Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You guys were trying to argue that the people I posted doing Nazi salutes at Charlottesville were republicans from Trump's base who supported Israel. Just admit you were wrong. Absolutely bizarre claim. Weird hill to die on.

Be honest, do you think they would support American tax payers money going to fund Israel? In what ways do you think they are pro-Israel? The vast majority of them would hate Israel like they hate Jews.

Charlottesville rally was 'Unite the right'

Netanyahu government is far right.

Trump united them.

 

[Jazny]

Charlottesville rally was 'Unite the right'

Netanyahu government is far right.

Trump united them.

I will never believe you are not aware of the absurdity of your replies.

"Israel “is a pure genocidal state, make no mistake,” Peinovich told rally attendees over a PA system. “We Americans have been snookered into supporting [Israel] by Jewish control of our banks, our media, and our politicians, but we have to say enough and rise up as a people.”

Peinovich went by Mike Enoch and was behind the Unite the Right rally.

Here is Jon Lewis from George Washington University's Program on Extremism from the article:

“They’re (white nationalists attending the pro-palestinian rally) not pro-Palestine, they just hate Jews, and they see this moment as an opportunity to get attention, get coverage, put their banners, their images, their ideas, into reporting patterns... Nine out of ten of them would probably happily commit a hate crime against anyone [at the pro-Palestine protest].

Later in the article:

Last weekend, members of NSC-131, a hardcore neo-Nazi group in New England, gathered on an overpass in Saugus, Massachusetts, outside of Boston, and hung banners and signs saying things like “Free Palestine” as well as “No More Wars for Israel,” and “End Jewish Terror.”

Earlier in October, dozens of masked members of National Socialist Florida, another hardcore neo-Nazi group, assembled along the side of a road in Lady Lake, Florida, about 50 miles outside of Orlando. They had similar signs to their NSC-131 counterparts, plus others with messages like “Our Tax Dollars Fund Israeli Bloodlust” and “The Great Replacement is Real.” National Socialist Florida put together a slickly-edited video of their demonstration which they shared on their social media platforms. “America and Palestine share a similar fate,” text in the video reads. “REPLACEMENT.”

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I will never believe you are not aware of the absurdity of your replies.

"Israel “is a pure genocidal state, make no mistake,” Peinovich told rally attendees over a PA system. “We Americans have been snookered into supporting [Israel] by Jewish control of our banks, our media, and our politicians, but we have to say enough and rise up as a people.”

Peinovich went by Mike Enoch and was behind the Unite the Right rally.

Here is Jon Lewis from George Washington University's Program on Extremism from the article:

“They’re (white nationalists attending the pro-palestinian rally) not pro-Palestine, they just hate Jews, and they see this moment as an opportunity to get attention, get coverage, put their banners, their images, their ideas, into reporting patterns... Nine out of ten of them would probably happily commit a hate crime against anyone [at the pro-Palestine protest].

Later in the article:

Last weekend, members of NSC-131, a hardcore neo-Nazi group in New England, gathered on an overpass in Saugus, Massachusetts, outside of Boston, and hung banners and signs saying things like “Free Palestine” as well as “No More Wars for Israel,” and “End Jewish Terror.”

Earlier in October, dozens of masked members of National Socialist Florida, another hardcore neo-Nazi group, assembled along the side of a road in Lady Lake, Florida, about 50 miles outside of Orlando. They had similar signs to their NSC-131 counterparts, plus others with messages like “Our Tax Dollars Fund Israeli Bloodlust” and “The Great Replacement is Real.” National Socialist Florida put together a slickly-edited video of their demonstration which they shared on their social media platforms. “America and Palestine share a similar fate,” text in the video reads. “REPLACEMENT.”

They are united through Trump, whom most of them voted for.

 

[Jazny]

They are united through Trump, whom most of them voted for.

 

[DapperDon]

I was? Or are you blaming me for something that had nothing to do with me?

We all look alike to Jazny

 

[Ghost Patrol]

View attachment 2175841

Being against a far right government, against apartheid, against genocide and against ethnic cleansing is not antisemitic.

 

[faible]

Being against a far right government, against apartheid, against genocide and against ethnic cleansing is not antisemitic.

He keeps trying to quote Sartre in the wrong context as though it somehow gives him authority.

 

[Jazny]

Okay you guys were embarrassingly wrong about the supposed pro-Israel views of the majority of white nationalist and supremacists in America. That was a truly bizarre one considering their open hatred of Jews and the specific ones I posted were chanting "Jews will not replace us". What's the next topic you guys want to move on to being wrong about?

 

[faible]

Okay you guys were embarrassingly wrong about the supposed pro-Israel views of the majority of white supremacists in America. That was a truly bizarre one considering their open hatred of Jews. What's the next topic you guys want to move on to being wrong about?

You quoted one person from the alt-right. I quoted another. I certainly didn't say 'majority'.

Apparently you're the expert on the views of white supremacists though. Which is perhaps not the flex you want it to be?

Meanwhile, the whole 'Israel are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people' thing we've been telling you for months? Yeah that was right.

 

[Jazny]

Meanwhile, the whole 'Israel are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people' thing we've been telling you for months? Yeah that was right.

Have I ever once claimed that Israel is not committing war crimes? I have said multiple times that I believe they are and it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.

The thing is, you guys are wrong about almost every claim you have ever made. It's insane how consistently wrong you are.

 

[faible]

Have I ever once claimed that Israel is not committing war crimes? I have said multiple times that I believe they are and it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.

The thing is, you guys are wrong about almost every claim you have ever made. It's insane how consistently wrong you are.

Most of these things are you taking a comment out context then demanding deeply semantic arguments about a tiny proportion of it. All so Jazny can claim his internet points.

Meanwhile, Israel mass murders thousands, and all those people telling you (and the others who have spent months trying to downplay or diminish them) that Israel was committing mass atrocities were right.

In before you try to argue about the definition of the word atrocities in order to claim you're right and I'm wrong so you can get some more internet points, whilst the overarching point - Israel is committing crimes against humanity and war crimes on a mass scale - is correct.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Okay you guys were embarrassingly wrong about the supposed pro-Israel views of the majority of white nationalist and supremacists in America. That was a truly bizarre one considering their open hatred of Jews and the specific ones I posted were chanting "Jews will not replace us". What's the next topic you guys want to move on to being wrong about?

With hindsight and given that Netanyahu now has arrest warrants issued by the ICC, do you regret your previously shared views on Western media bias in relation to coverage of Israeli war crimes?

 

[Jazny]

With hindsight and given that Netanyahu now has arrest warrants issued by the ICC, do you regret your previously shared views on Western media bias in relation to coverage of Israeli war crimes?

No, I stand by everything I have ever said unless I corrected it at the time. At no point reading the sources I did was I ever under any illusion that the arrest warrants for Netenyahu wouldn't be issued, and I even correctly said the Israeli defense on the grounds of the principle of complementarity would be rejected by the court. I feel very informed by the sources I read Whether or not he could beat the charges were he ever to face the court I do not know, there isn't enough details available to the public on the allegations and the court's verdict for reasonable grounds, or if there is I havent seen it yet.

 

[Zidane98]

Here's Ghazi Hamad from Hamas on Arabiya recently




"We will accept a Palestiinian state on the 1967 borders but not a Israeli state".



Hamas never will and have accepted Israel despite what some have claimed in here. Infact, their charter specifically mentions not recognising Israel.

The first step to peace post war is a united Palestine without a radical Islamic group running it that seeks to establish a caliphate / annihilate Jews / destroy Israel followed by dissolving Likud government in Israel.

 

[Zidane98]

No, I stand by everything I have ever said unless I corrected it at the time. At no point reading the sources I did was I ever under any illusion that the arrest warrants for Netenyahu wouldn't be issued, and I even correctly said the Israeli defense on the grounds of the principle of complementarity would be rejected by the court. I feel very informed by the sources I read Whether or not he could beat the charges were he ever to face the court I do not know, there isn't enough details available to the public on the allegations and the court's verdict for reasonable grounds, or if there is I havent seen it yet.

My view is that if Bibi believes he is doing the right thing he should face up to the charges in court.

 

[Jazny]

My view is that if Bibi believes he is doing the right thing he should face up to the charges in court.

That would be suicidal. His country is at war. Why would the leader of a country at war turn himself in to a court in a foreign country and be in custody there trusting in a fair process? If he believes he did the right thing, he would also see the court as being either biased or wrong in the first place to find reasonable grounds that he did not. It wouldn't instill faith in the court.

I hate Putin and think he is a war criminal, but I don't expect him to turn himself in and I wouldnt think that the fact he hasn't necessarily means he must be guilty.

 

[faible]

Here's Ghazi Hamad from Hamas on Arabiya recently




"We will accept a Palestiinian state on the 1967 borders but not a Israeli state".



Hamas never will and have accepted Israel despite what some have claimed in here. Infact, their charter specifically mentions not recognising Israel.

The first step to peace post war is a united Palestine without a radical Islamic group running it that seeks to establish a caliphate / annihilate Jews / destroy Israel followed by dissolving Likud government in Israel.

You're mis-reading the charter and what that part means.

Transcript: Ezra Klein Interviews Tareq Baconi

The Dec. 5, 2023, episode of “The Ezra Klein Show.”

www.nytimes.com

This provides more context:

EZRA KLEIN: I do appreciate your point that there are many ways you can see it because in some ways, I feel, as you read it, as I read it, you can feel that effort to satisfy different constituencies all at once. So I want to read to you a pretty core part of it and try to understand how you understand it.

The charter says, quote, “Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June, 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled to be a formula of national consensus.”

Elsewhere, the document also says, “There shall be no recognition of legitimacy of the Zionist entity.” How do you read that? What is being described there?

TAREQ BACONI: So several things are happening here. The first is that this is really the concretization of a position that Hamas began taking during the second intifada, but really formalized in its political platform when it ran for elections in 2005, 2006, which is to say that the movement is willing to accept the creation of a Palestinian state on the ’67 lines with East Jerusalem as its capital, and to limit its military engagement and its resistance against the Israelis to the settlement enterprise, to the military occupation.

This is a political move by Hamas. This is a strategic move in which it’s signaling an opening for a possible diplomatic resolution, if there was a serious effort to engage with that. Now, two things are happening with this decision to not recognize the state of Israel.

The first is a political game. And again, this is where the P.L.O.’s experience becomes important — that where the P.L.O. offered recognition, it ended up negotiating from a position of weakness. That it played all its cards without any kind of commitment from Israeli interlocutors or international interlocutors that they would hold Israel accountable to offering recognition of Palestinian statehood. So that’s a political game.

But it’s also an ideological game. And the ideology here is to your second point around refusing to recognize Zionism. And this is fundamental because this is something that is not limited to Hamas. This is something that Palestinians writ-large would agree on, which is that Zionism was, and is, an illegitimate movement that allowed the colonization of the land of Palestine to settle Jews in Palestine and create a Jewish homeland and a Jewish state.

And it’s really important to understand this, that even in this counterfactual reality of a two-state solution and negotiations to produce Palestinian statehood, that would have been, from the Palestinian perspective, a recognition of a historical fact that now the state of Israel exists, but in no way is that ever a legitimation of Zionism or a legitimation that Zionism had a right to exist or to colonize Palestine the way that it did.

And so for Hamas, what it’s doing here is, it’s articulating that, look, we, as a movement, are pragmatic. We can accept partition. We can accept the establishment of the state of Israel, but ideologically, asking us to accept and legitimize Zionism is actually counter to Palestinian history. And so the movement is speaking to its base, as much as it’s offering a pragmatic or a political opportunity for external interlocutors.

The one other minor point that I want to mention here is that I’ve spoken to people in the movement at that time. And there was also this sense that, actually, even though they’re offering this pragmatic opening and the possibility of this being the beginning of some kind of diplomatic maneuver, that it was also calling the bluff of Israel and of the international community. That, look — and this is something that I was told — we’ve offered more than Likud has. We’ve offered the ’67 line. And no one will take us seriously.

And so there is also this recognition that, actually, it doesn’t serve Israel or Israeli interests to engage with Hamas politically because then they would have to consider the ’67 line and there is a belief that many Palestinians share that Israel is not interested in the ’67 line or in any idea of partition.

 

[faible]

My view is that if Bibi believes he is doing the right thing he should face up to the charges in court.

Netanyahu knows he's done everything he's been accused of.

He also believes he's justified in doing so.

 

[Kurve]

No, I stand by everything I have ever said unless I corrected it at the time. At no point reading the sources I did was I ever under any illusion that the arrest warrants for Netenyahu wouldn't be issued, and I even correctly said the Israeli defense on the grounds of the principle of complementarity would be rejected by the court. I feel very informed by the sources I read Whether or not he could beat the charges were he ever to face the court I do not know, there isn't enough details available to the public on the allegations and the court's verdict for reasonable grounds, or if there is I havent seen it yet.

Re the bolded. Has that been rejected?

 

[Zidane98]

Most of these things are you taking a comment out context then demanding deeply semantic arguments about a tiny proportion of it. All so Jazny can claim his internet points.

Meanwhile, Israel mass murders thousands, and all those people telling you (and the others who have spent months trying to downplay or diminish them) that Israel was committing mass atrocities were right.

In before you try to argue about the definition of the word atrocities in order to claim you're right and I'm wrong so you can get some more internet points, whilst the overarching point - Israel is committing crimes against humanity and war crimes on a mass scale - is correct.

No Faible the charges against Netanyahu & Gallant didn't say this and it is no surprise you try and portray it this way. In before you try to downplay what Hamas & proxies have done to Isarel and continue to do to Israel and claim some unrelated strawman whataboutism.

Israel was found to have committed two direct attacks on civilians in the time period between 8th Oct 2023 and 20th May 2024. I can't find the information on how many victims were in these two incidents, that will presumably come out in the court case. In the worst case scenario we can allow for 50 victims of these two war crimes.

There is also a charge for criminal responsibility for starvation which possibly may have lead to death. There is no information on how many counts of this the ICC are alleging. The court has not found or charged Netanyahu / Gallant with the war crime of extermination (inb4 you claim they are guilty of this anyway despite the court;s finding)

On the other hand the charges against Hamas were actually of murder as a war crime in a coordinated manner.

Finding: This makes part of a mass killing of members of the civilian population, and therefore the crime against humanity of extermination was committed.

They were also charged with rape and sexual violence as a war crime (not as an individual crime by perpetrators). Again, this is a charge against organised use of sexual violence as a war crime against the civilian population of Israel.

And subsequently with kidnapping on a large scale as a war crime too with the intent on using hostages as collateral against Israel.

 

[Jazny]

Re the bolded. Has that been rejected?

For the time being, which allowed them to take action. But it's still open to the possibility if Israel does open an investigation that the ICC sees as being fair and genuine, then principle could come back in to play. If there was an open investigation its my understanding they wouldn't have issued the warrants.

 

[Zidane98]

Netanyahu knows he's done everything he's been accused of.

He also believes he's justified in doing so.

Then if so he and/or his legal representatives should front up to court and defend their position. It is a unique situation when a government of a region Palestine has just committed an unprovoked mass terror attack against civilians of Israel murdering nearly 1000 of them and Israel still is responsible for delivering aid to that government and providing some services. There will be complex arguments here over this for sure. That's not a good situation and needs to not happen again.

In the future no matter what happens there needs to be an agreement that responsibility for Gaza is transferred to the Arab League / official Palestinian government supplied via Egypt.

Israel should have nothing at all to do with governing Gaza in the future apart from work permit programs for Gazan citizens and / or accepting Gazans for medical treatment. All Gaza - West Bank travel should be via Egypt too.

 

[faible]

In the worst case scenario we can allow for 50 victims of these two war crimes.

**** me you get funnier by the day

You're now declaring what we can allow for.

Fun fact Zidane, mass starvation is a crime against humanity. It's a deliberate and sustained attack on the civilian population of Gaza.

This is what Netanyahu has been charged with.

So while you're running around, pretending 'oh they haven't really attacked the civilian population'. You're deeply wrong.

You fail to understand the charges as written. You fail to understand the Hamas charter. You fail to understand a lot of things.

 

[PenskeFile]

Those republicans are big supporters of Netanyahu. They gave him a standing ovation when he visited USA recently.

They gave him what must have been a world record of standing ovations, and whilst the love for Netty was greater from the Republicans, it was Bipartisan.

It’s sickening to see how owned a Government can be and ours is no better

 

[faible]

All Gaza - West Bank travel should be via Egypt too.

This would be rather challenging.