Cameron Green

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the_interloper said:
Comfortably might be a stretch, but if he averages under 30 with the ball and over 40 with the bat (which I think he should) he’d statistically be better, he might even go mid 40s with the stick
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I reckon he could go to 50s with the stick. Bowling mid 30s by the same projection, that batting becomes more important and bowling less so.
 
kane249 said:
Gilly? Mark Waugh? Warner?
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Gilly as an opener had a significantly lower average than both Waugh and Watson, both of whom averaged mid 40's. Both of them were also much better in world cups too.

Hard to compare Warner to either of them too. He plays in the era of the flattest ODI decks and also through the era of only allowing 4 players outside the circle for the last 40 overs.

I'd also argue Matthew Hayden be in the conversation with Waugh and Watson.
 

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the_interloper said:
Comfortably might be a stretch, but if he averages under 30 with the ball and over 40 with the bat (which I think he should) he’d statistically be better, he might even go mid 40s with the stick
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Noone in history has done this (with >100 wickets and >2500 runs) so it would be ridiculous if Green could get there. I don't think its realistic to average sub 30 when you are consistently bowling at second change or as a partnership breaker, but if he becomes more integral to the bowling lineup over time (i.e. once Starc and Hazlewood retire) then maybe he could get there.

On current trajectory he's much more likely to be a batting allrounder, in which case >45 with the bat and <35 with the ball would be an amazing career.
 
melanChronic said:
Noone in history has done this (with >100 wickets and >2500 runs) so it would be ridiculous if Green could get there. I don't think its realistic to average sub 30 when you are consistently bowling at second change or as a partnership breaker, but if he becomes more integral to the bowling lineup over time (i.e. once Starc and Hazlewood retire) then maybe he could get there.

On current trajectory he's much more likely to be a batting allrounder, in which case >45 with the bat and <35 with the ball would be an amazing career.
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Yeah I don't think people appreciate the amount of work that goes into maintaining those sorts of figures.

Even with the talent, so much work goes into specialising that part of your game, so much time.

There's a reason Smith stopped concentrating on his bowling - he knew he he could get more out of himself as a batsman.

It is unrealistic to expect a player to be able to devote that amount of time to being elite in both disciplines. It would take an extraordinary talent to be able to maintain those figures while splitting their focus. Green is good but I don't think it's fair to expect him to be that good.

If he can average 45 with the bat and take a wicket per innings at under 35 he'll be a bit behind Kallis, of the greatest players of all time. That would be an extraordinary career.
 
frankrizzo said:
We have to be realistic as well green will become more and more important to our batting as the years pass which means when he is 50/50 with his fitness they will simply choose not to bowl him rather than risk putting him out of the side alltogether.
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I can see Greenie moving up the order to 4 when smudge retires
 
eth-dog said:
Gilly as an opener had a significantly lower average than both Waugh and Watson, both of whom averaged mid 40's. Both of them were also much better in world cups too.

Hard to compare Warner to either of them too. He plays in the era of the flattest ODI decks and also through the era of only allowing 4 players outside the circle for the last 40 overs.

I'd also argue Matthew Hayden be in the conversation with Waugh and Watson.
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A century and 2 50s in world cup finals.

Reckon Gilly goes ok when the heat was really on
 
The Falcon Strike said:
A century and 2 50s in world cup finals.

Reckon Gilly goes ok when the heat was really on
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I'm arguing degrees of separation. All three plus Hayden were elite in ODI's. That's the point I was making for Watson to be arguably the best.
 
Gilly as an opener had a significantly lower average than both Waugh and Watson, both of whom averaged mid 40's. Both of them were also much better in world cups too.
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Gilly played most of his career when ODI's still had sporting pitches and Mark Waugh averaged 39 in ODI's.
 
Around the Wicket said:
Gilly played most of his career when ODI's still had sporting pitches and Mark Waugh averaged 39 in ODI's.
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It is what makes Viv Richards the best whiteball batsman.

Was so far ahead of his contemporaries.
 

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the_interloper said:
I think overall he should be comfortably better than Shane Watson in both disciplines at least, that would be a good result
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Absolutely!

Peak Shane Watson was a game changer for any test line up. If he can be a better version we will be a tough team to beat for years to come.
 
Around the Wicket said:
Gilly played most of his career when ODI's still had sporting pitches and Mark Waugh averaged 39 in ODI's.
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All of Gilly, Waugh, Hayden and Watson were elite in ODI's. There's a case for all of them. People are acting as if I think Gilly was a shit opener...
 
Around the Wicket said:
Gilly if he played in todays era would average 50+
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You're completely missing the point again. I never said Gilly was shit. I'm saying that he, along with Hayden, Waugh and Watson all have arguments to be made that they are Australia's greatest ODI opener.

I was literally replying to someone who said Green would surpass Watson in every form. Watson was a superstar in white ball cricket.
 
having a cracking IPL at this point in the year. Averaging nearly 50 with the bat, one of the best middle order batsman in the IPL this year. Mumbai will not be regretting dropping the $3m for him.
 
Belnakor said:
having a cracking IPL at this point in the year. Averaging nearly 50 with the bat, one of the best middle order batsman in the IPL this year. Mumbai will not be regretting dropping the $3m for him.
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Yeah great learning curve and he has had some nice innings so far...

Would like to see him bat through at 3 to win the games though...but overall going well with the blade

Bowling he has been going the distance also picking up a few poles....would like to see him mix it up a bit more....slower balls yorkers surprise bumper etc

But Mumbai cannot complain worth the $3m so far
 
Westend said:
Yeah great learning curve and he has had some nice innings so far...

Would like to see him bat through at 3 to win the games though...but overall going well with the blade

Bowling he has been going the distance also picking up a few poles....would like to see him mix it up a bit more....slower balls yorkers surprise bumper etc

But Mumbai cannot complain worth the $3m so far
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Wonder whether he actually spends much time on his bowling? Particularly short form variations

Strikes me as a T20 bowler to bowl his overs in the first 10 when he can just fit a hard length - doesn't have the variety to back end the innings .
 
The Falcon Strike said:
Wonder whether he actually spends much time on his bowling? Particularly short form variations

Strikes me as a T20 bowler to bowl his overs in the first 10 when he can just fit a hard length - doesn't have the variety to back end the innings .
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I think he is still on restricted loads for bowling. From what i've heard he doesn't do much bowling in the nets. Certainly when he was in Perth last year he didn't bowl at all in the nets, just worked on his batting. So yeah he isn't going to have many variations. He doesn't have a slower ball.
 
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