Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?

[TylerDurden]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Replacing Cameron is manageable? He's a freak of a player good luck getting somebody in even half as good. He's going to cop all the attention the next couple of years until Neale develops even more and that will take a bit out of him. Not getting any younger himself. If your matching the key forwards against eachother Cameron is worth 2 of our forwards combined and that I'm happily willing to concede. He's as important as Lewis is to our structure but obviously he's 1 of the best in the game in general so he's on a level on his own. You will be competitive whilst he is still close to the peak of his powers as he is simply a match winner plain and simple.

Nobody's saying replacing Cameron is easy. But you could've written exactly the same paragraph for Ablett, Enright, Taylor, Selwood and Hawkins in recent years. And a bunch of other players a level below those superstars.

I think you're massively overstating how important he was this year too. His best is unreal but he was very inconsistent and tended to dominate poor teams.

 

[Mr Meow]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

That sucks. Back issues for key forwards can be a nightmare. Hopefully it's not a bad one like Hawkins in 2013 - he could barely move and I don't think the issue was managed well at all.

Sicily might start the season forward now? How is Mitch Lewis tracking?

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Actually we need Cameron to step up. He was poor against the big teams and filled his boots against the poor ones. Performing in the big moments is key.

Whether he can do that as he did in 2022 remains to be seen.

He dominated us in the GMHBA game later in the year, it helped you guys smacked us in the midfield and had field ascendancy all game. That was your 2nd best performance all year IMO behind the QF. Be interesting to see how Mitchell can counteract what Scott did against us and give a different look as he's probably the only coach who had the blueprint to beat us playing the way we did back half of the year . Don't count Hinkley because we really should have beaten them twice this year.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

That sucks. Back issues for key forwards can be a nightmare. Hopefully it's not a bad one like Hawkins in 2013 - he could barely move and I don't think the issue was managed well at all.

Sicily might start the season forward now? How is Mitch Lewis tracking?

We have a replacement but he's not ready yet (Skaife) and still unproven (Ramsden). Sicily or Weddle will most likely start the first month forward depending on the severity of his injury. 3 months would be best case scenario IMO. Getting Battle and Barrass even more important now because it won't impact the backline a great deal. Still plenty of marking power back there. Could even release Battle forward as we still have Frost as coverage.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

We do there just not proven as of yet but this should be the year Ramsden pushes his case for regular senior footy. If Skaife works on his tank he's a chance to play as well.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

Sounds like it's stress related - growing body, workload pressures etc
Hopefully they can address it for the longer term as back issues can impact a career if not managed right

 

[Gavin Excell]

That sucks. Back issues for key forwards can be a nightmare. Hopefully it's not a bad one like Hawkins in 2013 - he could barely move and I don't think the issue was managed well at all.

Sicily might start the season forward now? How is Mitch Lewis tracking?

While he got through it and ended up with a long and successful career, there was a time there 2013-15 thought he would be close to giving it away. Not sure Geelong managed it that well early on

 

[threesixpio]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

Gunner and Weddle forward I say.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

We'll be ok mate we have been working flexibility into our list. This will only make us stronger in the long run not hurt us

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Losing Dear is gonna hurt. We don't have a replacement.

We have our captain, mate.

 

[Vindicater]

We have our captain, mate.

I do wonder how Sicily will go as a forward full time.

He started there right and did pretty well from memory?

Swinging him forward half way through a game is fairly different to having him start there as it has the element of surprise. Using Essendon as an example Hurley was awesome at times when swung forward late but he struggled when played as a permanent forward.

Sicily also grounds your whole defensive structure.

Could Battle be the first one tapped to go forward to cover Dear?

 

[Leeda]

Travelling along the same road ....singing the same tune...wearing the same clobber...me being churlish...
Clogs are clippy footwear...yay

 

[Leeda]

We have our captain, mate.

Lads are crowing...can't the new year come any earlier!!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Looking fit. On the track still only straight line running followed by goal kicking practise. Yeah fingers crossed he gets a good run at it when he makes it back.

View attachment 2187286

Jeez he looks a unit. I still get a chuckle out of retiring/trading Mitchell and Lewis to then draft Mitch Lewis

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The “hardest” draw debate is extremely subjective so we can go around in circles debating this or just agree to disagree. My view is Hawthorn will get found out this year after many players over performed last year with a relatively unknown game plan and next year they will slide back. Doesn’t mean that 2025, 2026 etc will follow the same trend but it’s no an unreasonable opinion and just because you don’t agree with it, doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility.

Let’s bump this end of the season. Hawthorn will miss the 8 (and before you mention Essendon, we will comfortably miss as well).

Hardest draw is now a lot harder to define too with most teams taking 2 each of top, middle, and bottom 6. Gather round evened things up a bit

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Replacing Cameron is manageable? He's a freak of a player good luck getting somebody in even half as good. He's going to cop all the attention the next couple of years until Neale develops even more and that will take a bit out of him. Not getting any younger himself. If your matching the key forwards against eachother Cameron is worth 2 of our forwards combined and that I'm happily willing to concede. He's as important as Lewis is to our structure but obviously he's 1 of the best in the game in general so he's on a level on his own. You will be competitive whilst he is still close to the peak of his powers as he is simply a match winner plain and simple.

You don't replace a player like Cameron, you learn to play around what you've lost. That is manageable if you get new pieces in to reinvent yourself, and not if you don't.

But also, Neale not getting any younger? He's 22. He needs to get older first

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That sucks. Back issues for key forwards can be a nightmare. Hopefully it's not a bad one like Hawkins in 2013 - he could barely move and I don't think the issue was managed well at all.

Sicily might start the season forward now? How is Mitch Lewis tracking?

Yeah, with so many defenders on their list now they might end up giving frosts career a stay of execution until dear returns and sicily goes back again

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I do wonder how Sicily will go as a forward full time.

He started there right and did pretty well from memory?

Swinging him forward half way through a game is fairly different to having him start there as it has the element of surprise. Using Essendon as an example Hurley was awesome at times when swung forward late but he struggled when played as a permanent forward.

Sicily also grounds your whole defensive structure.

Could Battle be the first one tapped to go forward to cover Dear?

Sicily won’t necessarily need to be full time, but remember he won games off his own boot with 1 arm this year.

Battle or Weddle could go forward, or Ramsden could be brought in. Hardwick too, who plays more as a lead up.
Chol, Gunston and whoever the third banana is don’t even need to mark the ball when you’ve got smalls as dangerous as Breust, Wiz, Ginni, Moore and McDonald. Compete, bring it or ground, go to work.

Sicily being as good as he is with body positioning and how hard he will be to match up on is just a bonus.

 

[Gavin Excell]

You don't replace a player like Cameron, you learn to play around what you've lost. That is manageable if you get new pieces in to reinvent yourself, and not if you don't.

But also, Neale not getting any younger? He's 22. He needs to get older first

Might be a question more for the unaligned but is M Lewis better than Neale?

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Might be a question more for the unaligned but is M Lewis better than Neale?

In terms of runs on the board and proven performance, absolutely.

You'd expect that with a player of Neale's experience level though.

 

[matey]

You don't replace a player like Cameron, you learn to play around what you've lost. That is manageable if you get new pieces in to reinvent yourself, and not if you don't.

But also, Neale not getting any younger? He's 22. He needs to get older first

He does look promising and has the size to pinch hit in the ruck ….. looks like Cats have plucked a good one here.

 

[craffles]

Hardest draw is now a lot harder to define too with most teams taking 2 each of top, middle, and bottom 6. Gather round evened things up a bit

Very much so, there’s way too many subjective assumptions built into modelling that is run by places like champion data but people just take it as fact.

What is a fact is that Hawthorn only had 5 wins against eventual top 8 sides during the home and away. Their results flattered them and I’m happy to die on that hill and my prediction that they will miss the 8. I look forward to someone bumping this irrrespective of whether I am right or wrong.