Saints News 2022 St.Kilda AGM

[Diehard Saint]

Bassat has been around St.Kilda all his life, has a known relationship with Lyon from his prior coaching stint at the club and so it's no surprise to me that Bassat is bringing in people he knows and trusts ie his mates. It's not just a coincidence.

All of which may be true.
But he’s not bringing in some dud just because he’s a mate.
Hes bringing in the most successful coach we’ve pretty much ever had, certainly these past two decades, a smart guy with a proven track record. And one who’s known for his high standards and getting the best from his players.

I can live with this - even if it eventually fails. What I can’t live with is getting another P-plate coach after 11 years of mediocrity.

“What we are after……should be characteristics of ruthlessness, no bullshit, high standards, great effort, honesty, leadership and clear communication”

With Ross, we’ve got all of that.

 

[George]

Frankly, I don't have enough confidence in our administration to choose a new candidate. We have been there before and have chosen poorly. Why is this time going to change? And with regards to premiership coaches since 2000, it's collective bias. How many times have untried coaches been appointed since 2000, compared to previous head coaches. The % of premiership winning coaches is only reflective of this percentage regardless, so it's no wonder they make up a greater proportion of the 23 grand finals won since 2000.

Getting Lyon in was the risk, and one well worth taking given our more recent history.

Well that's a good point re confidence of current admin. They don't have runs on the board and the timeline of the Ratten extension and sacking looks pretty amateurish. I don't think Lyon was a risk however, I think it was a safe option from an admin that to me know that another coaching failure will cost them their jobs.

I don't think anyone is deluded about where we are at. Lyon is a proven high level coach who was available. Because we'd made two bad coaching calls in a row we had made it hard to roll the dice again. On top of that standards and systems right across the club were probably close to the worst in the league. We were very unlikely to gamble again. Essendon were in the same boat.

When clubs bring in a recycled coach it's also usually when the club is on the back foot. Carlton bought in Malthouse but did some terrible list management moves that probably cost them 5 to 10 years. Losing Fev, Betts, Robinson and Garlett was pretty much their whole forward line gone at once and terrible choices at the draft and trade table made it worse. They took Daisy Thomas even though he was ****ed.

The statistics for coaches changing clubs and winning a premiership are pretty hard to take much from. The best coaches hardly ever change clubs, if you win a premiership like Bevo, you get a huge amount of room to move. Most clubs will gamble on a new guy before going for a coach without a very strong resume and even still not many get recycled.

Lyon will come in and set up systems that have been proven to extract every drop and he's brought in his trusted crew like Misson to help. The assistants being ex Saints to me is a novelty and probably not what I would have done but if Lyon can manage it and use them how he wants it isn't a huge issue. He's an autocrat so should pretty much use them as his training police.

Jason Blake sounds as though he is much more responsible for the ex Saints and Lyon than Bassat who doesn't seem to be bringing in mates so much as being desperate to find someone who can get in and fix what he can see is below industry standards. We had no idea what we were doing up until recently. So many of the really glaring issues are being addressed and it's hard not to get caught up in the momentum and energy that it's creating.

Yep so again I think we went the safe option. I struggle to see Lyon sharing any of the responsibility but maybe he's changed and I'll be wrong. I hope that's the case anyway. We are trusting an admin to address issues that they oversaw in the first place. I don't have much confidence in it.

Yep agree with this, want to have faith in Lyon but I want our club to come from a position of strength not just rely on what we think will be respected.

I remember 2009 / 2010 going into games expecting to win and having internal and external respect and can understand the desire to want this again.

Do not believe in Lyon being the messiah and everything going to be great with him back. We should have systems in place where we challenge ourselves and at a minimum this should include a model and have the confidences where Lyon develops another coach who is then able to push him out.

Yeah Lyon might be pushing standards now (or that is what we are hearing) but the club should have structures in place where this occurs plus innovation occurs.

We have some players who if honest, we are not sure how good they will be.......Owens, Sharman, Windhager, Gresham, Wanganeen-Milera, Coffield, Clark, Battle, Bytel along with Marshall and King all have potential written all over them. They need game time along with some belief.

Yep agree completely. Don't get me wrong Lyon will straighten us up and at least bring in standards. Players will improve. We will probably play better too. Just think that anyone can do these things if coming from a successful program with the same characteristics but also a chance to be innovative and industry leading so we don't just create a baseline of standards but we go a step ahead of the best sides and build a dynasty ie Geelong, Sydney.

All of which may be true.
But he’s not bringing in some dud just because he’s a mate.
Hes bringing in the most successful coach we’ve pretty much ever had, certainly these past two decades, a smart guy with a proven track record. And one who’s known for his high standards and getting the best from his players.

I can live with this - even if it eventually fails. What I can’t live with is getting another P-plate coach after 11 years of mediocrity.

“What we are after……should be characteristics of ruthlessness, no bullshit, high standards, great effort, honesty, leadership and clear communication”

With Ross, we’ve got all of that.

Yep with Ross we do have all of that but those same characteristics can be found elsewhere, Ross is not the only one that has them and the difference to me is that I don't think Ross will be able to innovate and believe there's a higher chance someone untried does. I'll probably be wrong anyway but just how I see it right now. Hard to have much faith until we play.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep agree with this, want to have faith in Lyon but I want our club to come from a position of strength not just rely on what we think will be respected.

I remember 2009 / 2010 going into games expecting to win and having internal and external respect and can understand the desire to want this again.

Do not believe in Lyon being the messiah and everything going to be great with him back. We should have systems in place where we challenge ourselves and at a minimum this should include a model and have the confidences where Lyon develops another coach who is then able to push him out.

Yeah Lyon might be pushing standards now (or that is what we are hearing) but the club should have structures in place where this occurs plus innovation occurs.

We have some players who if honest, we are not sure how good they will be.......Owens, Sharman, Windhager, Gresham, Wanganeen-Milera, Coffield, Clark, Battle, Bytel along with Marshall and King all have potential written all over them. They need game time along with some belief.

We had some serious issues with most of the footy department areas inside the club. Lyon is a very wily operator and extremely ambitious. He's always good at assessing a list and deciding that it's the right time to move in. I think he's worked out that there is an underperforming element to our list. Injury, poor skill training, past recruiting fails etc, poor use of traded in players etc, have contributed to us not moving forward. He would have walked into the Carlton job too because they were stalled as well. He's going to set his plan and implement his systems and work out quickly where the holes are.

He might not be the messiah but he has an operating system that should get the best out of what's in front of him set up a standard of training, performance and singular vision that should work for who ever comes after him as well. I think that our board has taken a while to work out that the footy department has been bluffing them and now want someone who can be trusted to run a professional operation and give them honest feedback.

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo how about we give the conspiracy theories a rest for 2023 and work on the positives. Finnis and Lethlean spent the soft cap that we could afford and now it has been relaxed and now Lethlean is suggesting we will continue to pay the full cap. RTB has brought in a group of highly credentialled Saints people, the excitement and belief that has created is huge. Finally we have football people making the calls and Lethlean can work at the CEO role earning peoples trust.

Why don't you read what I wrote. Where is my conspiracy theory? I'm saying that we are on the right path, George is saying Lyon is a mistake. Maybe go and **** yourself.

 

[George]

Why don't you read what I wrote. Where is my conspiracy theory? I'm saying that we are on the right path, George is saying Lyon is a mistake. Maybe go and * yourself.

I agreed up until the last comment. Come on man

 

[gringo2011]

I agreed up until the last comment. Come on man

I'm full of Christmas cheer.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm full of Christmas cheer.

Hmm…which Gringo will we get next season?
Pretty optimistic this past year on the whole, despite the season going belly up.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I'm full of Christmas cheer.

And you're on what 9th bottle?

 

[PoppedCorn]

always wondered why some of the big very wealthy members don't chuck a few million in and help reduce the debt
If I was worth 30 mill (eg) I'd sling in 5 of it

 

[George]

always wondered why some of the big very wealthy members don't chuck a few million in and help reduce the debt
If I was worth 30 mill (eg) I'd sling in 5 of it

They probably became rich because they didn't give their money away, but I get your point.

 

[saintmike65]

All of which may be true.
But he’s not bringing in some dud just because he’s a mate.
Hes bringing in the most successful coach we’ve pretty much ever had, certainly these past two decades, a smart guy with a proven track record. And one who’s known for his high standards and getting the best from his players.

I can live with this - even if it eventually fails. What I can’t live with is getting another P-plate coach after 11 years of mediocrity.

“What we are after……should be characteristics of ruthlessness, no bullshit, high standards, great effort, honesty, leadership and clear communication”

With Ross, we’ve got all of that.

Supreme effort and hard work week in week out are non negotiables with the boss…will be interesting which players fail to respond to these!

 

[saintmike65]

They probably became rich because they didn't give their money away, but I get your point.

The club has a history of wasting money & not being fiscally responsible..why would anyone throw money away?
It’s up to the board and executives to get rid of the debt.

 

[saintmike65]

Well that's a good point re confidence of current admin. They don't have runs on the board and the timeline of the Ratten extension and sacking looks pretty amateurish. I don't think Lyon was a risk however, I think it was a safe option from an admin that to me know that another coaching failure will cost them their jobs.


Yep so again I think we went the safe option. I struggle to see Lyon sharing any of the responsibility but maybe he's changed and I'll be wrong. I hope that's the case anyway. We are trusting an admin to address issues that they oversaw in the first place. I don't have much confidence in it.


Yep agree completely. Don't get me wrong Lyon will straighten us up and at least bring in standards. Players will improve. We will probably play better too. Just think that anyone can do these things if coming from a successful program with the same characteristics but also a chance to be innovative and industry leading so we don't just create a baseline of standards but we go a step ahead of the best sides and build a dynasty ie Geelong, Sydney.


Yep with Ross we do have all of that but those same characteristics can be found elsewhere, Ross is not the only one that has them and the difference to me is that I don't think Ross will be able to innovate and believe there's a higher chance someone untried does. I'll probably be wrong anyway but just how I see it right now. Hard to have much faith until we play.

Top shelf coaches are hard to find…the boss is one of them, so we’re in good hands.

 

[jwikked]

always wondered why some of the big very wealthy members don't chuck a few million in and help reduce the debt
If I was worth 30 mill (eg) I'd sling in 5 of it

I always dreamed that if I hit it big, I’d purchase the sponsorship slots on the guernsey so we could have a large saints logo on the front and no bullshit logos

 

[George]

The club has a history of wasting money & not being fiscally responsible..why would anyone throw money away?
It’s up to the board and executives to get rid of the debt.

That's my opinion on it too.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Supreme effort and hard work week in week out are non negotiables with the boss…will be interesting which players fail to respond to these!

I don't think there's any issue with players work ethic. One of the coaches said in a recent interview that the boys were plenty fit enough so they could go straight to 100% in the new training regime.
We also saw that the wins in the 1st half were underpinned by superior fittness and losint that advantage was part of the problem in the 2nd half.
I expect the players know the reality and will be brimming at the opportunity to step things up. They all wanted a premiership the day they were drafted..

 

[Mowman]

Yep with Ross we do have all of that but those same characteristics can be found elsewhere,

Where and Who ?

 

[George]

Where and Who ?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Ross isn't the only one in the AFL coaching space that has those attributes, if we wanted to set standards and instill ruthlessness we could do that with an assistant that has been part of a successful program. Poaching someone from a Geelong, Sydney, Melbourne, Richmond etc is what I would've done (I was big on us going after Nigel Lappin for example), with the chance that that person becomes the next coach to change how the game is played, bring innovation, etc. There's definitely the chance that that goes **** up and it pushes us even further back, but I reckon there's more a chance that we strike gold doing it that way as opposed to bringing in someone who's had a go already. And in the case of Lappin, he's won 6 flags across two dynasties - coached by Leigh Matthews for 3 of them (from 4 attempts) and then as a coach in a Geelong side that has been pushing top four and winning flags for 15 years (he was a part of '09, '11, '22 and GF in '20)

We did the same thing in 2007 when we brought Ross in from his assistant role at the Swans and he fundamentally changed team defense. Clarkson took it a step further, Hardwick after him. All in their first stints as coach. I don't reckon Ross has it in him to to innovate again or even delegate responsibility and I guess I will be proven either right or wrong when we see the side play. And that's not even a criticism of Ross really, it could've been anyone. Same reason I think Scott at Essendon will fail and Clarkson is starting from such a low base at North that I think he'll push them up the ladder but doubt he replicates what he did at Hawthorn (not the 4 flags dynasty of course but just being a premiership contending side).

Just think that ultimately we could've been more open to other options and with the club bringing in all these people because of trust, it seems like a last ditch effort to get the list firing before we really blow the whole thing up.

It's nice to see so many St.Kilda people back at the club but it's hard to get excited given what we dished up in the back half of last season. For the last 6 years I have thought the problem is between the ears and so I honestly feel like I'm just watching us die a slow death. Ross' appointment was risk-free, there doesn't look to be much inspiration behind it, and not going after the best people has left me a bit apathetic. Walsh was the only one I was fully behind - great appointment.

Haven't been more nervous for a season to begin in a long time lol. I'm sick and tired of waiting and after the debacle with Ratten over the last few months have little faith in the admin understanding much of the issues at all.

 

[sammm]

They probably became rich because they didn't give their money away, but I get your point.

Sometimes. However there are quite rich philanthropists.

 

[Remboy]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Ross isn't the only one in the AFL coaching space that has those attributes, if we wanted to set standards and instill ruthlessness we could do that with an assistant that has been part of a successful program. Poaching someone from a Geelong, Sydney, Melbourne, Richmond etc is what I would've done (I was big on us going after Nigel Lappin for example), with the chance that that person becomes the next coach to change how the game is played, bring innovation, etc. There's definitely the chance that that goes **** up and it pushes us even further back, but I reckon there's more a chance that we strike gold doing it that way as opposed to bringing in someone who's had a go already. And in the case of Lappin, he's won 6 flags across two dynasties - coached by Leigh Matthews for 3 of them (from 4 attempts) and then as a coach in a Geelong side that has been pushing top four and winning flags for 15 years (he was a part of '09, '11, '22 and GF in '20)

We did the same thing in 2007 when we brought Ross in from his assistant role at the Swans and he fundamentally changed team defense. Clarkson took it a step further, Hardwick after him. All in their first stints as coach. I don't reckon Ross has it in him to to innovate again or even delegate responsibility and I guess I will be proven either right or wrong when we see the side play. And that's not even a criticism of Ross really, it could've been anyone. Same reason I think Scott at Essendon will fail and Clarkson is starting from such a low base at North that I think he'll push them up the ladder but doubt he replicates what he did at Hawthorn (not the 4 flags dynasty of course but just being a premiership contending side).

Just think that ultimately we could've been more open to other options and with the club bringing in all these people because of trust, it seems like a last ditch effort to get the list firing before we really blow the whole thing up.

It's nice to see so many St.Kilda people back at the club but it's hard to get excited given what we dished up in the back half of last season. For the last 6 years I have thought the problem is between the ears and so I honestly feel like I'm just watching us die a slow death. Ross' appointment was risk-free, there doesn't look to be much inspiration behind it, and not going after the best people has left me a bit apathetic. Walsh was the only one I was fully behind - great appointment.

Haven't been more nervous for a season to begin in a long time lol. I'm sick and tired of waiting and after the debacle with Ratten over the last few months have little faith in the admin understanding much of the issues at all.

You make some good points but there’s no guarantees either way. We tried Watters and Melbourne got Neeld, both assistants under Malthouse when they won the flag. They were both failures. We tried Ratten and that didn’t work.
I don’t think the coach, in isolation, makes the difference. There are so many moving parts in a successful football club.
I just front up each year and hope for the best. We’ve turned a lot of things upside down over the last season or two. At the very least the season should be different and that’s enough for me to get excited.

 

[stavro#4]

I don't think there's any issue with players work ethic. One of the coaches said in a recent interview that the boys were plenty fit enough so they could go straight to 100% in the new training regime.
We also saw that the wins in the 1st half were underpinned by superior fittness and losint that advantage was part of the problem in the 2nd half.
I expect the players know the reality and will be brimming at the opportunity to step things up. They all wanted a premiership the day they were drafted..

Our players don’t understand what’s required.

They haven’t been coached by someone who has taken a side to the big dance before. I’m not referring to being on a coaching panel. But leading the show, making all the big calls etc.

Here is a great non saints example of what a coach who has been there & done that and what he is looking for.




RTB is doing the same stuff at Moorabbin. I think he will go half way through the first praccy before he is visible to the media and fans about being unhappy with a passage of play and you see the real RTB back.

I’ve spoken to 3-4 posters all who know players/coaches and we literally have all shared the same theme. We have all been told by the players/coaches that standards are the highest they have been since the grand final sides and the boys are being challenged with the workload.

The other thing, was to a player. They are all loving it. Goal kicking drills are now competitive etc, players challenging each other during game sims.

 

[lewdogs]

Our players don’t understand what’s required.

They haven’t been coached by someone who has taken a side to the big dance before. I’m not referring to being on a coaching panel. But leading the show, making all the big calls etc.

Here is a great non saints example of what a coach who has been there & done that and what he is looking for.




RTB is doing the same stuff at Moorabbin. I think he will go half way through the first praccy before he is visible to the media and fans about being unhappy with a passage of play and you see the real RTB back.

I’ve spoken to 3-4 posters all who know players/coaches and we literally have all shared the same theme. We have all been told by the players/coaches that standards are the highest they have been since the grand final sides and the boys are being challenged with the workload.

The other thing, was to a player. They are all loving it. Goal kicking drills are now competitive etc, players challenging each other during game sims.

Clarko talking about making sacrifices for the team.... I mean I totally get it but that's a strange choice of words given the investigation.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Our players don’t understand what’s required.

They haven’t been coached by someone who has taken a side to the big dance before. I’m not referring to being on a coaching panel. But leading the show, making all the big calls etc.

Here is a great non saints example of what a coach who has been there & done that and what he is looking for.




RTB is doing the same stuff at Moorabbin. I think he will go half way through the first praccy before he is visible to the media and fans about being unhappy with a passage of play and you see the real RTB back.

I’ve spoken to 3-4 posters all who know players/coaches and we literally have all shared the same theme. We have all been told by the players/coaches that standards are the highest they have been since the grand final sides and the boys are being challenged with the workload.

The other thing, was to a player. They are all loving it. Goal kicking drills are now competitive etc, players challenging each other during game sims.

My point was there wouldn't be any lack of willingness from the players side. The group as a whole lack a proper footballing education from the ground up but that's not a reflection on their work ethic, rather it sits with the club for not providing them the environment in which they can grow and succeed.

 

[George]

Our players don’t understand what’s required.

They haven’t been coached by someone who has taken a side to the big dance before. I’m not referring to being on a coaching panel. But leading the show, making all the big calls etc.

Here is a great non saints example of what a coach who has been there & done that and what he is looking for.




RTB is doing the same stuff at Moorabbin. I think he will go half way through the first praccy before he is visible to the media and fans about being unhappy with a passage of play and you see the real RTB back.

I’ve spoken to 3-4 posters all who know players/coaches and we literally have all shared the same theme. We have all been told by the players/coaches that standards are the highest they have been since the grand final sides and the boys are being challenged with the workload.

The other thing, was to a player. They are all loving it. Goal kicking drills are now competitive etc, players challenging each other during game sims.

Wish our media team does this in 2023. Great access.

I know a couple of North guys and they reckon it's the hardest pre-season they've ever done, a lot of them haven't had a break since they were 'officially' off.

 

[lewdogs]

Wish our media team does this in 2023. Great access.

I know a couple of North guys and they reckon it's the hardest pre-season they've ever done, a lot of them haven't had a break since they were 'officially' off.

Honestly I reckon we should move away from this all access stuff. There's a point where it needs to be kept in house. I get why they put that stuff up, North fans need to be inspired but we've had years of all access stuff especially this year and it turned ugly.