Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

Saw references to a couple of ATMs getting set alight a day or two ago. Didn't read too much into it. But the cases of arson are starting to become a bit too numerous to ignore.

I'd love to see the people of Russia get a bit more patriotic and fight to take their country back in the way Ukrainian people have been, however I'm not sure seemingly random acts of anarchic vandalism is the best way to go about it. Of course, a collaborative uprising is barely even possible due to the level of oppression the RF expresses nationwide - the means might need to be more abstract. Maybe there's some method here, or maybe it's just random acts.

Nested links relocated to new links below the article.

An ATM caught fire at a Sberbank branch in Novosibirsk’s Akademgorodok — press service of the regional Main Directorate of the Russian Emergencies Ministry. The incident occurred on December 21. According to preliminary information, there were no casualties.

The fire was presumably caused by arson, and the ATM has now been seized by security forces. The local Telegram channel "Nenaukovy Gorodok" writes that soot and damage to the finish are visible in the premises.

Earlier, pyrotechnics were detonated in two shopping malls in Moscow and the Moscow region, a 70-year-old woman detonated a firecracker in the Fort shopping mall in northeastern Moscow, another explosion thundered in the MFC in the Helios shopping mall in Korolev - a 63-year-old man was detained while attempting to set fire to pyrotechnics again at the police station. It is also known that a Sberbank branch was blown up in St. Petersburg; two St. Petersburg pensioners set fire to a police car; in Anapa, a local resident almost set fire to a bank branch, but was stopped in time.

[ASTRA TG]

Nested links:
Soot & damage to finish: [Nenaukovy Gorodok TG]
Pyrotechnics in shopping malls: [ASTRA TG]
Sberbank branch attack in SPb: [ASTRA TG]
Police car set alight: [ASTRA TG]
Thwarted attempt to set fire to a bank branch: [ASTRA TG]

 

[IlovethePies]

Putins option was obvious. Engineer a counter coup against zelensky which would sufficiently confuse the issue that nato would not act, and Russia would not be a pariah.

I'm not here to suggest what Putin should have or should not have done.
Putin is the representative of the Russian capitalist oligarchy.

Whatever Putin did, it would have represented a conspiracy against both the Russian and the Ukrainian working class.

The working class has to build a party which understands that both the Putin and the Zelensky regimes must be overthrown in a common struggle to stop the war.

 

[IlovethePies]

They're too invested in their bizarre ideology by now AIE.

There's just no backing out or retreating from their rabbit hole - they're entire schtick demands that they stay the course in their odd defense of Russian barbarity.

It's all about doubling and tripling down now for these idiots.

Challenge you Caspar.

Debate me on any topic you like.

Prove that I'm an idiot and you're not.

expect to hear crickets.

 

[IlovethePies]

war crimes have always been normal in my mind.

think it through.... we are talking about so called democratic governments who are now agreeing that it is ok for any government to carry out targeted assassinations against high level military/political figures in another government.

What does this mean, for example, when Trump becomes President?

When Trump was president last time, he carried out the assassination of the Iranian general and political figure, Soleimani.

With the normalisation of terrorism to assassinate military/political figures, what do you think Trump might do this time round??

 

[Zidane98]

think it through.... we are talking about so called democratic governments who are now agreeing that it is ok for any government to carry out targeted assassinations against high level military/political figures in another government.

What does this mean, for example, when Trump becomes President?

When Trump was president last time, he carried out the assassination of the Iranian general and political figure, Soleimani.

With the normalisation of terrorism to assassinate military/political figures, what do you think Trump might do this time round??

Stop the nonsense.


Kirollov was in charge of chemical weapons use against Ukranian soldiers in Ukranian territory on a large scale.

Entirely reasonable to take him out. He's not a pencil pusher like Lavrov who Ukraine wouldn't take out even if they had the chance.

Russia in the meantime attempts to take double agents out on foreign territory with nerve agent. Tries the same with political opposition to Fuehrer Putin. Kills off anyone who is opposed to Fuhrer Putin.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not here to suggest what Putin should have or should not have done.
Putin is the representative of the Russian capitalist oligarchy.

Whatever Putin did, it would have represented a conspiracy against both the Russian and the Ukrainian working class.

The working class has to build a party which understands that both the Putin and the Zelensky regimes must be overthrown in a common struggle to stop the war.

This is pretty bloodthirsty on your part. Ukrainians can't choose their future solely down to fascist Putin invading their country for dreams of creating a new Russian empire.

If you cared about the people of Ukraine you support their fight with their leader to rid Ukraine of fascist Russians for good.


Maybe once that happens and life returns to normal who knows socialism may return to Ukraine.

In the meantime there is only one enemy of the good people of Ukraine. That's Adolf Putin.

 

[Crankyhawk]

think it through.... we are talking about so called democratic governments who are now agreeing that it is ok for any government to carry out targeted assassinations against high level military/political figures in another government.

What does this mean, for example, when Trump becomes President?

When Trump was president last time, he carried out the assassination of the Iranian general and political figure, Soleimani.

With the normalisation of terrorism to assassinate military/political figures, what do you think Trump might do this time round??

On the specific question of trump, I could see him turning against domestic threats first. I don’t expect he would restrain himself from removing an international opponent if there was personal gain (more likely extort personal favors to not kill someone imo)

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'm not here to suggest what Putin should have or should not have done.
Putin is the representative of the Russian capitalist oligarchy.

Whatever Putin did, it would have represented a conspiracy against both the Russian and the Ukrainian working class.

The working class has to build a party which understands that both the Putin and the Zelensky regimes must be overthrown in a common struggle to stop the war.

Had Putin not invaded it is likely zelensky would have collapsed anyway (my recall was that he was unpopular due to failing to deal with corruption issues)

 

[Zidane98]

Another rapid unintended detonation Rostov area