Review Another wasted season

[B4Bear]

Wasted, yeah.

But maybe it was the year we had to have. The club had accepted mediocrity for so long, we needed this season to reset.

New coach, new staff and the Shaw way of playing.

I think that what happened to Daw had a major impact on the club as a whole, not consciously maybe, but an effect none the less.

However, whatever the reason(s), next year should see a great leap forward (TM Mao).

 

[muttley45]

In my opinion, the modern game now means that as many highly skilled, above average paced, 2 way running midfielders as you can muster, (the surplus can be used in hbf, hff, and small forward roles while rotating through the middle), a dominant ruckman, 1 or 2 gun intercept marking types, and a competent KPF and KPD are a good blueprint for success. Not too hard to work out the area we need to bolster the most.

 

[DuckYeah]

In some ways yes, but if I am not mistaken, we are 6:5 under Shaw. Hardly top 4 territory.

Yeh, you could argue the back half of our draw was a lot harder than the first half though..

 

[Tectonic]

The 90s era was a product of exceptional youth development post senior zoning, we made what, 11 consecutive U19 grand finals? It also helped to take advantage of a club like the Swans at the time when they had no idea about youth development, I doubt we will be prying the likes of Carey, Longmire and Allison for chump change anytime again in the future. What we did successfully in the 90s twice was recycle a number of unwanted players and turned them into stars like Bell, Abraham, Pike, Scott, etc. The third time between 1999 and 2005 was a complete disaster from the club towards the end of Pagan's time and early during Laidley's era.

Brisbane do have a clean bill of health, but they also had a soft draw from being a bottom four club the year before and are playing with a lot of confidence which comes from getting a lot of wins, doesn't matter how many potatoes you beat, confidence is a significant tonic. Clubs also likely put as much time and effort post season last year analysing Brisbane as they did Gold Coast or Carlton. They will come under the microscope more end of this year, clubs will try to limit their strengths next year, take advantage of their weaknesses. A lot of those marginal victories can swing next year.

That doesn't mean they can't be a good team next year and beyond, they just have perks this year that they will never get again and it will be a lot harder for them to rack up the wins to make top 4.

A healthy Jacobs doesn't automatically mean we will be top 6, our midfield is too inconsistent and has too many flaws. I will be sad if Jacobs never returns, haven't seen any kind of prognosis from the club that has any kind of confidence about if or when he is going to be able to play again, I've seen more optimistic eulogies than the last interview between Heath and Jacobs.

We need a harder running midfield between the arcs, a lot more scoreboard damage from the mids, them to be more proactive in terms of getting the ball out of a defensive press and a lot more spread on the rebound. We need some natural evolution like LDU, Thomas and Scott become part of the core midfield group and perhaps they can in a year or two give us offensively what we lack atm, Simpkin also has to reduce the variance between his good and not so good games. It means we will need to make structural changes to the midfield group that is currently Cunnington, Ziebell, Higgins, Dumont, Anderson and Simpkin.

Thanks for the in depth response Tas and I will take the time to respond but there's a lot in there and I work long hours.
In the mean time though I think you should take a second look at Brisbanes draw and the their record vs. Top 8 teams.

 

[DuckYeah]

Thanks for the in depth response Tas and I will take the time to respond but there's a lot in there and I work long hours.
In the mean time though I think you should take a second look at Brisbanes draw and the their record vs. Top 8 teams.

Brisbane wins against the current top 8:

West coast early in the season at the gabba
Western bulldogs at the gabba
GWS at skoda
Geelong at gabba

Also played GC twice

 

[Tectonic]

Brisbane wins against the current top 8:

West coast early in the season at the gabba
Western bulldogs at the gabba
GWS at skoda
Geelong at gabba

Also played GC twice

Yep 66% win rate vs top 8 teams right?

 

[DuckYeah]

Yep 66% win rate vs top 8 teams right?

57% to be precise..
Brisbane have performed above expectations, the inclusion of lachie neale and charley cameron in career best form have made a massive difference (plus their list full of talent, filled with priority picks, top 3's and early 2nd rounders etc) however! I am a firm believer Luke Hodge has been more important to that team than anything else, he is retiring at the end of the year and will no longer have that "on-field" expertise, and LEADERSHIP of a Luke Hodge kind is priceless. so saying, when times get tough with a much harder draw, perhaps even umpiring decisions (firm believer 50/50 decisions have been mandated by the afl to go brisbane's way, yes a little bit of tin foil hat, but I have watched 80% of their games, the afl can't have both QLD teams stinky) and no Luke Hodge to pick these young men up, I don't think they make the 8 next year..

my prediction - out in straight sets and miss the 8 in 2020

oh, and Richmond will give them a flat out reality check this weekend!

 

[Tas]

Thanks for the in depth response Tas and I will take the time to respond but there's a lot in there and I work long hours.
In the mean time though I think you should take a second look at Brisbanes draw and the their record vs. Top 8 teams.

They are never getting a draw like they did this year again, not unless they make the bottom four sometime soon again.

The top 4 teams of last year was Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood and Hawthorn. The one team that they were given to play twice was Hawthorn, who took a spectacular dive down the ladder. They played West Coast rd1 in hot humid conditions at home with Eagles having a shorter pre-season, won that. Played Collingwood at home, lost that. Richmond they play away this week, haven't played them all year.

Teams that finished 5-8th last year, Melbourne (only play once at home), 6th Sydney (only play once at home), 7th GWS (only play once away), 8th Geelong (only play once at home).

GWS they beat round 16, injury ravaged, good win nonetheless. They beat Geelong at home which is great but they lucked out not having to play them twice. A bit unlucky they didn't get to play Melbourne twice given their fall from grace.

It was a super draw really, only one team in the top 8 from last year they play twice and they bagged Hawthorn who had injury woes and a big fall from 4th place. Most of these team they play at home where they have a significant home game advantage. Who did they play on the road?

us when we were shit, Essendon (lost that), Gold Coast, Dogs (lost that), Fremantle (lost that), Carlton (lol lost that), St Kilda (won that), GWS (injury hit, won that), Port (flaky Port, won that), Hawks (won that)... still to play Richmond.

The average ladder position of the teams they have beaten at the time they played them, allocating Eagles as #1 for being premiers was an average of 10.00. Average ladder position based on current position is 10.67, it isn't anything spectacular, they just havent played the better teams a lot and the vast majority of them were at home.

I hope Richmond beats them and Eagles put Hawks to the sword, it will make Brisbane end up in 3rd spot, lets see how many decent teams they beat on the road come finals.

 

[DuckYeah]

in follow up to my previous post;

Us Vs top 8 teams

Brisbane - coulda/shoulda/wouldas we had the chances to knock them off twice
Geelong - First time we played them we blew scoreboard pressure, inaccurate kicking cost us the game.. also Danger has kicked 3 out of 22 on the run this year and nailed the score board twice against us at etihad. The second time we played them ....... No comment
west coast - Gave us an absolute bath after half time
Richmond - We hammered these guys into oblivion, they'd never been hit harder in their lives
Collingwood - Also touched em up more than George Pell on a sunday mass session
GWS - We're the better team on the day but we gave them a decent nudge
* - no comment
Doggies - Gave these guys a bath too!

so the team that sits on top of the ladder has a 57% track record against top 8 and we have an equivalent percentage of 42% however because we aren't in the top 8 our real % against top 8 teams is 37.5%

 

[Tectonic]

I feel like you guys are totally missing my point about luck

 

[Arthur Cloke]

Yes Sir, another season of mediocrity. Its a better pill to swallow. There is nothing more that irritates me than wasted time and the spiralling cost of placebos. I know a lot of you will use Mr Scott as a skate goat, but we all know he was a good coach - if his coaching career was part of a weight-lifting comp, he'd definitely get 3 bright lights in my book.

But at least now we can approach opposition players under the cloak of darkness. I remember when Jim Jong of WB got busted though - why he didn't have a false lullaby lined up still irks me to this day.

And speaking of a wasted season, I actually held a minute of science on my own this morning just to reflect on the death of Dr Geoffrey Edelsten. What a fall from grace - from owner of the Sydney Swans to committing Hairy Carey in a jail cell. It all seems so real. I can still remember bumping into Eddles (that's what me and my mates called him) when we were budgie jumping in NZ back in the day. Eddels was rapt that one of my 14 mates had a ghekko-blaster pumping out Cappers "I Only Take Whats Mine" tune. Within minutes we were all arm-in-arm singing it - there wasn't a dry eye on the bridge. I'll never forget it.

 

[Only Forwards]

We know why and it was rectified mid year.. but it was too late to save the season.. hope we dont see a repeat of behaviour in 2020

We will know by the end of round one.

 

[Only Forwards]

But maybe it was the year we had to have.

We cut a weight from around our necks and hope has returned to Arden St.

Who knows what 2020 brings.

 

[DuckYeah]

Yes Sir, another season of mediocrity. Its a better pill to swallow. There is nothing more that irritates me than wasted time and the spiralling cost of placebos. I know a lot of you will use Mr Scott as a skate goat, but we all know he was a good coach - if his coaching career was part of a weight-lifting comp, he'd definitely get 3 bright lights in my book.

But at least now we can approach opposition players under the cloak of darkness. I remember when Jim Jong of WB got busted though - why he didn't have a false lullaby lined up still irks me to this day.

And speaking of a wasted season, I actually held a minute of science on my own this morning just to reflect on the death of Dr Geoffrey Edelsten. What a fall from grace - from owner of the Sydney Swans to committing Hairy Carey in a jail cell. It all seems so real. I can still remember bumping into Eddles (that's what me and my mates called him) when we were budgie jumping in NZ back in the day. Eddels was rapt that one of my 14 mates had a ghekko-blaster pumping out Cappers "I Only Take Whats Mine" tune. Within minutes we were all arm-in-arm singing it - there wasn't a dry eye on the bridge. I'll never forget it.

Yeh, he wasnt bad.. he was the person we needed at the time we needed him.. we needed someone good with the media to market the club and move forward...

10 years later, we realised we needed a coach

 

[Snake_Baker]

North v top 8

Brisbane - We were robbed
Geelong - Inefficiency & putrid umpiring is the only reason we didn't beat them 1st time around
West coast - Got caught on the spread over there.
Richmond - We thumped
Collingwood - We thumped
GWS - Inefficiency & putrid umpiring is the only reason we didn't beat them
Scum - It took the last 30 seconds to beat us with a fluke goal.
Doggies -We thumped

This is why I tell people that we aren't that far off being a contender. If Scamper coached us from round 1, we would be in the top 8 and playing finals. All we have to do is put another year in to the youngsters and inject some pace.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

North v top 8

Brisbane - We were robbed
Geelong - Inefficiency & putrid umpiring is the only reason we didn't beat them 1st time around
West coast - Got caught on the spread over there.
Richmond - We thumped
Collingwood - We thumped
GWS - Inefficiency & putrid umpiring is the only reason we didn't beat them
Doggies -We thumped

This is why I tell people that we aren't that far off being a contender. If Scamper coached us from round 1, we would be in the top 8 and playing finals. All we have to do is put another year in to the youngsters and inject some pace.

There has to be a big improvement in 2020 from the team under Scamper's first proper preseason, a revised game plan that is built around the capability of the players, development of skills and fitness, plus a selection policy that recognises form, matchups and playing conditions in addition to everything else a football team has to do to be competitive.

Scamper's team may still cop a few unexpected losses next year as every other team will but we can all see that North lost games in 2019 without giving a Yelp, as well as a couple of close ones that could have gone our way (or should have). Finals this season after 2-7 would have been a massive boost, but the fact this only became impossible last round is still a great foundation for players and the club to believe that next year is possible.

All of this also proves that the club were correct to sack Scott as coach. A few weeks earlier might have been nice though. Like, after the JLT debacles where this forum was almost unanimous the team were tanking.

 

[Themanbun]

Picked it.

Have a feeling we'll best Carlton next week, then go on a tear and wind up 11th.

 

[amaz199]

When Tas apologises for a long post, you better believe it’s going to be a looooong post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Trip down memory lane:





Credit: Orange Peanut

 

[tazaa]

There has to be a big improvement in 2020 from the team under Scamper's first proper preseason, a revised game plan that is built around the capability of the players, development of skills and fitness, plus a selection policy that recognises form, matchups and playing conditions in addition to everything else a football team has to do to be competitive.

Scamper's team may still cop a few unexpected losses next year as every other team will but we can all see that North lost games in 2019 without giving a Yelp, as well as a couple of close ones that could have gone our way (or should have). Finals this season after 2-7 would have been a massive boost, but the fact this only became impossible last round is still a great foundation for players and the club to believe that next year is possible.

All of this also proves that the club were correct to sack Scott as coach. A few weeks earlier might have been nice though. Like, after the JLT debacles where this forum was almost unanimous the team were tanking.

StKilda JLT 1
Freo Round 1

Both sacked their coach

If we keep looking back on 2019 we’ll only discover endless anger towards Brad

Achieves nothing now

 

[giantroo]

From Robbo's tackle piece

Dislike:

7. What could have been

North Melbourne started the season 2-7, lost coach Brad Scott and won Scott’s last game against the Bulldogs. Including that game, the Kangas came home with an 8-5 record. They finished with 40 points and in 12th position, two games out of the eight. They weren’t good enough to play finals, but if they hadn’t been so meek in the first nine matches September action certainly beckoned. Find a goalkicking small forward, develop another key defender, add class to midfield and a finals finish is not beyond them.

 

[giantroo]

12. NORTH MELBOURNE (10-12, 99.5%)

Three word analysis

Shaw showed signs

What went right

After a poor start to the year and the exit of their senior coach, things looked dour. But Rhyce Shaw came on board as caretaker coach and earnt the top job by winning four of his first five games in charge, including stunning upsets of Richmond and Collingwood. After some had concerns that their biggest stars were on the decline, Ben Cunnington and Todd Goldstein each had stellar seasons, while Ben Brown was once again one of the AFL’s best key forwards. Plus at a club that has in recent years spurned the draft or failed to produce much young talent, four Rising Star nominations proved there’s a fleet of young guns coming through the ranks, with Bailey Scott, Cam Zurhaar, Tarryn Thomas and Nick Larkey all earning nods. The latter three appear likely to become key components of the Roos’ forward line of the future. In the end, having a better second half than first half means there’s a slightly positive vibe around the shinboners heading into 2020.

What went wrong

The Kangaroos dug themselves a hole they couldn’t escape from in the first nine weeks of the season, going 2-7. It was a hole that saw Brad Scott depart as senior coach earlier than expected, bringing an end to his decade-long run at Arden Street. On the plus side, one last win under him against the Western Bulldogs gave him a positive career coaching win-loss record of 106 wins and 105 losses. Then after surging back into the mix the Roos dropped four of five matches, including a thriller against Essendon that realistically put them out of finals contention. They were without Shaun Higgins for six games but really weren’t bitten too badly by the injury bug, meaning a drop from 12 wins in 2018 to just 10 in 2019 was a disappointment.

What they need

The biggest question for the Kangaroos in the upcoming trade period is around their philosophy. Two of their biggest stars, Shaun Higgins and Todd Goldstein, have been linked to exits, but if the Roos can contend for the eight in 2020 why would they want to lose players of that calibre, especially when they have so few? They do have a somewhat ageing core, but it would seem strange to try and straddle the line between contention and rebuilding - that usually just ends in irrelevance. The Roos recruited to try and find outside run in 2018 but arguably still need a point of difference in their midfield.

What time is it on the premiership clock

6 o’clock — This team won eight of its last 13 games and had some extremely promising underlying numbers in the process, but it’s a matter of whether this group can take the next step. They sure could’ve used a big fish over the last couple of years, hey?

Season grade

C-

 

[Long Live the King]

From Robbo's tackle piece

Dislike:

7. What could have been

North Melbourne started the season 2-7, lost coach Brad Scott and won Scott’s last game against the Bulldogs. Including that game, the Kangas came home with an 8-5 record. They finished with 40 points and in 12th position, two games out of the eight. They weren’t good enough to play finals, but if they hadn’t been so meek in the first nine matches September action certainly beckoned. Find a goalkicking small forward, develop another key defender, add class to midfield and a finals finish is not beyond them.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[Hojuman]

Pretty much spot on.

He's copied someone else's homework.

 

[Friday Night Lights]

12. NORTH MELBOURNE (10-12, 99.5%)

Three word analysis

Shaw showed signs

What went right

After a poor start to the year and the exit of their senior coach, things looked dour. But Rhyce Shaw came on board as caretaker coach and earnt the top job by winning four of his first five games in charge, including stunning upsets of Richmond and Collingwood. After some had concerns that their biggest stars were on the decline, Ben Cunnington and Todd Goldstein each had stellar seasons, while Ben Brown was once again one of the AFL’s best key forwards. Plus at a club that has in recent years spurned the draft or failed to produce much young talent, four Rising Star nominations proved there’s a fleet of young guns coming through the ranks, with Bailey Scott, Cam Zurhaar, Tarryn Thomas and Nick Larkey all earning nods. The latter three appear likely to become key components of the Roos’ forward line of the future. In the end, having a better second half than first half means there’s a slightly positive vibe around the shinboners heading into 2020.

What went wrong

The Kangaroos dug themselves a hole they couldn’t escape from in the first nine weeks of the season, going 2-7. It was a hole that saw Brad Scott depart as senior coach earlier than expected, bringing an end to his decade-long run at Arden Street. On the plus side, one last win under him against the Western Bulldogs gave him a positive career coaching win-loss record of 106 wins and 105 losses. Then after surging back into the mix the Roos dropped four of five matches, including a thriller against Essendon that realistically put them out of finals contention. They were without Shaun Higgins for six games but really weren’t bitten too badly by the injury bug, meaning a drop from 12 wins in 2018 to just 10 in 2019 was a disappointment.

What they need

The biggest question for the Kangaroos in the upcoming trade period is around their philosophy. Two of their biggest stars, Shaun Higgins and Todd Goldstein, have been linked to exits, but if the Roos can contend for the eight in 2020 why would they want to lose players of that calibre, especially when they have so few? They do have a somewhat ageing core, but it would seem strange to try and straddle the line between contention and rebuilding - that usually just ends in irrelevance. The Roos recruited to try and find outside run in 2018 but arguably still need a point of difference in their midfield.

What time is it on the premiership clock

6 o’clock — This team won eight of its last 13 games and had some extremely promising underlying numbers in the process, but it’s a matter of whether this group can take the next step. They sure could’ve used a big fish over the last couple of years, hey?

Season grade

C-

We’ve never spurned the draft.

 

[Snake_Baker]

We’ve never spurned the draft.

It's bubble gum.

Don't take it seriously.