Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[fargy]

Wouldn’t now be the time (of year) to lose someone in that role?

 

[Northern Dogs]

Who is going to be the first to suggest that he was overruled on Crossley?

 

[BarryMorgan]

Who is going to be the first to suggest that he was overruled on Crossley?

Kane Cornes at about 6am tomorrow.

 

[Westerndog11]

“Milesi has resigned because Bevo overruled him recruiting a lumbering, overweight ruckman, who probably won’t get picked outside of injury. What an absolute shambles the dogs are with Bevo in charge, sack him now or the dogs won’t win a game” -Kane Cornes and Damian Barrett probably

 

[Dog 36]

“Milesi has resigned because Bevo overruled him recruiting a lumbering, overweight ruckman, who probably won’t get picked outside of injury. What an absolute shambles the dogs are with Bevo in charge, sack him now or the dogs won’t win a game” -Kane Cornes and Damian Barrett probably

I prefer this

Milesi has resigned because Bevo was adamant he wanted to bring in Brew and Milesi was adamant he wanted Crossely.
They reached an agreement that they would bring in neither. It was at this point that Milesi thought it is best to part ways now rather than at a later point.

 

[Sentinel]

Was Milesi highly valued? Too early to tell for last year but looking at our 4 drafts before that, they're pretty ordinary (Freijah selection aside):

Spoiler: 2023

National - Pick 6	Ryley Sanders	Sandringham Dragons/Tasmania
National - Pick 15 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Jordan Croft	Calder Cannons
National - Pick 45	Joel Freijah	GWV Rebels
National - Pick 47	Lachlan Smith	Gippsland Power
National - Pick 55	Aiden O'Driscoll	Perth (WAFL)
Rookie - Pick 10	Lachlan McNeil	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Rookie - Pick 21	Taylor Duryea	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Mid-Season - Pick 10	Caleb Poulter	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2022

National - Pick 13	Jedd Busslinger	East Perth
National - Pick 24	Charlie Clarke	Sandringham Dragons
National - Pick 39	Harvey Gallagher	Bendigo Pioneers

Spoiler: 2021

National - Pick 2 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Sam Darcy	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 43	Arthur Jones	Claremont
National - Pick 61	Luke Cleary	Sandringham Dragons
Rookie - Pick 15	Charlie Parker	Sturt
Rookie- Pick 23	Robbie McComb	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2020

National - Pick 1 (NGA, matched bid)	Jamarra Ugle-Hagan	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 55	Dominic Bedendo	Murray Bushrangers
Rookie - Pick 11	Lachlan McNeil	Woodville-West Torrens

 

[Mofra]

Was Milesi highly valued? Too early to tell for last year but looking at our 4 drafts before that, they're pretty ordinary (Freijah selection aside):

Spoiler: 2023

National - Pick 6	Ryley Sanders	Sandringham Dragons/Tasmania
National - Pick 15 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Jordan Croft	Calder Cannons
National - Pick 45	Joel Freijah	GWV Rebels
National - Pick 47	Lachlan Smith	Gippsland Power
National - Pick 55	Aiden O'Driscoll	Perth (WAFL)
Rookie - Pick 10	Lachlan McNeil	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Rookie - Pick 21	Taylor Duryea	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Mid-Season - Pick 10	Caleb Poulter	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2022

National - Pick 13	Jedd Busslinger	East Perth
National - Pick 24	Charlie Clarke	Sandringham Dragons
National - Pick 39	Harvey Gallagher	Bendigo Pioneers

Spoiler: 2021

National - Pick 2 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Sam Darcy	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 43	Arthur Jones	Claremont
National - Pick 61	Luke Cleary	Sandringham Dragons
Rookie - Pick 15	Charlie Parker	Sturt
Rookie- Pick 23	Robbie McComb	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2020

National - Pick 1 (NGA, matched bid)	Jamarra Ugle-Hagan	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 55	Dominic Bedendo	Murray Bushrangers
Rookie - Pick 11	Lachlan McNeil	Woodville-West Torrens

It's pretty sober reading when you consider the two biggest hits fell in his lap as NGA/FS picks so really should be excluded when judging his record.

 

[Golden_6]

Was Milesi highly valued? Too early to tell for last year but looking at our 4 drafts before that, they're pretty ordinary (Freijah selection aside):

Spoiler: 2023

National - Pick 6	Ryley Sanders	Sandringham Dragons/Tasmania
National - Pick 15 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Jordan Croft	Calder Cannons
National - Pick 45	Joel Freijah	GWV Rebels
National - Pick 47	Lachlan Smith	Gippsland Power
National - Pick 55	Aiden O'Driscoll	Perth (WAFL)
Rookie - Pick 10	Lachlan McNeil	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Rookie - Pick 21	Taylor Duryea	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Mid-Season - Pick 10	Caleb Poulter	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2022

National - Pick 13	Jedd Busslinger	East Perth
National - Pick 24	Charlie Clarke	Sandringham Dragons
National - Pick 39	Harvey Gallagher	Bendigo Pioneers

Spoiler: 2021

National - Pick 2 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Sam Darcy	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 43	Arthur Jones	Claremont
National - Pick 61	Luke Cleary	Sandringham Dragons
Rookie - Pick 15	Charlie Parker	Sturt
Rookie- Pick 23	Robbie McComb	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2020

National - Pick 1 (NGA, matched bid)	Jamarra Ugle-Hagan	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 55	Dominic Bedendo	Murray Bushrangers
Rookie - Pick 11	Lachlan McNeil	Woodville-West Torrens

I actually think it’s too hard to tell. The 2022 draft was a disaster for every club (seriously go and have a look) with Gallagher a possible inspired selection that year.

Milesi literally hasn’t had any top 40 picks to work with given Jamarra, Darcy & Croft picked themselves. Sanders is the only one.

 

[Foxman98]

Was Milesi highly valued? Too early to tell for last year but looking at our 4 drafts before that, they're pretty ordinary (Freijah selection aside):

Spoiler: 2023

National - Pick 6	Ryley Sanders	Sandringham Dragons/Tasmania
National - Pick 15 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Jordan Croft	Calder Cannons
National - Pick 45	Joel Freijah	GWV Rebels
National - Pick 47	Lachlan Smith	Gippsland Power
National - Pick 55	Aiden O'Driscoll	Perth (WAFL)
Rookie - Pick 10	Lachlan McNeil	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Rookie - Pick 21	Taylor Duryea	Western Bulldogs (re-listed)
Mid-Season - Pick 10	Caleb Poulter	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2022

National - Pick 13	Jedd Busslinger	East Perth
National - Pick 24	Charlie Clarke	Sandringham Dragons
National - Pick 39	Harvey Gallagher	Bendigo Pioneers

Spoiler: 2021

National - Pick 2 (Father-Son, matched bid)	Sam Darcy	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 43	Arthur Jones	Claremont
National - Pick 61	Luke Cleary	Sandringham Dragons
Rookie - Pick 15	Charlie Parker	Sturt
Rookie- Pick 23	Robbie McComb	Footscray Bulldogs

Spoiler: 2020

National - Pick 1 (NGA, matched bid)	Jamarra Ugle-Hagan	Oakleigh Chargers
National - Pick 55	Dominic Bedendo	Murray Bushrangers
Rookie - Pick 11	Lachlan McNeil	Woodville-West Torrens

Will obviously exclude F/S + JUH as he didn't have to do anything,

1 hit 5 meh 5 misses not a great record

Sanders - Meh
Freijah - Massive Hit
Smith - YTP
AOD - Unlucky who knows
Poulter - Meh
Busslinger - YTP
Clarke - Miss
Gallagher - Meh
Jones - Meh
Cleary - Miss
Parker - Miss
McComb - Miss
Bedendo - Miss
McNeil - Meh

 

[DueWest]

I prefer this

Milesi has resigned because Bevo was adamant he wanted to bring in Brew and Milesi was adamant he wanted Crossely.
They reached an agreement that they would bring in neither. It was at this point that Milesi thought it is best to part ways now rather than at a later point.

Or SammyP throwing his weight around in his new role, the power has gone to his head !

 

[stefoid]

Its been weird for him because the best picks have used for F/S or academy. You gotta take the quality of the picks into account though. Judge a recruiter on their round 1 and round 2 picks, with anything later than that being more like a lottery.

We paid a lot for Sanders, so if he is a bust that is a huge black mark. Im not saying anything against Sanders, Im just saying IF On the flip, if Sanders turns out to be a gun and nobody we had access to later in the draft is anything special, then its sheer genius

Busslinger, Clarke and to a lesser extent Gags are his best run at using decent picks other than Sanders.

Who was in charge of recruiting weightman and Baily smith?

 

[Bulldogs85]

Who was in charge of recruiting weightman and Baily smith?

Nick Austin

 

[Doggy]

He left for personal reasons.

People are reading far more into it

 

[The Inbetweener]

Clubs like ours who don't attract high profile free agents need to have the very best recruiters to counter this. Hope we pick wisely

 

[Mofra]

Will obviously exclude F/S + JUH as he didn't have to do anything,

1 hit 5 meh 5 misses not a great record

Sanders - Meh
Freijah - Massive Hit
Smith - YTP
AOD - Unlucky who knows
Poulter - Meh
Busslinger - YTP
Clarke - Miss
Gallagher - Meh
Jones - Meh
Cleary - Miss
Parker - Miss
McComb - Miss
Bedendo - Miss
McNeil - Meh

McNeill and Poulter are arguably hits given how low percentage MSD/rookie picks generally are.

Hard to argue with any of your other rankings.

 

[stefoid]

How much of a draft infrastructure belongs to the club and how much is the top guy?

Im guessing if you have the right eyeballs on players around the country feeding back their opinions, that may be where you get better luck with later 'under the radar' picks. Any 1st or 2nd rounders though.... the top guys should have all the info and video they need

 

[Foxman98]

McNeill and Poulter are arguably hits given how low percentage MSD/rookie picks generally are.

Hard to argue with any of your other rankings.

They were the 2 harder ones to rate because like you said you don't expect much but both are basically just solid depth at best

 

[Mofra]

They were the 2 harder ones to rate because like you said you don't expect much but both are basically just solid depth at best

I still think McNeill has upside, even if just as a pressure forward.

Poulter can kick the ball beautifully but can a player who is so one-sided make it in the modern AFL era? There's still a fair bit to prove with him.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Will obviously exclude F/S + JUH as he didn't have to do anything,

1 hit 5 meh 5 misses not a great record

Sanders - Meh
Freijah - Massive Hit
Smith - YTP
AOD - Unlucky who knows
Poulter - Meh
Busslinger - YTP
Clarke - Miss
Gallagher - Meh
Jones - Meh
Cleary - Miss
Parker - Miss
McComb - Miss
Bedendo - Miss
McNeil - Meh

But yeah you can't judge players this way.

Was Charlie Clarke really a miss when of the 5 players drafted after him (assuming thats roughly who we would have taken), have played a combined 1 AFL game?

 

[Unorth]

Hard to know with Milesi but not be a huge loss like Dalrymple was.

We didn’t really have enough picks for a couple of years due to Marra and Darcy. And really the draft has to be our bread and butter as we can’t rely on getting A grade players to nominate us for a trade or choose us in free agency.

A lot hinging on Sanders and Buss.

Hopefully our large hand in the 2024 draft is something to remember Milesi for (positively). Always good for us to take 4-5 picks to the draft.

 

[Sentinel]

But yeah you can't judge players this way.

Was Charlie Clarke really a miss when of the 5 players drafted after him (assuming thats roughly who we would have taken), have played a combined 1 AFL game?

Yes, he alongside the other 5 were all misses. You absolutely can judge players on their career output, particularly when all is said and done.

It might have been a more difficult pick to get right than most, given what was available around him, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a recruiting failure.

 

[Foxman98]

But yeah you can't judge players this way.

Was Charlie Clarke really a miss when of the 5 players drafted after him (assuming thats roughly who we would have taken), have played a combined 1 AFL game?

Yes Charlie Clarke played 1 game in 2 years and was delisted and could've drafter Joe Richards who played the position and much better at pick 48

 

[doggiesin08]

Yes Charlie Clarke played 1 game in 2 years and was delisted and could've drafter Joe Richards who played the position and much better at pick 48

I don’t think you can cherry pick a single player though. I agree with 3NP of this one when you look at the broader group of players either side of the Clarke selection.

Possibly the “mistake” was not shifting the pick into 2024 but who knows what offers were on the table if any to do so.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yes, he alongside the other 5 were all misses. You absolutely can judge players on their career output, particularly when all is said and done.

It might have been a more difficult pick to get right than most, given what was available around him, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a recruiting failure.

But it was almost impossible for there to have been a recruiting success.

You still have to take three players in every national draft, they haven't gotten rid of that rule. But we also elected in our open list spots to get Gallagher (an over-ager, and a hit in the weak draft), Poulter, Baker and Lobb instead of other players in that 25-50 draft range in which very few players were taken. In terms of our overall assessment of the draft pool, other than nailing the Clarke selection that we were only ever a 10% or whatever chance to get, we did very well to actively avoid taking any of the other 18 year olds other than Clarke that other clubs took a punt on.

Have to look at the whole list management strategy, and all the open list spots we had. We're a lot better for having Lobb, Clarke, Gallagher, Poulter and Baker with those five list spots and four second-round picks (one in 2023), than if we had simply looked to draft another 18 year old with pick 32 or whatever.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yes Charlie Clarke played 1 game in 2 years and was delisted and could've drafter Joe Richards who played the position and much better at pick 48

But then 95% of draft picks are failures if there's always a better pick that was after that pick. Was every draft pick before Nat Fyfe a failure?