TSL licenses 2014

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flaps said:
Wow, can the opening line of the article make it any more confusing...
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Ever changing story up the coast !
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1721783/joint-north-west-tsl-venture-off-the-table/?cs=88
Joint North-West TSL venture off the table
By CAMERON WHITELEY

“THE shared venture between AFL Tasmania and the NTFL for a new North-West TSL club from next season has been abandoned.
The Devonport Magpies will remain in the TSL next season, with discussions continuing around a model for a new team in 2015.”

Gee What spin will the three Amigos of Argyle Street put on this
 
I'm sure there's plenty of opportunities for Thurley in the Fish and Chips game. His comments would suggest that only players in a statewide comp could possiby be drafted. I suggest he does some history reading.
 

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topgossip said:
I'm sure there's plenty of opportunities for Thurley in the Fish and Chips game. His comments would suggest that only players in a statewide comp could possiby be drafted. I suggest he does some history reading.
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Yes well Clarence players have obviously done well out their relationship with Wadey.
So why would they want to rock the boat, or the fishing boat:rolleyes: .
 
topgossip said:
I'm sure there's plenty of opportunities for Thurley in the Fish and Chips game. His comments would suggest that only players in a statewide comp could possiby be drafted. I suggest he does some history reading.
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Thurley wouldn't get paid money as he does at the moment. Good to see him stick with AFL tas, might be looking for a job at Argyle st when he retires
 
madmug said:
I see AFLTas have revived the Devonport corpse for another season. So much for the powerful AFLTas/NTFL eastern coastal mudskippers:)rolleyes:).

I guess all it takes is a big pile of PED's (Performance Enhancing Dollars!!!!!!!!!!:p)
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Yes Madmug throw the $$$ down the drain for another 12 months, so next year we will Have Devonport going around again a team that don't want to be in the league and until Wednesday thought they would be in the NTFL in 2014. What will change in 12 months ? apparently the following NTFL clubs voted against it Wynyard Smithton Latrobe and Penguin Those NTFL clubs don't want anything to do with SWL, and I cant see these clubs changing there minds in 12 months regional clubs don't trust AFL Tas in its current form Simples!!!!.
SWL all but Dead I would think if not now in the next 12 months.

Magpies demand answers on NTFL future
By CAMERON WHITELEY
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1725112/magpies-demand-answers-on-ntfl-future/?cs=88
 
GreyBudgie said:
Yes Madmug throw the $$$ down the drain for another 12 months, so next year we will Have Devonport going around again a team that don't want to be in the league and until Wednesday thought they would be in the NTFL in 2014. What will change in 12 months ? apparently the following NTFL clubs voted against it Wynyard Smithton Latrobe and Penguin Those NTFL clubs don't want anything to do with SWL, and I cant see these clubs changing there minds in 12 months regional clubs don't trust AFL Tas in its current form Simples!!!!.
SWL all but Dead I would think if not now in the next 12 months.

Magpies demand answers on NTFL future
By CAMERON WHITELEY
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1725112/magpies-demand-answers-on-ntfl-future/?cs=88
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All this crap with the TSL can be sheeted home to just one thing. Blind, pigheaded arrogance at Argyle street. Their was never any need for AFLTas to be so rude to the people of Tasmania. The people who love & support the game.
Sure, we want to provide the best opportunity for any young player to improve. That improvement should be both as a footballer & as a growing, responsible adult. (a big ask I know:p) A footy club should be a place that offers opportunity for anyone to join, contribute & to gain some level of physical &/or social improvement.
It shouldn't be just about football.
Forcing people to leave because AFLTas say they are too old at 22, who came up with that crap???
The clubs are all struggling to survive. Most of them dont have enough 'mature' players, lack volunteers & are struggling to pay the bills. All due to the AFLTas ad hoc, disjointed & confused 'plans'. Except of course some special clubs who have the AFL silver spoon shoved in their Gob.
AFL is rotten in this state.
 
madmug said:
All this crap with the TSL can be sheeted home to just one thing. Blind, pigheaded arrogance at Argyle street. Their was never any need for AFLTas to be so rude to the people of Tasmania. The people who love & support the game.
Sure, we want to provide the best opportunity for any young player to improve. That improvement should be both as a footballer & as a growing, responsible adult. (a big ask I know:p) A footy club should be a place that offers opportunity for anyone to join, contribute & to gain some level of physical &/or social improvement.
It shouldn't be just about football.
Forcing people to leave because AFLTas say they are too old at 22, who came up with that crap???
The clubs are all struggling to survive. Most of them dont have enough 'mature' players, lack volunteers & are struggling to pay the bills. All due to the AFLTas ad hoc, disjointed & confused 'plans'. Except of course some special clubs who have the AFL silver spoon shoved in their Gob.
AFL is rotten in this state.
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Agree AFL Tasmania have by making this a development league and in as you have said Madmug.
A) “Forced people to leave because AFL Tas say they are too old at 22”
and
B) Removing the Reserves

This has a had an impact on the Social Fabric of the clubs has removed the soul of the Club, how many people have become volunteers of clubs because they were or their sons were part of a Club and there playing career might have been a s a Reserve Player. As well as removing a stream of revenue from the above (players, there family and friends). I can understand AFL Tasmania have their own agenda but they have not as you have written tried to bring onside the General Football Public as you put it “The people who love & support the game”
 
GreyBudgie said:
Agree AFL Tasmania have by making this a development league and in as you have said Madmug.
A) “Forced people to leave because AFL Tas say they are too old at 22”
and
B) Removing the Reserves

This has a had an impact on the Social Fabric of the clubs has removed the soul of the Club, how many people have become volunteers of clubs because they were or their sons were part of a Club and there playing career might have been a s a Reserve Players. As well as removing a stream of revenue from the above players family and friends. I can understand AFL Tasmania have their own agenda but they have not as you have written tried to bring onside the General Football Public as you put it “The people who love & support the game”
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Like a lot of people I would rather be thinking about the football than the antics of bureaucrats sitting in judgement.
I'm more upset by how they have done things, than angry about it all. Just unnecessary agro & arrogance. Thats no way to run a people industry.
I'm waiting to see how the 'new' NHFC Demons are organised. A lot of supporters & volunteers are waiting to see if they will bother with it.
 
Despite being headed by three well respected ex-Presidents of TSL Clubs, a group making a public effort to dismantle the State League is not focused on the real issue at hand.​
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A State League in Tasmania is a good thing for football in the State.​
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But despite the potential that a State League has to benefit football in our State, many State League clubs are struggling. This is despite the fact that TSL clubs receive at a minimum $50,000 in funding from AFL Tasmania a year. Regional clubs could only dream of getting a $50,000 shot in the arm each year.​
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So why are they struggling?​
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When the State League began, the task that AFL Tasmania quite rightly was undertaking, that of providing junior development and participation programs, was pushed out to TSL Clubs. The money AFL Tasmania spent on these programs was simply in part redistributed for clubs to administer the participation and development programs themselves.​
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While Clubs performing this role could find some benefit over the long term with players coming through to play with them; it is football participation overall that benefits more.​
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For Clubs, it adds a cost that they otherwise would not have had in other circumstances, meaning that the real value that clubs can get in improving their business is considerably diluted. While enhancing football participation could only be considered a positive outcome, AFL Tasmania is probably better suited to run these programs more effectively and consistently across areas than is currently occurring.​
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In addition to development and participation programs there is an expectation that TSL clubs are run in a more professional manner than regional clubs. This does not attack the integrity or effort of some very well run regional clubs, but simply presents the expectation that being in a higher league brings with it. Ultimately this means that Clubs employ a full time manager, or more, to run the activities that were done previously by volunteers.​
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In addition the managers are required to complete considerable additional requirements that come along with being in the State League; meaning the often single resource is run very thin. It costs the Clubs more money than they were given in their grant to run their administration and development programs. And some of these task are probably done no better - or even worse - because the tasks that volunteers once completed are done by one person, albeit a full time employee, not many. Some clubs do retain volunteers to do these tasks, but some clearly don't.​
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Clubs volunteers sometime have the flawed opinion that they no longer need to do some tasks because a full time employee is there. This opinion could be valid if clubs had the capacity to employ multiple employees focused on administration; however this is simply not the case. It would be a far greater benefit if many stock standard tasks continue to be completed by volunteers, and the paid employee has the opportunity to strengthen the club by doing additional duties such as further identifying commercial activities the club could participate in, chasing corporate sponsorships or developing community programs that had the opportunity to be monetised.​
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Volunteers continue to play a large role in every TSL club; however there still remains a tendency for administrators to be over burdened by tasks that have simply been abandoned by some board members and volunteers.​
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In the next period of the State League, AFL Tasmania has said it will give clubs more money; contingent on meeting various criteria. AFL Tasmania have correctly suggested they should not just hand over a bag of money to Clubs. However the criteria need to be focused in the appropriate areas.​
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At this stage, this money is contingent on areas outside of strengthening administrations.​
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This again adds further costs to clubs structures equal to or greater than the funding boost. So the pressure is going to intensify, not be relieved by this extra funding promise.​
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$100,000 in funding a year sounds good in theory, but looking at the pot of money in isolation to the tasks associated with it is dangerous.​
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What would be better value in consideration of improving the sustainability of Clubs is if that money could be contingent (at least in part) on Clubs strengthening their administration, supporting them change their revenue structure (away from beer sales, and through to more corporate and community support) or better individual marketing of clubs and club players. Junior participation and development programs are not a bad thing for clubs to be doing, however not at the expense of having a strong administration.​
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Looking backwards, AFLT had, and continues to have, access to club financials, and so should have been well aware of the road train coming for South Launceston, and should have been well aware of Devonport's troubles well in advance of their ultimate public announcement.​
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This raises the question as to why clubs administrations are not put under more scrutiny than simply being required to send AFL Tasmania their finances at the end of the year. And when clubs provide their finances, why does AFL Tasmania not provide the clubs commentary on what they have assessed?​
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The likely scenario is that these reports go no further than a quick glance by the League administrators, and very little analysis is done to understand where club money is coming from or going to. Even less effort is likely provided to support those clubs with early warning signs.​
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AFL Tasmania's rationale in not offering South Launceston a TSL licence beyond this year was that they were financial unsustainable. Why? AFL Tasmania hasn't identified that, only that they have a large tax bill.​
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Clearly club administrators have many questions to answer at South Launceston and shouldn’t be excused; there should be a clean out. However, what steps did AFL Tasmania put in place to support South Launceston's financial position long before it got to the point it did?​
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A State League is a good idea for Tasmania, despite the backlash against it. The problem surrounding football at the moment is not that a State League is unsustainable period, it is that the State League is currently unsustainable and there are seemingly no plans to address why. Clubs need support in building stronger administrations first; not stronger development programs first.​
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The NTFL, SFL and NTFA all appoint one director of AFL Tasmania each. The three ex-presidents should all be demanding a change of leadership at AFL Tasmania via these leagues if they believe that football could be run better in this State, not calling for an abolition of the State League.​
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Don’t correlate the suggested poor outcomes being spoken about with that of simply running a State League. Understand the really reasons behind the problems that might be occurring. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.​
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I suppose it is up for discussion as to whether AFL Tasmania are the baby or the bath water. ​
 
Map This said:
Despite being headed by three well respected ex-Presidents of TSL Clubs, a group making a public effort to dismantle the State League is not focused on the real issue at hand.


A State League in Tasmania is a good thing for football in the State.



Understand the really reasons behind the problems that might be occurring. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.



I suppose it is up for discussion as to whether AFL Tasmania are the baby or the bath water.
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most deleted to save space:)

I agree with most of what you say. A very well written post for a newbie!!!
I certainly believe a state league is, or at least should be, a good thing for footy in Tassie. Its the constant poor decisions & arrogant approach that have put a lot of the public offside with the TSL. That affects the bottom line of all clubs. You must be part of a club given your analysis. Thats fine.
Looking over the fence & knowing a few people in footy its clear to me that apart from the the AFLTas attitude causing severe 'brand' damage, is that they have cost shifted so much crap onto the clubs. Then they pay some clubs more than others.
People have been making comment in the papers about South Launy. They seem to be in a financial mess. But they have apparently had a heap of funding of administration & players from AFLTas. The question is why are they so badly off after all that? How does that happen with AFLTas men running about the place?
So yes a state league should be a good thing for footy in Tassie IMO.
It seams clear that the biggest roadblock to that is AFLTas itself. They cant just blame the clubs when it is they that have been throwing the baby, the bathwater & it seams the bath tub as well, out the window.
If you keep pissing the public & the volunteers off, you have NOTHING LEFT!
How thick are they?
 
madmug said:
most deleted to save space:)

I agree with most of what you say. A very well written post for a newbie!!!
I certainly believe a state league is, or at least should be, a good thing for footy in Tassie. Its the constant poor decisions & arrogant approach that have put a lot of the public offside with the TSL. That affects the bottom line of all clubs. You must be part of a club given your analysis. Thats fine.
Looking over the fence & knowing a few people in footy its clear to me that apart from the the AFLTas attitude causing severe 'brand' damage, is that they have cost shifted so much crap onto the clubs. Then they pay some clubs more than others.
People have been making comment in the papers about South Launy. They seem to be in a financial mess. But they have apparently had a heap of funding of administration & players from AFLTas. The question is why are they so badly off after all that? How does that happen with AFLTas men running about the place?
So yes a state league should be a good thing for footy in Tassie IMO.
It seams clear that the biggest roadblock to that is AFLTas itself. They cant just blame the clubs when it is they that have been throwing the baby, the bathwater & it seams the bath tub as well, out the window.
If you keep pissing the public & the volunteers off, you have NOTHING LEFT!
How thick are they?
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I think just one example of what a lot of people say about AFL Tasmania management style can been seen from the following statement from Shane Yates. In this article that was posted last night in The Advocate by Cameron Whitley.
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1725112/magpies-demand-answers-on-ntfl-future/?cs=88
Magpie’s president Shane Yates said the Magpies had no idea prior to a meeting with AFL Tasmania representatives on Wednesday that the club would be told they would remain in the TSL in 2014.
``It was a shock for sure,'' Yates said yesterday
Surely AFL Tasmania could off/ should have been kept Shane Yates and the Devonport Football Club more in the loop, we will now have a Club that will be forced to play State Wide Football next year and placing even greater debt on it, which is not there want, and were given every indication that they would not be in the SWL by Powerbrokers of AFL Tasmania.

Map This great first post welcome, While I don’t agree with you a 100% on some points your post, was well written. In a perfect world and if financial feasible I would like to see a Elite SWL of no more than eight clubs, this would give an elite pathway for development players. But there would need to be a commission style governance of this competition with increased funding to the clubs and regional leagues underpinning this, unfortunately I think this won’t happen under the current administration who appear to flip flop from one day to the next with the regional leagues, some SWL Clubs and the General Public firmly offside. IMO there needs to be a New Broom brought in at the top to regain faith in the whole sorry mess that Aussie Rules has become in this state at the top level league.
 

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Get the feeling the State’s newspaper are now following the majority of the footy public and are putting AFL Tasmania under the Pump the Advocate piece shows support to be fair.
The Examiner report that only Glenorchy and North Launceston get the standard $50 000, (Which most people knew about AFL Tas Favouritism) so much for level playing field.
Awaiting a Clarence high profile player to do another “AFL Pro Spin Piece Soon” Hope they don’t offend Fish & Chips workers this time.
The Examiner
TSL players 'deserve better'
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1727101/tsl-players-deserve-better/?cs=96
The Mercury
The Knockout Blow
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2013/08/24/386282_sport-news.html
The Advocate
Fox Attack
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1727224/fox-attack/?cs=88
 
GreyBudgie said:
Get the feeling the State’s newspaper are now following the majority of the footy public and are putting AFL Tasmania under the Pump the Advocate piece shows support to be fair.
The Examiner report that only Glenorchy and North Launceston get the standard $50 000, (Which most people knew about AFL Tas Favouritism) so much for level playing field.
Awaiting a Clarence high profile player to do another “AFL Pro Spin Piece Soon” Hope they don’t offend Fish & Chips workers this time.
The Examiner
TSL players 'deserve better'
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1727101/tsl-players-deserve-better/?cs=96
The Mercury
The Knockout Blow
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2013/08/24/386282_sport-news.html
The Advocate
Fox Attack
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1727224/fox-attack/?cs=88
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An excellent post 'Budge'.
I say again I too support a state league. I just dont see the rabbits at argyle st have the ability to make it work. They have been at the centre of every disaster we've seen since they were part of pulling the last SWL apart to start in the VFL. Its been one big mess since.
Even now they tell the clubs to work profitably. They then cut the legs out from under them.
They fund their 'mates'. They force hundreds of good club people out of the competition,They cost shift, they insult the public & volunteers. What sort of management is that?
Are they trying to destroy clubs & the community support of the game itself?
It shouldn't be this hard, should it?

Definition of insanity, doing the same thing over & over, & expecting a different result!!!
 
It was a bitter sweet day at the TCA yesterday, but couldn't have been prouder of the boys. In particular Andrew Lemm was absolutely inspirational in his farewell game.

Apologies: probably the wrong thread, but I was very proud of everyone on the day. The crowd was around 1500 too, a great turnup.
 
I have tried to get the below into the local paper but haven't had much success. The 3 gentlemen that have come out and backed the SWL are 3 that certainly wouldn't bite the hand off that feeds them. Footy is a game of opinion after all so Windy don't take this as a personal attack on yourself. It is indeed the cold hard facts


Maybe when criticising those with legitimate concerns about the state of Tasmanian football, Darren Winter when defending AFL Tasmania and the State League should declare whether he receives personal gain either directly or indirectly from AFL Tasmania to coach Lauderdale, and also whether he receives personal gain directly or indirectly from the Lauderdale Football Club for products and/or services outside of his coaching duties.
At least then his one sided criticisms could be viewed by the public through the prism of personal gain that exists for him.
Those he criticises have no pecuniary interest in their cause. They are just totally dissatisfied with the chaotic performance of a State League administration that stumbles from one disaster to the next.

topgossip said:
I'm sure there's plenty of opportunities for Thurley in the Fish and Chips game. His comments would suggest that only players in a statewide comp could possiby be drafted. I suggest he does some history reading.
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If I was Darren Winter, I would certainly take this as a personal attack.

I know not of the arrangements between AFL Tasmania and Lauderdale, nor the arrangements between Lauderdale and Winter's business; however they are both commercial arrangements that, I have no doubt about, have a been dealt with by the Board of Lauderdale Football Club.

Football Club's live off businesses doing deals that mutually benefit both parties; it doesn't usually give cause for concern or compromise. Darren Winter has been a critic of many facets of AFL Tasmania; in fact he was probably the main driver in having the reserves structure return. Given the fact that AFL Tasmania was very proud of their colts structure, I am sure if Winter was their puppet the strings would have been pulled well and truly.

Winter is certainly not the most loved figure within Tasmanian football and I don't have a great lot of time for him. But he doesn't deserve someone to start throwing mud around simply because he may or may not have an arrangement in place between his business and the football club.

If you were to start to sift through other football club's commercial arrangements from within this state, and around Australia and I suspect you will find many employees, members, presidents, other board members with commercial arrangements with their club. Football clubs hold them selves above water through these kind of relationships. There is nothing sinister, or dubious about them.

Play the ball; what is your gripe with the State League? That is the issue you should be firing back at Winter about, not mud slinging. I am sure you have a genuine concern that could be brought to the debate without personal attacks.


North Wester said:
I have tried to get the below into the local paper but haven't had much success. The 3 gentlemen that have come out and backed the SWL are 3 that certainly wouldn't bite the hand off that feeds them. Footy is a game of opinion after all so Windy don't take this as a personal attack on yourself. It is indeed the cold hard facts


Maybe when criticising those with legitimate concerns about the state of Tasmanian football, Darren Winter when defending AFL Tasmania and the State League should declare whether he receives personal gain either directly or indirectly from AFL Tasmania to coach Lauderdale, and also whether he receives personal gain directly or indirectly from the Lauderdale Football Club for products and/or services outside of his coaching duties.
At least then his one sided criticisms could be viewed by the public through the prism of personal gain that exists for him.
Those he criticises have no pecuniary interest in their cause. They are just totally dissatisfied with the chaotic performance of a State League administration that stumbles from one disaster to the next.
Click to expand...
 
Map This said:
If I was Darren Winter, I would certainly take this as a personal attack.

I know not of the arrangements between AFL Tasmania and Lauderdale, nor the arrangements between Lauderdale and Winter's business; however they are both commercial arrangements that, I have no doubt about, have a been dealt with by the Board of Lauderdale Football Club.


I suppose it would be fair if those making comment declared any financial interests with clubs or AFLTas. I am a club member, actually a number of clubs! But I dont get paid by any club. I reckon that would apply to most people posting on BF. But it doesnt really matter as you dont know if people
would tell the truth anyway.

I'm more interested in footy being run with the best interests of the game, its players, supporters, volunteers & the community in which they play.

The TSL seems to be run along the lines of a private venture. But is not a private venture. If AFLTas want to change the fabric of football in this state they should say why & what the structure & clubs are supposed to look like & how they will operate. So far they haven't bothered. They have just dumped a lot of confusing & contradictory changes on OUR football. They make all sorts of announcements, & then try to sort the mess out later!
AFLTas seem to copy the AFL in everything except the management structure. The AFL have a commission but at least the clubs get a say on that commission. The commission then run the competition.
AFLTas say the TSL is their competition. The clubs get no real say in anything. The AFLTas board dont get voted in by the TSL clubs. So AFLTas operate without any care of what damage they do to the clubs.

All we want is the truth. What are they doing & why? what is footy supposed to operate like under their changes. Maybe then the footy public can buy in. Right now I see a lot of arrogance, pain & damage. All unnecessary IMO.
What is being hidden & why?
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I can assure you that the deal between Darren Winter and the Lauderdale Football Club is a win for both parties, absolute disgrace too suggest otherwise.
 
Halftimehero said:
I can assure you that the deal between Darren Winter and the Lauderdale Football Club is a win for both parties, absolute disgrace too suggest otherwise.
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That is a given, otherwise the agreement wouldn't be in place, but I believe what was being asked is it also beneficial for the greater TSL and Tassie footy in general and whether he is recieving any assistance from Argyle St. That is something I cannot answer though as I don't have all the info.
 
TassieEagle said:
That is a given, otherwise the agreement wouldn't be in place, but I believe what was being asked is it also beneficial for the greater TSL and Tassie footy in general and whether he is recieving any assistance from Argyle St. That is something I cannot answer though as I don't have all the info.
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I believe that the Lauderdale Football Club does receive money from AFL TAS to pay for a general manager which is Darren Winter but I am not sure what the issue is regarding that?
 
I reckon you may also find that ex presidents may have a personal axe to grind with staff at AFL TAS, that too can be seen as a conflict of interest. Can someone please let me know how a regional structure setup would be any better than what is happening now? The standard of Football certainly wouldn't be better, crowds are no different to what was attending the SFL Premier division 5 years ago, Hobart would still be cellar dwellers, North Hobart would still be a mediocre Football club, Glenorchy would fluctuate from year to year depending on the politics and in fighting in there club, Clarence would still dominate and Lauderdale would continue to show the Football public that instead of sitting on your asses and dreaming about what happened 40 years ago you can actually grow a Club with the right vision and pathway structure.
 
Heard on the weekend that former Southern Cats president dennis Fuller will be the president of the new Kingborough team.
 
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