What the hell is happening on our roads?

[evolved2]

Not bait taking but nah. General common sense says people drove alot less for 2-3 years and are out of practise, plus we didnt make more capacity but we got more people.

Australia's population increased by 0.5% in 2020 (citation), 0.2% in 2021 (citation) and 1.1% in 2022 (citation). It's reasonable to argue that population changes made no difference.

How much practice does the average experienced driver need to get back up to speed after a long break? Remember 'we' were driving to supermarkets and petrol stations at a bare minimum during lockdown.

Traffic and general road behaviour is anecdotally worse than pre covid, youd be the first person ive seen say otherwise.

I'd argue that driving skills aren't something you lose easily. To think that driving skills are measurably worse after >12 months out of lockdown is something I find hard to accept without objective evidence. I haven't driven a manual vehicle for 5 years, but I reckon I'd be fluid with gear changes and clutch usage within a couple days if it was required.

 

[evolved2]

100%.

Remember starting out driving it was so rare to see someone run a red light. See it almost daily- on way to work this morning, I just got thru on the amber- the car several car lengths behind me ran it.

You probably broke the law if you just got through on the amber light.

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-rules/a-to-z-of-road-rules/traffic-controls-at-intersections

 

[phantom13]

Australia's population increased by 0.5% in 2020 (citation), 0.2% in 2021 (citation) and 1.1% in 2022 (citation). It's reasonable to argue that population changes made no difference.

How much practice does the average experienced driver need to get back up to speed after a long break? Remember 'we' were driving to supermarkets and petrol stations at a bare minimum during lockdown.

I'd argue that driving skills aren't something you lose easily. To think that driving skills are measurably worse after >12 months out of lockdown is something I find hard to accept without objective evidence. I haven't driven a manual vehicle for 5 years, but I reckon I'd be fluid with gear changes and clutch usage within a couple days if it was required.

Yeh, it’s anecdotal not empirical but

• no one was doing the peak hour commutes anymore. Driving 2 minutes in a quiet road to the shops is not the same as an hour on a busy freeway. The “practice” is very very different.
• your evidence on increase in numbers supports my comments, albeit it’s a small increase
• really depends what you mean on the whole “it’s like riding a bike. If everyone’s skills and behaviour (and I’d stress it’s behaviour that’s different) changed then everyone is going to get used to new normal. I’m arguing it’s a small amount of behaviour/skill and population that has led to new state in our roads.

If everyone is 2% more selfish, 2% less attentive and the population is 2% bigger you don’t think that would have a noticeable effect on the quality of driving on the roads?

 

[JyeDye]

The driving was shit before COVID and it's shit now, I don't really notice a difference.

 

[revo333]

The driving was s**t before COVID and it's s**t now, I don't really notice a difference.

Yeah it's not much to do with skill, I've never been in an accident and I'm not a great driver but when I've been close to an accident it's been cause I wasn't paying attention.

 

[peternorth]

Girl at our gym was late this morning cause she had an accident on the way, tradie ran into her, they make the roads dangerous early in the morn

On a car show on sen they were kinda joking about tradies giving people the shits on the roads. They’re sleep deprived, drinking red bulls and always in a rush to get to the pub for vbs

 

[the_interloper]

What about people in the left lane who think they can swerve into the right to avoid a cyclist, regardless of whether there’s a car in the right lane or not?

 

[JyeDye]

What about people in the left lane who think they can swerve into the right to avoid a cyclist, regardless of whether there’s a car in the right lane or not?

First rule in Australian driving is always blame the cyclist.

 

[evolved2]

Yeh, it’s anecdotal not empirical but

• no one was doing the peak hour commutes anymore. Driving 2 minutes in a quiet road to the shops is not the same as an hour on a busy freeway. The “practice” is very very different.
• your evidence on increase in numbers supports my comments, albeit it’s a small increase
• really depends what you mean on the whole “it’s like riding a bike. If everyone’s skills and behaviour (and I’d stress it’s behaviour that’s different) changed then everyone is going to get used to new normal. I’m arguing it’s a small amount of behaviour/skill and population that has led to new state in our roads.

If everyone is 2% more selfish, 2% less attentive and the population is 2% bigger you don’t think that would have a noticeable effect on the quality of driving on the roads?

If you weigh the minor increase in population against the removal of cars from roads because of wfh arrangements after covid, I think things balance out.

Could it be that the 2 years you spent away from the daily arge and barge on our roads made you forget how bad the average driver truly is?

 

[phantom13]

If you weigh the minor increase in population against the removal of cars from roads because of wfh arrangements after covid, I think things balance out.

Could it be that the 2 years you spent away from the daily arge and barge on our roads made you forget how bad the average driver truly is?

I don’t drive very often so I’m more going off the handful of times I have and the overwhelming anecdotal evidence of mates that do.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Chat:GPT is awesome.

Rebutting someone who is using the Anecdotal Fallacy requires a thoughtful and respectful approach to help them understand the limitations of relying solely on anecdotal evidence. Here's how you might do it:

1. Acknowledge Their Experience: Start by acknowledging their personal experience and the story they shared. Show that you value their perspective and that you're interested in their point of view.
2. Emphasize the Importance of Multiple Data Points: Politely explain that while their anecdotal experience is valuable, it's important to consider a range of experiences and data points to form a more accurate and comprehensive understanding of the topic.
3. Highlight the Potential for Bias: Gently point out that anecdotes can be influenced by personal bias, limited scope, and random occurrences. Mention that relying solely on individual stories may not provide a complete or representative view of the situation.
4. Suggest Exploring Additional Evidence: Encourage them to look at broader patterns and trends by considering larger datasets, research studies, expert opinions, and statistical analyses. This can help them form a more informed and balanced perspective.
5. Offer Alternative Sources: If you have access to relevant studies, data, or expert opinions, you can share these resources with them. This can demonstrate your commitment to engaging in a well-informed discussion.
6. Maintain a Respectful Tone: Throughout the conversation, maintain a respectful and non-confrontational tone. Avoid sounding dismissive or critical of their personal experience, as this can lead to defensiveness.
7. Use Questions: Ask open-ended questions to encourage them to think critically about their reliance on anecdotal evidence. For instance, you could ask, "Do you think that your experience might be representative of the broader situation?" or "Have you considered other viewpoints or data?"
8. Share Your Perspective: If appropriate, share your own insights and experiences, while also acknowledging that your perspective is just one piece of the puzzle. This can help foster a constructive exchange of ideas.

 

[phantom13]

Chat:GPT is awesome.

Rebutting someone who is using the Anecdotal Fallacy requires a thoughtful and respectful approach to help them understand the limitations of relying solely on anecdotal evidence. Here's how you might do it:

1. Acknowledge Their Experience: Start by acknowledging their personal experience and the story they shared. Show that you value their perspective and that you're interested in their point of view.
2. Emphasize the Importance of Multiple Data Points: Politely explain that while their anecdotal experience is valuable, it's important to consider a range of experiences and data points to form a more accurate and comprehensive understanding of the topic.
3. Highlight the Potential for Bias: Gently point out that anecdotes can be influenced by personal bias, limited scope, and random occurrences. Mention that relying solely on individual stories may not provide a complete or representative view of the situation.
4. Suggest Exploring Additional Evidence: Encourage them to look at broader patterns and trends by considering larger datasets, research studies, expert opinions, and statistical analyses. This can help them form a more informed and balanced perspective.
5. Offer Alternative Sources: If you have access to relevant studies, data, or expert opinions, you can share these resources with them. This can demonstrate your commitment to engaging in a well-informed discussion.
6. Maintain a Respectful Tone: Throughout the conversation, maintain a respectful and non-confrontational tone. Avoid sounding dismissive or critical of their personal experience, as this can lead to defensiveness.
7. Use Questions: Ask open-ended questions to encourage them to think critically about their reliance on anecdotal evidence. For instance, you could ask, "Do you think that your experience might be representative of the broader situation?" or "Have you considered other viewpoints or data?"
8. Share Your Perspective: If appropriate, share your own insights and experiences, while also acknowledging that your perspective is just one piece of the puzzle. This can help foster a constructive exchange of ideas.

That’s all good but there aren’t really any hard metrics to prove or disprove either position. It’s just opinions and anecdotes and the few metrics that could be found have also got a lot of explanations so…

 

[rocker_oz33]

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