Autopsy AFLW 2017 R2 - pies go down to Melbourne in game of 2 halves

[TradeDraft]

1st 2 Games we fell away Badly in the 2nd Half.

That to me is a Huge Worry about our Fitness Level

 

[76woodenspooners]

What I don't like is the fact that when someone knocks the current game it's considered 'not cool'.
God forbid the backlash a current AFL footballer would get if they decided to bag the AFLW.
Gill would make them do an educational course to make them understand the error of their ways.

Do you seriously think it's cool for somebody to imply that the AFLW competition is unworthy of being considered a footy season?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Do you seriously think it's cool for somebody to imply that the AFLW competition is unworthy of being considered a footy season?

It's not politically correct but it's a view many hold but keep to themselves for fear of being shouted down.

The game was largely unwatchable the other night. Time will tell if these players learn basic skills sufficiently to maintain an audience .

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's not politically correct but it's a view many hold ...

Many folks will have judged the standard to be appallingly, laughably, pitifully poor.

Many folks will have decided that the AFLW is not for them, they not going to waste any of their precious time on it.

But I doubt that too many folks will think AFL is unworthy and shouldn't exist.

... but keep to themselves for fear of being shouted down.

Many will keep it to themselves because, whilst they feel that it is not for them, they do respect that it's good clean harmless fun between consenting adults, and it's currently bringing joy to some people.

The game was largely unwatchable the other night.

It's a different game.

Sure, it's called 'AFL', and it's administered by the same people who run the men's game, but it is a different game to what we're used to.

Remember all the nonsense that got spouted about one day cricket and Twenty20 cricket. The purists poo pooed them as "pyjama cricket" and "hit and giggle" and "It'll never last" and "why are we wasting our time on this rubbish?" Much of the establishment still believe that today! And yet the new forms of the game have somehow survived thrived. Why? In part because the different forms of cricket have opened up the game to new markets - new markets that either don't have preconceived opinions about how the game should be played, or who didn't like the traditional form of the game anyway.

Now I'm not suggesting that AFLW will become the global juggernaut that is Twenty20 cricket. I'm just suggesting that there are new and different markets that AFLW can tap into.

It might seem that in AFL mad Melbourne that footy has already saturated the marketplace ... but I read a stat many years ago (wouldn't be surprised if it's still true) that three times more Melbournians go to an art gallery in a year than to a footy game.

Time will tell if these players learn basic skills sufficiently to maintain an audience .

No doubt it'll get better and it'll evolve.

 

[Anzacday]

Many will keep it to themselves because, whilst they feel that it is not for them, they do respect that it's good clean harmless fun between consenting adults, and it's currently bringing joy to some people.

We still talking about the footy 76?

 

[Jasper84]

Many folks will have judged the standard to be appallingly, laughably, pitifully poor.

Many folks will have decided that the AFLW is not for them, they not going to waste any of their precious time on it.

But I doubt that too many folks will think AFL is unworthy and shouldn't exist.



Many will keep it to themselves because, whilst they feel that it is not for them, they do respect that it's good clean harmless fun between consenting adults, and it's currently bringing joy to some people.



It's a different game.

Sure, it's called 'AFL', and it's administered by the same people who run the men's game, but it is a different game to what we're used to.

Remember all the nonsense that got spouted about one day cricket and Twenty20 cricket. The purists poo pooed them as "pyjama cricket" and "hit and giggle" and "It'll never last" and "why are we wasting our time on this rubbish?" Much of the establishment still believe that today! And yet the new forms of the game have somehow survived thrived. Why? In part because the different forms of cricket have opened up the game to new markets - new markets that either don't have preconceived opinions about how the game should be played, or who didn't like the traditional form of the game anyway.

Now I'm not suggesting that AFLW will become the global juggernaut that is Twenty20 cricket. I'm just suggesting that there are new and different markets that AFLW can tap into.

It might seem that in AFL mad Melbourne that footy has already saturated the marketplace ... but I read a stat many years ago (wouldn't be surprised if it's still true) that three times more Melbournians go to an art gallery in a year than to a footy game.



No doubt it'll get better and it'll evolve.

I think a lot of the angst is not with the league itself but the media hype around it. While they have done an amazing job at promoting the game and getting the word out there, some of the commentary and reporting has been so overwhelming positive and one sided that it's borderline patronising.

Things such as calling players "Stars" and "Elite" before a game was even played and an obvious directive to only report positively without mention of the poor skills or low scores in the matches, is a bit cringe worthy.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

The bloke was an assistant at the Dandenong stingrays ffs. Anyone who knows anything about the coaching community knows that isn't exactly a highly regarded position. Probably a volunteer position and or very low paying like most TAC assistants. Mind boggling.

So many of these sort of coaches have had a go at local football and failed miserably. There is a big difference to holding up the board at quarter time compared to running the show.

I've watched interviews with him both weeks we've played and he's both cringeworthy and embarrassing to listen to.

When our opppsition coaches were interviewed, they spoke of structures, they spoke of what they needed to do To implement those structures or what they needed to do to improve.

Our coach simply spoke about playing exciting footy that would wow the fans or that we would kick it to Mo Hope so she could win us the game. Just. My goooooooood.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The best thing I like about it is that the "blame the coach" culture seems to have carried over from the mens game. Good to see some things stay the same.

 

[JB1975]

I think a lot of the angst is not with the league itself but the media hype around it. While they have done an amazing job at promoting the game and getting the word out there, some of the commentary and reporting has been so overwhelming positive and one sided that it's borderline patronising.

Things such as calling players "Stars" and "Elite" before a game was even played and an obvious directive to only report positively without mention of the poor skills or low scores in the matches, is a bit cringe worthy.

Sometimes there seems to be a contradiction between the enthusiasm of the most excited supporters of the AFLW and the standard of play throughout most of the competition, and I think you're right to suggest that it can be somewhat patronising at times, to the audience as well as to the players.

I think that the commentary during games is the most unadorned and most insightful (ie. it squares with what we're watching). For example, when they mention that all of the Brisbane players had to fly back from WA after the game yesterday in order to resume their regular lives, it becomes clear that the transformation of women's footy from various amateur leagues into one professional league has some way to go. And then there's the many stories of players only coming back to the game after motherhood or other sporting or work commitments, or those women who have been selected on athletic ability but who haven't played much/any AFL at all.

As shallow as the pool of elite talent might be at the moment, some of the players are sensational. I was watching Tayla Harris crashing packs and taking marks yesterday and I couldn't believe that she's 19 years-old. Harris and Vescio are the signposts for where this thing is going, and for that reason they're worth getting excited about now.

But your original point stands. What needs to be understood and maybe what needs to be more clearly emphasised is that the women running around this year (and in the next few years) are pioneers. There are many glimpses of brilliance, but for the most part they are playing a rough and ready brand of football which is laying the foundations for the future. And maybe that's the difference between how I watch AFL and AFLW: I watch men's footy for what it is, and I watch women's footy for what it is now and for what it will become.

 

[10571z]

The best thing I like about it is that the "blame the coach" culture seems to have carried over from the mens game. Good to see some things stay the same.

We all started on a level playing field and Collingwood suck. Why? Crap drafting, crap coaching.

 

[TradeDraft]

We all started on a level playing field and Collingwood suck. Why? Crap drafting, crap coaching.

Very Well Said 10571z

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We all started on a level playing field and Collingwood suck. Why? Crap drafting, crap coaching.

Exhibit A your honour

 

[Mkcaptain]

Sophie Casey can accept a two week ban (down from 3) with an early guilty plea

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2017-02-13/magpie-offered-twoweek-ban

 

[F_therest]

Exhibit A your honour

Sure some people go over the top in blaming coaches, but in this case it appears warranted.

If you don't think poor coaching is to blame then what is the reason? Keeping blind faith and not questioning the coaching is also foolish.

 

[cleomenes]

It was pretty clear in the second half (I missed the first half) that other teams have recruited and trained better than us. Their ability to break away from our players, kick further and mark better were pretty disappointing. Same as last week.
The hardness of all players at the ball is incredible. The fierce attack on the ball from women with generally pretty light frames is a bit frightening.
A (Carton supporting) friend suggested that the rules for women's footy can't be left the same as for the men because of this. I see his point, but as far as I can see, the women don't want differrent rules. perhaps experience will cause some changes. Necessary changes in teh men's game are hard to come by though.
The standard of play is pretty variable, with some very good players mixing it with others clearly well below the top standard. It's obvious why the AFL has put expansion on hold, despite the problems this will bring down the track.
As some have already said, Collingwood has not put its best foot forward here, and there will be consequences later because of it.
Recruiting will be pressured for next year.
Crowds have to be planned for, even though a drop off is inevitable.
The timing of the season needs attention, as does its length.
Pay.
I don't think 16 a side has helped anything. Zones looks like the future.
I'll be watching next week.

 

[Greening Magic]

Fair enough. Great for your daughter.
However since this is the first year, what standard were you measuring against. I think that was what was being questioned.

I commented about a posters surprise that the standard was better than they expected, not what I expected.
Currently the womens teams wouldn't stand a chance against a half decent U15's Boys team, so that poster must have been expecting them to be even worse. That's a very low expectation. That's what surprised me.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I think a lot of the angst is not with the league itself but the media hype around it. While they have done an amazing job at promoting the game and getting the word out there, some of the commentary and reporting has been so overwhelming positive and one sided that it's borderline patronising.

Things such as calling players "Stars" and "Elite" before a game was even played and an obvious directive to only report positively without mention of the poor skills or low scores in the matches, is a bit cringe worthy.

You nailed it in one here. It's a over top that makes you cringe. Sam Lane smiling like she's just had her first ever... it's just all so cringe.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Whether the women were playing well or not there is only one team I want to see presenting the black and white stripes to be honest. It's what I pay my money towards. Many will disagree that's fine but Port wearing the black and white stripes didn't sit well with me either. This is all another arguement but just my view.

 

[Greening Magic]

Do you seriously think it's cool for somebody to imply that the AFLW competition is unworthy of being considered a footy season?

C'mon 76er, what you really objected to was TG criticising the AFLW. Not one specific part of his criticism.
But if you wanna go down that path then the answer to your question is Yes.
It's perfectly fine to imply/state that the AFLW comp is unworthy of being considered a footy season.
It's an 8 game novelty 'season' put together to test the waters.
A base for which to grow the sport. If it becomes viable do you think that it will remain an 8 game 'season'. Of course not.
I've had colds that have lasted longer.

 

[JB1975]

You nailed it in one here. It's a over top that makes you cringe. Sam Lane smiling like she's just had her first ever... it's just all so cringe.

Smiling like she's just had her first ever...taste of an AFL women's competition?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sure some people go over the top in blaming coaches, but in this case it appears warranted.

If you don't think poor coaching is to blame then what is the reason? Keeping blind faith and not questioning the coaching is also foolish.

I would need to have the remotest interest not to mention knowledge before responding .

I don't have blind faith. Just blind indifference. But I do find it comical keyboard warriors calling for heads after just two games in the history of this competition

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

The best thing I like about it is that the "blame the coach" culture seems to have carried over from the mens game. Good to see some things stay the same.

Well, from the little we've seen combined with media reports, we seem to have a decent list and we all started from zero in terms of drafting and setting up our clubs.

So yeah, the coaching being an issue seems pretty relevant. If you hear the guy speak, you'll know 100% for certain coaching is an issue.

 

[JB1975]

Well, from the little we've seen combined with media reports, we seem to have a decent list and we all started from zero in terms of drafting and setting up our clubs.

So yeah, the coaching being an issue seems pretty relevant. If you hear the guy speak, you'll know 100% for certain coaching is an issue.

I think we need to see a bit more before we attribute too much to the coach. Coaching was a problem last week, to my mind, but I still think that Carlton would have beaten us, and this week we were just overrun by a fitter and more determined side.

Fitness has been identified as a problem, and our failure to score in the second half for two consecutive weeks suggests as much.

List? Maybe overrated, but I don't really know. Perhaps there was some complacency that we could build success around Hope. I rate Emma King, but the move to sign a ruckman as a marquee player in a competition where the ruck contests so rarely determine a clearance seems odd to me. Other of our players seem too slight or simply not strong enough to hold up over four quarters, and more generally I don't think that our skill level has been at all comparable to any of the other teams I've watched.

This doesn't mean that coaching isn't culpable, but I fear that the problems for the Pies run a bit deeper than that at this stage.

 

[Jasper84]

Sometimes there seems to be a contradiction between the enthusiasm of the most excited supporters of the AFLW and the standard of play throughout most of the competition, and I think you're right to suggest that it can be somewhat patronising at times, to the audience as well as to the players.

I think that the commentary during games is the most unadorned and most insightful (ie. it squares with what we're watching). For example, when they mention that all of the Brisbane players had to fly back from WA after the game yesterday in order to resume their regular lives, it becomes clear that the transformation of women's footy from various amateur leagues into one professional league has some way to go. And then there's the many stories of players only coming back to the game after motherhood or other sporting or work commitments, or those women who have been selected on athletic ability but who haven't played much/any AFL at all.

As shallow as the pool of elite talent might be at the moment, some of the players are sensational. I was watching Tayla Harris crashing packs and taking marks yesterday and I couldn't believe that she's 19 years-old. Harris and Vescio are the signposts for where this thing is going, and for that reason they're worth getting excited about now.

But your original point stands. What needs to be understood and maybe what needs to be more clearly emphasised is that the women running around this year (and in the next few years) are pioneers. There are many glimpses of brilliance, but for the most part they are playing a rough and ready brand of football which is laying the foundations for the future. And maybe that's the difference between how I watch AFL and AFLW: I watch men's footy for what it is, and I watch women's footy for what it is now and for what it will become.

It's a shame the media can't take a page out of your book because your thoughts have an appropriate balance of optimism and realism that they sorely need. I genuinely hope the AFLW succeeds and have no issues supporting it. But I think that some of the media pandering is disrespectful to the players and disingenuous. As mentioned, the game coverage is pretty good. Where I take issue is match reports such as the Brisbane vs Melbourne game where Melbourne were "beaten by the rain" instead of Brisbane being the better side. The players and fans deserve better than that junk.

 

[76woodenspooners]

C'mon 76er, what you really objected to was TG criticising the AFLW. Not one specific part of his criticism.
But if you wanna go down that path then the answer to your question is Yes.
It's perfectly fine to imply/state that the AFLW comp is unworthy of being considered a footy season.
It's an 8 game novelty 'season' put together to test the waters.
A base for which to grow the sport. If it becomes viable do you think that it will remain an 8 game 'season'. Of course not.
I've had colds that have lasted longer.

IMO there's nothing wrong with being critical of AFLW or our AFLW team. I've dished out my fair share of criticism along the journey.

However is a difference between ...

... constructively criticising something because you want it to succeed, you want it to be the best it can be, expressing opinions about how it can improve ...

... versus ...

... totally panning something, wanting to see it fail, being schadenfreude.

Maybe we have to agree to disagree on this one