AFL star’s anti-vax views cost him friendship

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In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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People process 'risk' in an idiosyncratic fashion.

Statistics in the context of vaccination is by its very nature a discussion of probability based on large number or expectations about large numbers or extrapolations about large numbers; and politics, society, governance and the definition of what should or should not be done at the individual level is all about the effect of the aggregate and cumulative actions of large numbers on - large numbers - the population.

Against this is the libertarian notion of individual choice and free will - cornerstones of a liberal democratic tradition - where (in theory) an individual's right to choose is as important and sacrosanct as the 'greater good'

The vaccination debate(s) are all manifestations of the age-old conundrum - the population V the individual.

To one person ANY chance of negative reaction to an unknown substance is a risk too much to consider. To another, a statistically low chance is equal to no chance and anyone who chooses NOT to participate in the greater good is a bad actor and a fool at the same time.

The reality is that an overwhelming percentage of people have put their trust in medical science and got their vaccination - and now the same overwhelming majority cant access required booster shots in a timely fashion - nor can they administer self testing at home as supply is now severely constrained - by incompetence.

Instead of debating the rights of individuals to be stupid/ignorant/uncaring/ etc ( which is an opinion) I am more interested in understanding how a Government that sees it appropriate to hand out (literally 100's of millions of dollars to private companies) can't seem to find the resources to make the necessary resources in vaccinations and tests available to the general population it purports to be protecting.

I have no doubt that the politicization at State levels of border control and lock-ups combined with Federal levels of gross and continuing incompetence have added to people's lack of confidence in these ' leaders' - and made the decision for many reluctant people easier to delay - which is a sad outcome.
 
catscollector said:
...and as we are seeing with covid, it will simply become another yearly strain of the flu we will have to manage.
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But that's the whole point of the vaccine.

It's to allow society to function until COVID does mutate itself into a manageable virus.

That could be months, years or decades away. May not ever happen.

And the need for vaccines and treatments will adjust accordingly.
 
catscollector said:
Yes and influenza has been a deadly disease for well over a thousand years.
I certainly haven't had my flu shot for many, many, many years and as we are seeing with covid, it will simply become another yearly strain of the flu we will have to manage.

As for boosters and more booster shots, one does wonder what is happening to the natural immune system as time goes by.
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oh look, another idiot making the 'its just the flu' argument.

the last time the flu killed in the numbers covid has, communism didnt exist.
 

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JustaBattler said:
People process 'risk' in an idiosyncratic fashion.

Statistics in the context of vaccination is by its very nature a discussion of probability based on large number or expectations about large numbers or extrapolations about large numbers; and politics, society, governance and the definition of what should or should not be done at the individual level is all about the effect of the aggregate and cumulative actions of large numbers on - large numbers - the population.

Against this is the libertarian notion of individual choice and free will - cornerstones of a liberal democratic tradition - where (in theory) an individual's right to choose is as important and sacrosanct as the 'greater good'

The vaccination debate(s) are all manifestations of the age-old conundrum - the population V the individual.

To one person ANY chance of negative reaction to an unknown substance is a risk too much to consider. To another, a statistically low chance is equal to no chance and anyone who chooses NOT to participate in the greater good is a bad actor and a fool at the same time.

The reality is that an overwhelming percentage of people have put their trust in medical science and got their vaccination - and now the same overwhelming majority cant access required booster shots in a timely fashion - nor can they administer self testing at home as supply is now severely constrained - by incompetence.

Instead of debating the rights of individuals to be stupid/ignorant/uncaring/ etc ( which is an opinion) I am more interested in understanding how a Government that sees it appropriate to hand out (literally 100's of millions of dollars to private companies) can't seem to find the resources to make the necessary resources in vaccinations and tests available to the general population it purports to be protecting.

I have no doubt that the politicization at State levels of border control and lock-ups combined with Federal levels of gross and continuing incompetence have added to people's lack of confidence in these ' leaders' - and made the decision for many reluctant people easier to delay - which is a sad outcome.
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theres no debate needed. its because of a classic stingy liberal government who wont spend any money on public services unless it absolutely has to (or some people they know will get financial gain), which would prefer to dismantle any regulation and assistance it provides and simply say 'do it yourself, good luck'. ideological extremism overrides the need for the government to do its job and provide for the people.

so now the states are having to step up and there will be some lag time in getting it all working. all the while the feds will go around complaining about the lack of a national plan and blame the states for not setting one up, ironically despite the fact that as the federal government theyve done nothing except close the borders and purchased a neglectfully small number of vaccines without any cohesive plan to get the country vaccinated.
 
theyellowsash said:
oh look, another idiot making the 'its just the flu' argument.

the last time the flu killed in the numbers covid has, communism didnt exist.
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You say 'idiot' a lot of the time when you disagree with other people's opinions . . .

theyellowsash said:
are you an idiot?
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theyellowsash said:
You're an idiot.
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theyellowsash said:
You're an idiot. I'm not even going to try and be polite. You're just a ******* moron
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theyellowsash said:
Looks like he is a trumpian idiot then.
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theyellowsash said:
What idiot would choose treatment over prevention.
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theyellowsash said:
Sounds to me like the idiot has fallen in with the 'trump made the vaccines
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theyellowsash said:
What kind of idiot are you?
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theyellowsash said:
******* conservative idiots
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theyellowsash said:
just a very very loud and absolute minority of idiots
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Forward Press said:
Anti-vaxxers are now labelling themselves 'vaccine hesitant' but whenever a reason for their hesitancy is challenged successfully, they shift the goalposts.

First it was experimental technology, then when trials were successful they needed real world data. Then when billions were administered with great success they claimed 'traditional' ones like Novavax were better. Then when it gets approved they will cite it's known side effects. Then when the side effects compared to the benefits are shown to be insignificant they will claim COVID is now endemic and their immune response is better. Then when studies and real world data show that vaccination is far preferable to actually getting it they will go onto something else to put off getting a jab.

Make no mistake, they are anti-vaxxers.
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Good post.
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
?

I know two small business owners who who were forced to close and went broke before COVID, due to staff calling in sick and/or not showing up.

This was pre-COVID.

Sickies cost the economy over $6b in 2018.


For argument's sake, let's pretend that COVID is just a flu.
This fantasy that the world can just roll on as normal with every single person catching the flu every couple of months is hilarious.

Try running a small business, or even a big business, with half your workforce calling in sick every day.
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The economies that have seen the biggest drops during the pandemic have been the one's hardest hit by the virus itself. The restrictions which people decried for economic reasons actually helped economies because they stopped them getting smashed by the virus.
 

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Whilst there are a variety of reasons some choose not to take the vaccine, many do have one thing in common...they beg for the vaccine, any vaccine with their last breaths as they're being wheeled into the ICU.
 
If you want to name call and hurl abuse, either side of the vax arguement, you willbe threadbanned and maybe infracted.
Use the report button so we see it instead of quoting and making it worse to clean up.
Thanks.
 
Taylor Moss said:
Sad?
Bloody piss funny if you ask me.

I just hope they’re all true.
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I will acknowledge that I am probably in the minority. Nothing funny about death. And not in these circumstances.

There are sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunties that are burying their loved ones.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Taylor Moss said:
Meh.

Hitler, Dahmer, Buddy, Gacey, Fritzl….they’re all sons, brothers etc.

World is better off without them.

And anti-vaccers are just as dangerous as that lot. Why not rejoice in their deaths?
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Because a lot of anti-vaxxers (including most of the people on that site) are human beings who have been targeted by internet based propaganda, misinformation and grifters. Many of them self evidently come from low socio-economic backgrounds, or have mental health issues.

They're vulnerable.

It's hard to have sympathy here, but they all died in horrible ways, after being brainwashed via social media algorithms.

I reserve my lack of sympathy and true hatred for the grifters themselves. The Tucker Carlsons, Alex Joneses and similar *******s, who profit via the deliberate targeting of these people.

Them and the doctors. They should ******* know better.
 
Wishing or enjoying the death or illness of anyone is not cool, it’s also not what we want to see on Bigfooty so keep it civilised no matter what your views on vaccines are.
 
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