List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[ubiquitous226]

No it was Taylor's direct comparison that got the ball rolling. Plus trying to make the Cerra trade out to be a Hogan type error.

I think we agree - it's about the bigger picture.

Personally think history will say Cerra & Jackson will turn out to be pivotal moments in our clubs attempt at a flag.

Taylor's great, I don't pay attention to any trade prices she mentions though

In the end the main issue with the Jackson price is us not performing otherwise it'd still be ok.
Like Snuff says, it could still be cheap but we overpaid.

 

[freo_leo29]

No it was Taylor's direct comparison that got the ball rolling. Plus trying to make the Cerra trade out to be a Hogan type error.

I think we agree - it's about the bigger picture.

Personally think history will say Cerra & Jackson will turn out to be pivotal moments in our clubs attempt at a flag.

If Carlton win tonight then Cerra will be a pivotal moment in Carlton winning a flag tbh

Will win the Norm if they make it

 

[Bigger]

And Hawthorn just happened to have pick 1 when Hodge was there and 2 top 5 picks (one a priority) the year other teams were stupid enough to take Tambling, Deledio & Griffin in the top 4 leaving them Franklyn at 5 after having taken Roughhead at 2.

They had a lot of high picks after bottoming right out for a few years & put together their premiership list during that period. They picked up the likes of Birchall, Lewis, Gilham, Rioli all with first rounders.

They also picked the eyes out of a bunch of later picks, rookie picks, trades in those years including getting Mitchell for something ridiculous (Lachie Neale effect, 2 short too slow).

They got Breust with a rookie pick.
They brought in Gunston for essentially pick 24. Guerra for nothing except a preseason draft pick. Dew for next to nothing. Young in the rookie draft. The last few mentioned all played in the 2008 flag.

It was a superbly built list with a purpose built gameplan by a coach ahead of his time.

Roughead as a priority pick is what truly enabled them to become a dynasty. Two generational forwards in the one draft! heck me.

PPs, F/S, Academy - these are all mechanisms by which clubs get additional or exclusive access to players denied other clubs.

Most, if not all, of the flags won in the last 20 odd years have been won by clubs benefiting from one or more of these mechanisms.

It’s bullshit really.

 

[Moo]

If Carlton win tonight then Cerra will be a pivotal moment in Carlton winning a flag tbh

Will win the Norm if they make it

You've accidentally clicked on the Freo board mate.

 

[Purple Jesus]

If Carlton win tonight then Cerra will be a pivotal moment in Carlton winning a flag tbh

Will win the Norm if they make it

 

[freo_leo29]

You've accidentally clicked on the Freo board mate.

Cerra played for Fremantle, we got a s**t deal for him so its relevant

 

[Moo]

Cerra played for Fremantle, we got a s**t deal for him so its relevant

I'm just winding you up mate.

 

[freo_leo29]

I'm just winding you up mate.

I just think you forgot this star played for us tbh

 

[Moo]

Mate Jack Darling

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Jack Darling

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31

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191cm

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95kg

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Fwd

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12.1

3star

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7.9

3star

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4.2

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5.0

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3.0

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G

1.9

5star

D

8.0

2star

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4.3

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

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2.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

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6.0

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4.0

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1.4

5star

didn't play for us.

 

[Taylor]

If Carlton win tonight then Cerra will be a pivotal moment in Carlton winning a flag tbh

Will win the Norm if they make it

I said two firsts was fair for Cerra at the time and Carlton fans puked.

 

[Sewell21]

Did I click on the 2021 draft thread?

 

[Bringbacktheeighties]

Key point. Darcy in the side presents the opportunity of Jackson being the most elite player in the game, without him or another suitably decent tap ruck then Jackson is just an average ruckman who can kick a goal.

Which is why I didn’t understand JL not replacing Darcy with another ruck.
Instead we changed three positions.
Darcy, Jackson and Treacy.
Even understanding we didn’t have an ideal back up ruck , we really lost what was building in the forward line.

 

[theGav56]

It was mentioned on here several times last year that we revised our offer after Brayshaw re-signed.

Evidently our final offer had a performance based component that meant Acres could have earnt more here than at Carlton (where all the money was guaranteed).

But he decided to take the guaranteed money.

Quite reasonable for someone not to opt for a performance based contract. Clubs are known to manage selection to ensure that players don't achieve trigger clauses, and we have done that as a club. Players don't have to agree to that. Looking at the entire Acres to Carlton trade scenario it looks like he made the best decision available to him, and that we didn't make the best decision available to us.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Quite reasonable for someone not to opt for a performance based contract. Clubs are known to manage selection to ensure that players don't achieve trigger clauses, and we have done that as a club. Players don't have to agree to that. Looking at the entire Acres to Carlton trade scenario it looks like he made the best decision available to him, and that we didn't make the best decision available to us.

Yeah I don't see any reason to knock Acres at all.

It seemed a questionable decision from Freo at the time, a year in more so with Henry leaving, but presumably there was a logic around the long term options with some potential factor being us thinking we may get Angus Brayshaw.
It still might not be a bad decision, but a lot would have to go right from now for that to occur.

Sometimes that happens though, calls have to get made and they aren't all right.

 

[theGav56]

To be fair I can understand why people like Snuffaluphagus are annoyed with some of the trade prices we have paid/been paid, and it’s when I watch games like last night I know why.

• we are a small fringe AFL club, in the context of the comp which is indelibly centred in Melbourne, rightly or wrongly.
• winning a flag for Fremantle is the cumulative sum of many things. Good drafting. Good trading. Good salary cap management. Having the best coaches. Having injury management that’s good. Finding the best game style. Getting lots of luck.
• it’s not an even playing field across the comp is the key point though. We are outsiders in this competition. Most casual AFL fans have no clue who 95% of the freo list are.
• we are disadvantaged in many areas. If I made a list of the pros and cons to being Fremantle in the AFL, I can’t think of many pros other than potentially getting more WA born players to be attracted to the club. At best, that is a tenuous advantage over big Melbourne clubs. We are losing more WA boys that we are attracting recently.
• the cons? Where do I start. Free agency is pretty much unavailable to Fremantle. Reece Conca is probably our best FA ever. The pies brought in McStay for free last year at 26 years old. A luxury we will never ever have.
• we don’t get to play at the MCG too often.
• our fixture is s**t.
• teams like GC and GWS have massive draft advantages over us.
• we struggle to hold onto players into their late 20s when they are at their peak.
• travel and umpiring.
• there’s a heap more.

So, getting back to the original point. All we can do is accept these disadvantages. Try optimise the one advantage we have if a player like Jackson pops up once every few years.
And then - we got to be better than everyone else in the things that are not pros or cons. Trading is one of them. Trading is the same for all 18 clubs. To compensate for all the disadvantages we have to deal with, we need to be best in the league at trading. Best in the league at drafting. Have excellent development and coaches. We need to be better than 90% of other teams in these areas.

Collingwood can afford to butcher their cap and still play in 2 prelims in the following 3 years, because they are the biggest sporting behemoth in Australia. We would be in the doldrums for a decade if that hope be for us. We don’t have that luxury.

Carlton can afford to burn two top 10 picks in 2017 at the national draft in Dow and Lachie o Brien, but it’s ok for them. They can just swoop in 4 years later and grab the player they should have taken at pick 3 instead of Dow (Cerra) with pick 6 (which slid to 8) and a junk pick, 4 years later when he’s 22 and FFC have kindly done all the developing. He lands into ikon park amd is playing at AA level within 12 months. No harm done for Carlton.

We can’t do that. Hypothetically, if we had in 2019, butchered that draft and selected Dylan stephens and Fischer Mcasey instead of Serong and young - we couldn’t just come in 4 years later and get Serong in a trade to fix our stuff up.
We don’t have that luxury. Big Melbourne teams do.

Basically, we need to achieve excellence in every area to the game, to compensate for the inherent disadvantages we have as a club and then maybe we might be able to jag a flag if we are lucky.
That’s why people are frustrated when we are average to poor in areas like trading, where we need to be the best.

Historically we have been able to trade in some big fish. Headland, Croad, Bell, Farmer, Modra, Hogan, Hamling, Tarrant. Grabbing Jackson is a repeatable trade deal. Weller for pick 2 was ruthless but also set a standard; we just seem to have walked back from that standard.

And we grabbed one of the AFL's best coaches at the time as well in what seems like a surreal but critical moment of our history.

Garlick is a significant appointment for any club seeking to achieve a premiership; professional off-field leadership.

We seem to have reversed our issues in the vital area of health and fitness to almost industry leader territory.

We have a massive advantage over many clubs by being a financially stable, well managed club, with a unique profile. Being in a two team environment is a huge positive.

We seem to have drifted away from our a signature attitude of being a "no excuses" club. We have become vulnerable in home games. We have developed self inflicted weaknesses such as poor 1st quarters, and we have a tendency to apply remedies after the horse has bolted. We have slept through a forward line crisis and are only just beginning to emerge from the slumber.

Many of our weaknesses are of our own making.

 

[Moo]

If Carlton win tonight then Cerra will be a pivotal moment in Carlton winning a flag tbh

Will win the Norm if they make it

So after tonight’s result…..? We now won the trade?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Tom Morris extrapolating the Ralph thing about St Kilda / Essendon compensation thing directly to Henry.

We getting a top 20 pick for Henry, lock it in

Tom Morris' update on all the big AFL Trade Period names

The latest on next month's trade period.

www.sen.com.au

“Essendon is very keen on Gresham. There is some reporting in the Herald Sun around the potential for Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

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182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

to get to St Kilda via a trade and for Gresham to get to Essendon via free agency, and that compensation would then allow St Kilda to get Liam Henry.

“I’m not even sure if that is allowed… but Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

’s name is being bandied around quite a lot. He’s got one-year left on the deal and I’m confident that if a club came to him and offered him two or three years and it worked for Essendon, then that’s something that he and the club would consider.”

 

[King Tenz]

Tom Morris extrapolating the Ralph thing about St Kilda / Essendon compensation thing directly to Henry.

We getting a top 20 pick for Henry, lock it in

Tom Morris' update on all the big AFL Trade Period names

The latest on next month's trade period.

www.sen.com.au

“Essendon is very keen on Gresham. There is some reporting in the Herald Sun around the potential for Dylan Shiel to get to St Kilda via a trade and for Gresham to get to Essendon via free agency, and that compensation would then allow St Kilda to get Liam Henry.

“I’m not even sure if that is allowed… but Dylan Shiel’s name is being bandied around quite a lot. He’s got one-year left on the deal and I’m confident that if a club came to him and offered him two or three years and it worked for Essendon, then that’s something that he and the club would consider.”

I feel like I'm living in bizarro world where Vic journos are advocating for us to get a higher pick for one of our players then what I think we'll get.

Usually these guys are low balling our players.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I feel like I'm living in bizarro world where Vic journos are advocating for us to get a higher pick for one of our players then what I think we'll get.

Usually these guys are low balling our players.

If we do get an outright top 20 pick, this draft must be truly ****ed.

 

[greatgatsby]

I don’t look at other club boards, but do other supporters have as much trouble moving on as we do? FFS!

 

[s_wd6]

Yeah I don't see Henry as worth anymore than pick 35 in a draft to be honest. Thought he was delist material at the start of the year. Getting a top 20 pick for him would be so good. Especially if it's a late first and we get in before west coast's second pick.

He may be an asset for Saints, but I don't see him as a big loss to us in the scheme of things. We won more games with O'Driscoll in the team than Henry despite him playing 6 less games.

 

[Daddoo]

It was mentioned on here several times last year that we revised our offer after Brayshaw re-signed.

Evidently our final offer had a performance based component that meant Acres could have earnt more here than at Carlton (where all the money was guaranteed).

But he decided to take the guaranteed money.

You can't keep everyone. Simple as that.

We have a TON of stars that are going to demand sizable contracts. This isn't the Fyfe show and then everyone else (i.e. one superstar on a big contract and then the rest of the team). Brayshaw, Serong, Ryan, Jackson, Amiss, Darcy and many more players who will be on contracts well above the league mean cost at those positions.

At some point the team needs to prioritize. For me, I'm fine with letting someone like Acres go. Keep your high end talent at all cost. Role players can be found. I still think we could see Fyfe (or Emmitt) up forward which might move Freddy on the wing next year at some point. Chappy and Wagner are also another interesting prospects at winger. We'll figure it out.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Yeah I don't see Henry as worth anymore than pick 35 in a draft to be honest. Thought he was delist material at the start of the year. Getting a top 20 pick for him would be so good. Especially if it's a late first and we get in before west coast's second pick.

He may be an asset for Saints, but I don't see him as a big loss to us in the scheme of things. We won more games with O'Driscoll in the team than Henry despite him playing 6 less games.

Blink blink. You wot mate?

 

[King Tenz]

If we do get an outright top 20 pick, this draft must be truly ****ed.

Say what you want about the draft but a top 20, s**t, even a top 25 pick is a top 25 pick. You're picking guys that are fairly known players plus you always get the odd top 10 slider too.

 

[Righteo]

Say what you want about the draft but a top 20, s**t, even a top 25 pick is a top 25 pick. You're picking guys that are fairly known players plus you always get the odd top 10 slider too.

Yeah I don't mind it. We're going to have most if not all our picks in the range we usually excel at. I'm confident we'll get at least 2 AFL-quality kids.