- Mar 25, 2019
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Not sure Titch is any quicker than Hewett.
Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4
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Banter threads are not to be taken too seriously. Have fun. Let others have fun.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Can we get back to how exactly Titch's 2023 is "far better" than anything Hewett has produced? Looking at the statistics Hewett was far better
Or is this another Cox has had a better career than Walsh backtracks?
Or is this another Cox has had a better career than Walsh backtracks?
Robertio
Spotswood Guinness Bar manager
He's not.
Robertio
Spotswood Guinness Bar manager
That'll be right.
Good thing there's more to assessing performance than looking at 'averages' on a stats sheet.
Getting high 20's and influencing finals is far superior to getting 29 and 1 against the Gold Coast during the home and away rounds.
Mitchell did it averaging about 70% game time over 26 games, Hewett high 70's game time over 15 games.
Mitchell 12 Brownlow votes in 2023; Hewett 4 in 2022.
I agree.
Hewett is a B grader.
Carlton's problem is a lack of B graders, and they got rid of Kennedy and Martin, two B graders they had in 2024.
They have the most A graders of any teams in 2025, but poor B grade support.
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He probably isn't but he was crucial in the centre bounces as a clearance player.
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Martin played 3 games in 2024 so not sure how he was a B grade in 2024
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Titch also did a great blanket job on Neale in the GF
Great recruit
moved the needleNot expecting much from him in 2025 though, he's just about cooked
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Yep. Anything we get out of him in 2025 is a bonus - he's paid his way with the 2023 flag.Titch also did a great blanket job on Neale in the GF
Great recruitmoved the needle
Not expecting much from him in 2025 though, he's just about cooked
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It is a projection of list quality for the upcoming season. Carlton have 5 A-graders for 2025, the equal most of any club (Melbourne and Brisbane the other teams with 5 A graders.)
Cripps is rated as A+ for 2025, he might do his knee and only play 3 games. Is still an A+ level player though.
Pendles and Saad were judged as A graders back in 2023, but are both downgraded to a B for 2025.
Martin was a solid player, B grader, who never got on the park. Kennedy was a solid player, B grader, who played each week. Neither are on Carlton's list for 2025.
Carlton are hoping a couple of C-D grade kids can fill gaps and blossom into B graders.
Pies have gone the other way and added some A and B graders to the list.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Using Brownlow votes as a measuring stick
I think Hewett had a bit more competition than Titch in his midfield given we had the winner of the Brownlow plus two 10+ vote getters ahead of him compared to Titch who had Nicky and then nobody near it.
Plus, Hewett played almost half the games as Titch did in the respective seasons due to injury
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Yet Hewett averaged more clearances than Titch in the years being compared? By quite a margin too.
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You say Carlton's issue is the "lack of B-graders" but this is just one website coming up with their own rankings using I assume some sort of statistical metric. In reality it's meaningless. A team doesn't need "more B-graders" to succeed it just needs players understanding their role and delivering. Fogarty for instance does that every week and is listed as a C+ on that website. Fantasia is listed as a B and him doing a role has less of an impact on team performance than Fogarty doing his imo.
It also has some highly questionable gradings for some players on top of the above. Allan from the Pies for instance who has played 2 games is a C+ and you have players like Boyd/Cowan who have shown far more in far more game time listed at a C. I would obviously need more info on what metric they are using but doesn't seem great.
Home and Away games:Using Brownlow votes as a measuring stick
I think Hewett had a bit more competition than Titch in his midfield given we had the winner of the Brownlow plus two 10+ vote getters ahead of him compared to Titch who had Nicky and then nobody near it.
Plus, Hewett played almost half the games as Titch did in the respective seasons due to injury
15 games v. 23 games = 'almost half'.
I also mentioned:
1. Comparative game time
2. Mitchell's performances in finals
But you focussed on Brownlow votes (where Mitchell outpolled Hewett by a ratio of 3:1).
FMD.
Only Carlton supporters would try to debate a 15 game season (with no finals) is comparable to a 26 game season (with high level performances in finals).
Fantasia being listed as a B Grader tells me everything I need to know about that ratings system....
I mean, if Jagga is a D Grader because he hasn't played any games, whilst Fantasia is a B Grader...
I'll taken the unproven Jagga every day of the week, and twice on game day...
- Oct 4, 2018
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Yep I agree. As I said above they also have Allan who has played two games as C+ and Boyd/Cowan who have shown far more in far more game time as a C.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Fudger, you can't use Brownlow votes to measure every players output lmao. Everyone knows it's a star midfielders award. Titch and Hewett are essentially role players in their respective midfields so you're never going to be able to accurately judge either on how many votes they get in a year because it's reliant on how the star players ahead of them perform more than it is themselves.
But going back to the question, how is Titch's 2023 "far better" than anything Hewett has produced with his 2022 there for you to see?
Perhaps you could argue it's slightly better, or maybe even equal output... You are yet to explain how it's in any way "far better"??
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This thread is like watching two weedy 8th graders fighting over who gets to go out with the lead nerd girl
- Mar 25, 2019
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In reality majority of rankings are subjective and almost meaningless.
The point being it isn't a Fadge view, or a Carlton fan just complaining about a B or C ranking. It is an unbiased source for player rankings.
Carlton have the top end talent. More A graders than the Pies, and it has been consistent since 2022. Blues have the star A graders = Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Curnow, McKay.
And with them winning brownlows, Coleman's, AA gigs they haven't been able to win more than 13 games.
Pies won a flag as we have a much broader spread of quality contributors aka B-graders.
Robertio
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How many games did Mitchell and Hewett play in 2024, lets talk about now and not the past if you want to talk about current ratings.
Robertio
Spotswood Guinness Bar manager
You only just won the flag and only from the effort of your stars like Pendlebury, Crisp, Sidebottom, De Goey and a Norm Smith to a player who has only repeated the effort once or twice
8th graders.....this is more like 3 year old kinder.
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