West Coast Eagles Priority Pick (2024)

[Dom sheed pocket]

I hope the AFL are watching closely - i suspect what's happened to WCE will be fairly common for other teams that bottom out moving forward. Richmond and Melbourne are on the cusp of it now...

IMO this is significantly the AFL's doing:

• Arbitrary and reactive meddling with rule changes (e.g. 666) impact list decisions that are difficult to undo in the short term.
• Northern Academies & F/S (personally love F/S) but the Northern Academies are out of hand now. If you're not blessed with academy talent or F/S how can you rebuild when your second picks are now in the 30s?
• Expansion of the competition - tasmania will further compromise upcoming drafts and dilute player pool quality. We already have too many players on lists that are not AFL quality. It's a shit time to rebuild right now.
• Soft cap limits that benefit clubs that struggle financially to the detriment of everyone else. Coaches are being paid less than they were in 2019 yet the AFL weathered COVID successfully - go figure. WCE are lucky to be an economic powerhouse - but how can you attract the best coaches, development & medical staff when you're A) In a remote part of the country, B) Are a shit club that coaches don't want to risk sinking their careers at and C) You can't differentiate yourself/make yourself more desirable through paying higher wages?
• Increased length of season affecting injury rates, especially for teams with older players (and disproportionately affecting those with heavy travel loads)

So should WCE get a PP? I bloody hate the idea of PPs but by the logic that NM got them, WCE should get them. The challenge will be what does the AFL do if my suspicions are correct and this becomes a norm.

I sort of agree that AFL has made rebuilds unnecessarily longer than required because of academies and talent spreading too thin, but West Coast (and North) absolutely butchered their lists in a way that is difficult to comprehend.

Go through West Coasts drafting history from 2014-18 and you'll be shocked to see how poor it is. Then they do a big mega trade for Kelly, which is the right decision, but just don't have anything underneath. We all saw the signs because in 2020 we were all talking about how weak our depth was on our list.

Rebuilds will always be hard, and long (Freo, Adelaide, Brisbane etc) but few are as bleak as West Coasts and I don't expect that to be the norm.

 

[Scotland]

Go through West Coasts drafting history from 2014-18 and you'll be shocked to see how poor it is. Then they do a big mega trade for Kelly, which is the right decision, but just don't have anything underneath. We all saw the signs because in 2020 we were all talking about how weak our depth was on our list.

Ugly, but in context. WC had pick 6 in 2013 then pick 3 in 2022. Every first round pick after Duggan in 2014 was in the teens or 20s. Should do better but used 3 top 20 picks in 7 drafts.

2014 Duggan (11)
2015 Cole (36)
2016 Rioli (52, ASADA ban then Port) Waterman (77)
2017 Allen (21), Ryan (26), Petruccelle (38)
2018 B Williams (35)
2019 Jameson (49)
2020 nil

Biggest misses were Venables and Brander who were back to back pick 13s in 2016/17. Brander had to retire due to concussion and Brander was a miss.

I'm not really worried about this era of players. Allen is out of form but he, Waterman and Ryan are quality AFL players. Cole and Duggan are what they are. I'm more concerned about the number of players to debut from 2020 onwards who are no longer on the list, 15 by my count. And trading pick 3 for magic beans last year.

Trading firsts in 2015 (21, Ben McKay) and 2019 (16, Cooper Stephens) and 2020 (18, Ryan Angwin) netted us Jack Redden who played 134 games (Cal Sinclair also traded for Lewis Jetta who played 75), and Tim Kelly who has played 100. We overpaid for Kelly because we are morons but you do those trades every day. Take Kelly out from 2020 and we're still as shit as we are but it's not like we gave up prime assets that turned into stars.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Ugly, but in context. WC had pick 6 in 2013 then pick 3 in 2022. Every first round pick after Duggan in 2014 was in the teens or 20s. Should do better but used 3 top 20 picks in 7 drafts.

2014 Duggan (11)
2015 Cole (36)
2016 Rioli (52, ASADA ban then Port) Waterman (77)
2017 Allen (21), Ryan (26), Petruccelle (38)
2018 B Williams (35)
2019 Jameson (49)
2020 nil

Biggest misses were Venables and Brander who were back to back pick 13s in 2016/17. Brander had to retire due to concussion and Brander was a miss.

I'm not really worried about this era of players. Allen is out of form but he, Waterman and Ryan are quality AFL players. Cole and Duggan are what they are. I'm more concerned about the number of players to debut from 2020 onwards who are no longer on the list, 15 by my count. And trading pick 3 for magic beans last year.

Trading firsts in 2015 (21, Ben McKay) and 2019 (16, Cooper Stephens) and 2020 (18, Ryan Angwin) netted us Jack Redden who played 134 games (Cal Sinclair also traded for Lewis Jetta who played 75), and Tim Kelly who has played 100. We overpaid for Kelly because we are morons but you do those trades every day. Take Kelly out from 2020 and we're still as shit as we are but it's not like we gave up prime assets that turned into stars.

I've always felt like many on this board exaggerate the importance of early first round picks, and blame our lack of access to the top of the draft.

We barely found AFL level players with our picks. Of the 7 drafts you looked at, we have found 4 players who have reached 100 games for us and not a single midfielder.. That's an atrocious hit rate, and is the reason the list caved in on itself.

I think our drafting has been much improved the last few years (lets wait and see), but the reason we are naming a midfield that would get beaten by WAFL teams and have won 10 out of 80 games is because of the choices we made in 2014-18.

 

[Scotland]

I've always felt like many on this board exaggerate the importance of early first round picks, and blame our lack of access to the top of the draft.

We barely found AFL level players with our picks. Of the 7 drafts you looked at, we have found 4 players who have reached 100 games for us and not a single midfielder.. That's an atrocious hit rate, and is the reason the list caved in on itself.

I think our drafting has been much improved the last few years (lets wait and see), but the reason we are naming a midfield that would get beaten by WAFL teams and have won 10 out of 80 games is because of the choices we made in 2014-18.

Who did Geelong draft in that period?

Tom Stewart defender, Grian Myers forward, Sam De Koning defender. A few good rookie picks. Whole lotta misses until Max Holmes at pick 20 in 2020.

They were comparable to WC 2014-2020 and have been 100 fold better since. Why didn't their list cave in? Their trading and free agency moves have been much better than ours and their older players kept performing.

Port on the other hand nailed 2018 picking up Rozee and Butters who they have built around. But they also traded for Aliir Alirr, Lukosious, Horne-Francis, Rioli, Sweet, Ratugolea etc. Players like Butters and SPP would run through walls for Ken Hinkley. Plenty of WC players didn't want to run full stop for Simmo.

West Coast's drafting was poor, but the current deep hole is the result of a number of things being poor. A team with 10-15 premiership players + Naitanui/Gaff/Sheppard + Tim Kelly shouldn't be meekly falling off a cliff the year after finishing 5th and losing a final by a point.

 

[Obeanie1]

Adelaide has other issues with talent attraction, and not producing as many afl standard players as WA.

Come on, you're just wrong here.

Rankin

Dawson

Two blue chip mids?

What blue chip players in their peaks are flocking back to WA?

And

 

[1990crow]

Rankin

Dawson

Two blue chip mids?

What blue chip players in their peaks are flocking back to WA?

And

Jackson, Bolton, Warner was available.
Kelly, Yeo and Hogan before them.

West Coast has dug themselves a hole, they need to build something without AFL assistance and then maybe players like Warner will come.

 

[Obeanie1]

I sort of agree that AFL has made rebuilds unnecessarily longer than required because of academies and talent spreading too thin, but West Coast (and North) absolutely butchered their lists in a way that is difficult to comprehend.

Go through West Coasts drafting history from 2014-18 and you'll be shocked to see how poor it is. Then they do a big mega trade for Kelly, which is the right decision, but just don't have anything underneath. We all saw the signs because in 2020 we were all talking about how weak our depth was on our list.

Rebuilds will always be hard, and long (Freo, Adelaide, Brisbane etc) but few are as bleak as West Coasts and I don't expect that to be the norm.

So the Eagles butchered the draft between 2014 and 2018.

What picks were those again?

2014 Duggan - solid pick at 11.

2015 Tom Cole solid at 36

2016 D Venables at 13 - lost to concussion

2017 Brander at 13 fail, Allen at 21 win, Liam Ryan 26 win,

2018 Premiership season traded out and missed Bobby Hill and say Tom Berry

Who would you have taken that would have turned the dial.

English in 2017 is pretty much it.

 

[Obeanie1]

Jackson, Bolton, Warner was available.
Kelly, Yeo and Hogan before them.

West Coast has dug themselves a hole, they need to build something without AFL assistance and then maybe players like Warner will come.

Jackson and Bolton nominated Freo. No interest in the Eagles at all. Just like Pickett will go to Freo.

Perth is a two team town with lines drawn.

Hogan with off field issues. Never an option for the Eagles and was a bust in WA due to off field issues. Not a great example of the Eagles digging their hole. Hogan failed in WA.

Kelly. Good player in a decent side. Not blue chip.

Yeo. You mention Yeo from 10 years ago? A premiership player with I jury issues late in his career. How surprising.

So you haven't proved anything with that list at all.

Compare it to players willing to move and play in SA or QLD or NSW never mind Vic.

The trade market is most active on the East Coast. More teams and more players to choose from. Most are not interested in a shorter career out West.

Those who are are rarely blue chip.

That's a fact.

 

[Tiger Snake]

I sort of agree that AFL has made rebuilds unnecessarily longer than required because of academies and talent spreading too thin, but West Coast (and North) absolutely butchered their lists in a way that is difficult to comprehend.

Go through West Coasts drafting history from 2014-18 and you'll be shocked to see how poor it is. Then they do a big mega trade for Kelly, which is the right decision, but just don't have anything underneath. We all saw the signs because in 2020 we were all talking about how weak our depth was on our list.

Rebuilds will always be hard, and long (Freo, Adelaide, Brisbane etc) but few are as bleak as West Coasts and I don't expect that to be the norm.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

PPs are precisely to compensate for idiotic decisions, amongst other things.

which is why they shouldn't exist.

Why should the rest of comp (especially other rebuilding clubs) be disadvantaged for WC's screw ups?

 

[Scotland]

which is why they shouldn't exist.

Why should the rest of comp (especially other rebuilding clubs) be disadvantaged for WC's screw ups?

Get rid of them then.

PPs sit in the same boat as red cards and eligibility for the Brownlow. No one talks about these issues during the off season then a month or two into the season every man and his dog has an opinion.

If it's accepted at Rd 1 that PPs are a thing then it should be accepted that teams that have won 10 games over 3-4 years have a case. This "WC got themselves into this mess" thing is such horse shit. The AFL chose to give Gold Coast 2019 #1, #20; 2020 Mid 1st Round + Pre Draft Selections, 2021 first pick in 2nd round. Anyone want to mount they argument they didn't dig their own hole? GWS played finals within 5 years. Meanwhile Gold Coast had to package Jack Bowes with a top 10 pick because they overpaid him and couldn't manage their salary cap.

Why should WC or anyone else be disadvantaged because the AFL wants to "grow the game" in the Northern states? If WC come last all I want is pick 1, 19, 37 etc.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

The same people complaining about priority picks are the same blokes complaining about how unbalanced the comp is when teams get to play North, WC and Richmond twice

that's because west coast are often un-competitive in the short term, but will be good again in the long term.

Adding an extra 18 year old to the list does nothing to improve their competitiveness in the short term, so it serves no purpose.

If you want west coast to be more competitive, give them additional cap space for 2-3 years to add some more decent senior players.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Get rid of them then.

PPs sit in the same boat as red cards and eligibility for the Brownlow. No one talks about these issues during the off season then a month or two into the season every man and his dog has an opinion.

If it's accepted at Rd 1 that PPs are a thing then it should be accepted that teams that have won 10 games over 3-4 years have a case. This "WC got themselves into this mess" thing is such horse shit. The AFL chose to give Gold Coast 2019 #1, #20; 2020 Mid 1st Round + Pre Draft Selections, 2021 first pick in 2nd round. Anyone want to mount they argument they didn't dig their own hole? GWS played finals within 5 years. Meanwhile Gold Coast had to package Jack Bowes with a top 10 pick because they overpaid him and couldn't manage their salary cap.

Why should WC or anyone else be disadvantaged because the AFL wants to "grow the game" in the Northern states? If WC come last all I want is pick 1, 19, 37 etc.

They shouldn't be a thing. All of your arguments affect other rebuilding clubs as well.

AFL wants to hand out PP's, then Adelaide should be first in line given how often they have been screwed by other clubs receiving concessions.

 

[Coasters7]

that's because west coast are often un-competitive in the short term, but will be good again in the long term.

Adding an extra 18 year old to the list does nothing to improve their competitiveness in the short term, so it serves no purpose.

If you want west coast to be more competitive, give them additional cap space for 2-3 years to add some more decent senior players.

Yeah whether it’s a pick or not I think the argument is for some sort of assistance package.

Doesnt necessarily have to be high picks but cap space, NGA changes, even picks that need to be traded for players, soft cap exceptions (which should already be in place for both WA teams to offset the location gap). Any of the above would be fine.

 

[1990crow]

They shouldn't be a thing. All of your arguments affect other rebuilding clubs as well.

AFL wants to hand out PP's, then Adelaide should be first in line given how often they have been screwed by other clubs receiving concessions.

West Coast made finals in 2020, and finished 9th in 2021.
Adelaide last made finals in 2017.

Someone has to be last, and any suggestion west coast deserve extra help is nonsense.

 

[Rich01]

They’d be more competitive if they kept some of their senior players.

Instead they offloaded Darling and Barass. Kelly and Allan will go at the end of the year too.

While I’m not against this strategy, putting their hand out for some draft assistance because of this is kinda rich.

 

[Off Tap]

They’d be more competitive if they kept some of their senior players.

Instead they offloaded Darling and Barass. Kelly and Allan will go at the end of the year too.

While I’m not against this strategy, putting their hand out for some draft assistance because of this is kinda rich.

Hang on a minute. Isn't one of the major complaints is that West Coast held onto and paid extended contracts to our better players in their prime?

 

[Rich01]

Hang on a minute. Isn't one of the major complaints is that West Coast held onto and paid extended contracts to our better players in their prime?

Where do you see me pushing for this?
My point is if you choose to go down a path of offloading senior players and play a really young and inexperienced team, expect to be down the bottom of the ladder. This comes as no surprise. And asking for handouts because they chose this path is kinda rich.

 

[swingdog]

They shouldn't be a thing. All of your arguments affect other rebuilding clubs as well.

AFL wants to hand out PP's, then Adelaide should be first in line given how often they have been screwed by other clubs receiving concessions.

Let's fact it, this is a truism of BigFooty.

Everyone hates PPs until their club is in line for one.

 

[bzparkes]

They shouldn't be a thing. All of your arguments affect other rebuilding clubs as well.

AFL wants to hand out PP's, then Adelaide should be first in line given how often they have been screwed by other clubs receiving concessions.

If PPs shouldn't be a thing, then NGA and father son shouldn't be a thing either.

How are clubs supposed to rebuild when finals teams are getting 3x the first rounders bottom table clubs are for a bunch of 2nd/3rd rounders?

This'll all come to a massive head soon.

 

[bzparkes]

They’d be more competitive if they kept some of their senior players.

Instead they offloaded Darling and Barass. Kelly and Allan will go at the end of the year too.

While I’m not against this strategy, putting their hand out for some draft assistance because of this is kinda rich.

Why didn't your lot hold onto Rioli and Bolton then?

Richmond would be way more competitive if they'd held onto them.

Pretty rich to judge another club when your own club couldn't wait to push 2 of their best players out the door.

 

[Rich01]

Why didn't your lot hold onto Rioli and Bolton then?

Richmond would be way more competitive if they'd held onto them.

Pretty rich to judge another club when your own club couldn't wait to push 2 of their best players out the door.

Read my post before you offload BZ.
I’m not criticising the approach at all.
But I’m not sure what the club and fans expect when they go down this path.

It’s time down the bottom getting beaten comprehensively. There shouldn’t be crisis talks. This is to be expected.

And my club (that you bring into the conversation) is the perfect example.
Expect beatings, but don’t cry out for help if you choose this path.

I want long term success, not short term mediocrity. Crying for help when you’ve chosen that path means there’s something else seriously wrong at the club.

 

[bzparkes]

Read my post before you offload BZ.
I’m not criticising the approach at all.
But I’m not sure what the club and fans expect when they go down this path.

It’s time down the bottom getting beaten comprehensively. There shouldn’t be crisis talks. This is to be expected.

And my club (that you bring into the conversation) is the perfect example.
Expect beatings, but don’t cry out for help if you choose this path.

I want long term success, not short term mediocrity. Crying for help when you’ve chosen that path means there’s something else seriously wrong at the club.

Yes, the thing that's wrong is that we've had no players with currency to trade(you can't force players to leave under contract and the rest were perma-injured) and the fact that the AFL's draft system is cooked. 3 years running now our 2nd rounders will be pick 30+, whilst teams competing for finals get multiple picks inside 20 due to a combo of NGA and father son picks.

Do you think that's fair to a rebuilding team?

People piss and moan about PPs but conveniently ignore all the top teams raiding the pointy end of the draft through concessions other clubs rarely, if at all, get access to.

Don't bullshit me and say it's the luck of the draw.

The draft is cooked and needs to be fixed, or abolished altogether.

 

[Rich01]

Yes, the thing that's wrong is that we've had no players with currency to trade(you can't force players to leave under contract and the rest were perma-injured) and the fact that the AFL's draft system is cooked. 3 years running now our 2nd rounders will be pick 30+, whilst teams competing for finals get multiple picks inside 20 due to a combo of NGA and father son picks.

Do you think that's fair to a rebuilding team?

People piss and moan about PPs but conveniently ignore all the top teams raiding the pointy end of the draft through concessions other clubs rarely, if at all, get access to.

Don't bullshit me and say it's the luck of the draw.

The draft is cooked and needs to be fixed, or abolished altogether.

Ah ok.
So you’ve had no players you could trade with currency. That’s the problem?

Ryan was attracting interest at last contract and would have provided good capital.

Yeo was being offered millions to leave the Eagles last year.

Waterman was also in high demand.

Now I’m not saying West Coast should have offloaded these guys but it’s BS to say they had no players of currency to offload if they wanted to.

And the draft system is to blame? Aha.
Well if that’s the case let’s hand out PPs to all the bottom clubs to compensate. Give Richmond one too. I’m sure that will fix the inadequacy’s you are talking about.

Clubs can either deal with what’s in control or piss and moan. I feel like as a supporter you choose the latter option as it divests any responsibility of where your club is at and how it is going to recover and instead pins it on the system and demands help.

And if you want top five draft picks why don’t you talk to your recruiters and get them to stop trading them out for retreads and lower picks. West Coast have had access and opportunity at the pointy end of the draft for the last three years, but have chosen not to participate there with the exception of one.

 

[Cam Payne]

The PP system is shit, but it's only fair a huge and strong club like west coast receive corporate welfare. It's the Australian way.