.

If North (or any other Victorian club) relocated to Canberra and rebranded as Canberra, they would become much more popular than the Giants are in Canberra.

I don't think they'd be as popular as a brand new team, but a full-time relocation would garner more support, more memberships and more interest than our current part-time team.

 

[Badger17]

Won’t be happening. Been there and done that - Canberra isn’t interested, North Melbourne isn’t interested, the AFL isn’t interested, and the Giants (who are also Canberra’s AFL team) have a long term contract with us to play AFL games here till 2032.

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. The Giants are not, and never will be, Canberra's AFL team.

Even the people I know that are Giants members aren't really Giants fans, GWS just helps meet the demand for live footy while there's no other option. Punt the Giants and replace them with a local team and 99% of their Canberra based members will jump ship.

Canberra won't miss them anymore than we miss any of the other teams that claimed to be Canberra's AFL team before them.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. The Giants are not, and never will be, Canberra's AFL team.

Even the people I know that are Giants members aren't really Giants fans, GWS just helps meet the demand for live footy while there's no other option. Punt the Giants and replace them with a local team and 99% of their Canberra based members will jump ship.

Canberra won't miss them anymore than we miss any of the other teams that claimed to be Canberra's AFL team before them.

There are some ignorant people here that keep repeating the nonsense about us not being Canberra’s AFL team. Just repeating that does not make it true.

The Giants are indeed Canberra’s AFL team - the club, the AFL and the ACT Government states that we are. Whether you like it or not, Giants will play here till at least 2032 - a 21 year relationship that easily eclipses the agreements we had with other AFL teams.

 

[Coolangatta]

Unfortunately, Canberra missed the boat on the Kangaroos making a full relocation to them by 1995 as proposed by ACT Chief Magistrate at the time, Ron Cahill.

The Canberra Times SPORT Canberra ready to launch bid for inclusion in AFL - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 21 Jul 1993

A finely tuned and polished submission to make Canberra a fully fledged part of the Australian Football League competition will be put ...

trove.nla.gov.au

Footscray and Fitzroy were mentioned in the article, maybe Canberra should've targeted one of them instead, especially Fitzroy.

I mean, everyone always talks about the tragedy of Fitzroy leaving the AFL but South is not seen the same way because they moved to Sydney.

A move to Canberra from North would hardly be a tragedy or death of the club, it's not the same thing as the Fitzroy exit because Fitzroy gave up their AFL license and essentially the club to Brisbane.

As far as the AFL is concerned, especially when it comes to records, the Brisbane Lions are just the Brisbane Bears revamped, much in the same way, what would happen if the Suns handed over the keys to Southport and became the Gold Coast Sharks (not the worst idea!) It'd still be a continuation of the Suns.

The South license still lives on through Sydney. Nothing funky about what counts and what doesn't, they're still the bloods.

And it'd be the same thing for Canberra Kangaroos. Yes, less live coverage in Melbourne, but their members are hardly going much anyway, and it's the TV viewers that count.

I doubt North supporters would be done with them if they moved, they could still have exactly the same colours and the mascot and club song would be almost identical to the original.

But it's too late -- case in point, I do think relocations are a far better option than mergers if you're looking to expand without killing a club or adding too many teams too soon.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Even the people I know that are Giants members aren't really Giants fans, GWS just helps meet the demand for live footy while there's no other option.

But surely this is just semantics. Even if people who will go to GWS Canberra games will say out loud that they are not GWS fans, the very fact that they continue to go to GWS games and buy GWS memberships makes them part of the Giants supporter base, by very definition of the actions that they take going to the games. Even if they claim that they are not supporting the Giants or whatever, the money that comes out of their wallet is still consistently going to the Giants in a manner that's identical to being a Giants fan.

It's not as if there's any particular evidence that Canberrans are dropping off going to games in the same way that Hobart fans are with North games because they don't feel like the team is 'representing them'. And the ACT government appear confident that that will continue to be the case as the basis for what they're paying the Giants in their 10-year deal assumes a level of continued attendance in that time.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Unfortunately, Canberra missed the boat on the Kangaroos making a full relocation to them by 1995 as proposed by ACT Chief Magistrate at the time, Ron Cahill.

The Canberra Times SPORT Canberra ready to launch bid for inclusion in AFL - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 21 Jul 1993

A finely tuned and polished submission to make Canberra a fully fledged part of the Australian Football League competition will be put ...

trove.nla.gov.au

Footscray and Fitzroy were mentioned in the article, maybe Canberra should've targeted one of them instead, especially Fitzroy.

I mean, everyone always talks about the tragedy of Fitzroy leaving the AFL but South is not seen the same way because they moved to Sydney.

A move to Canberra from North would hardly be a tragedy or death of the club, it's not the same thing as the Fitzroy exit because Fitzroy gave up their AFL license and essentially the club to Brisbane.

As far as the AFL is concerned, especially when it comes to records, the Brisbane Lions are just the Brisbane Bears revamped, much in the same way, what would happen if the Suns handed over the keys to Southport and became the Gold Coast Sharks (not the worst idea!) It'd still be a continuation of the Suns.

The South license still lives on through Sydney. Nothing funky about what counts and what doesn't, they're still the bloods.

And it'd be the same thing for Canberra Kangaroos. Yes, less live coverage in Melbourne, but their members are hardly going much anyway, and it's the TV viewers that count.

I doubt North supporters would be done with them if they moved, they could still have exactly the same colours and the mascot and club song would be almost identical to the original.

But it's too late -- case in point, I do think relocations are a far better option than mergers if you're looking to expand without killing a club or adding too many teams too soon.

Unfortunately I just cannot see any Victorian clubs relocating or merging. Norths are far stronger financially now, than when they rejected the AFL package to relocate to the Gold Coast. In addition I believe there are constitutional safeguards that require an overwhelming membership vote for any relocation.