Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[VitalDread]

Every year i get told that Dogs are keen on Darcy and doesn't happen
Maybe this might finally happen

 

[Del203211]

I’m late to the party.. but did someone just come on here thinking Lipinski was “Vandermir”?

 

[Northernsoul74]

I’m late to the party.. but did someone just come on here thinking Lipinski was “Vandermir”?

And Essendon is Collingwood.

 

[footscray1973]

Imagine if Laitham Vandermeer

23

Laitham Vandermeer

Age

27

Ht

182cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.1

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

3.6

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.0

4star

doesn't really exist, and it's been Pat Lipinski in disguise?!

 

[Doggies_13]

and I'm saying if he was given a full season playing as a forward, he'd probably get plenty of scoring shots thanks to his contested marking alone.


Wait all you like, I'm not engaging with someone who gets aggro at people he disagrees with, and thinks Bigfooty list management is serious business.

Lake was used as a forward multiple times in his early career and never looked likely as a forward, full season or not he wouldn’t have gotten close to 80 plus shots on goal he was a better mark as a backman than he ever was as a forward.

Your not engaging because you don’t have an answer because you never thought about it properly. It’s the same thing constantly throw Naughton back that fixes everything with out any solution to then replace the goal scoring opportunities which is even further complicated by Bruce’s injury.

If you think I am an aggro poster you have clearly not experienced many of the more combative posters

 

[Del203211]

I know Naughton can be a freak forward.. and I know there’s a lot of controversy around moving him back.. but when I look at Melbourne’s forward line, who are the big name tall forwards? Brown.. McDonald..? Strong in the air? No.
Not world beaters at all. They have a good game plan and a good forward structure that allows them to kick big scores. They are so good because their defence is rock strong. I know what the argument is around leaving him forward because he’s a presence and competes in the air. Maybe it’s time to turn our attention to our forward line structure/game plan rather than personnel? I’d love to be able to beef up our back 6.
Why couldn’t we go into 2022 with our full time key forward pillars being English, Schache and potentially some more of JUH? Could Cordy go back to CHF?

 

[CountryDog5]

Imagine if Laitham Vandermeer doesn't really exist, and it's been Pat Lipinski in disguise?!

Must be a serious Jekyl and Hyde type situation if it has been this whole time, one is an absolute mongrel and the other not so much

 

[Pugz89]

Gee this thread is moving quick and we are only three days into the offseason. Can barely keep up.

 

[CountryDog5]

Gee this thread is moving quick and we are only three days into the offseason. Can barely keep up.

And the absolute majority of it is absolute dribble Pugz, I reckon you're safe skim reading until at least the weekend

 

[Samdogg]

Lake was used as a forward multiple times in his early career and never looked likely as a forward, full season or not he wouldn’t have gotten close to 80 plus shots on goal he was a better mark as a backman than he ever was as a forward.

Your not engaging because you don’t have an answer because you never thought about it properly. It’s the same thing constantly throw Naughton back that fixes everything with out any solution to then replace the goal scoring opportunities which is even further complicated by Bruce’s injury.

If you think I am an aggro poster you have clearly not experienced many of the more combative posters

Lol, I only said I prefer Naughton as a defender than as a forward and you're pressing me for an argument like it's serious business. Sorry mate, I don't care about semantics like this nearly as much as you do. I'll stand by my opinion and I know I'm not the only one who shares it.

If Brian Lake played a full season as a forward in 2009 or 2010, he would probably have a similar number of shots as Naughton, along with a similar number of misses. At the end of the day, he was better in defence, and I feel the same way about Naughton, no matter how much it upsets you.

 

[Hobdog]

Gee this thread is moving quick and we are only three days into the offseason. Can barely keep up.

What do you mean? We’re only trading out Macrae, Vanders, English, Dunkley, Lipinski and bringing in Ladhams, Darcy Macpherson, Jarrod Cameron, Tim O’Brien, Luke Breust, John Ceglar, Ben King and a couple of other random blokes I’ve not heard of


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[Doggies_13]

I know Naughton can be a freak forward.. and I know there’s a lot of controversy around moving him back.. but when I look at Melbourne’s forward line, who are the big name tall forwards? Brown.. McDonald..? Strong in the air? No.
Not world beaters at all. They have a good game plan and a good forward structure that allows them to kick big scores. They are so good because their defence is rock strong. I know what the argument is around leaving him forward because he’s a presence and competes in the air. Maybe it’s time to turn our attention to our forward line structure/game plan rather than personnel? I’d love to be able to beast up our back 6.
Why couldn’t we go into 2022 with our full time key forward pillars being English and Schache?

Ground position established through ruck and midfield dominance allows them to plenty of opportunities on goal. They also have a lot of forward pressure through Pickett, spargo, Neal-bullen. Also brown MacDonald and the resting ruck rarely get our marked which then brings their smalls into play. Scahche and English get out marked a lot, JUH also got out marked due to not being quite physically ready. Our two key forwards that don’t get out marked are Bruce and Naughton. One is already gone.

If you move Naughton back with Bruce already out where would their combined 140+ goals come from? We averaged 13 goals a game this year, 4.3 of those came from Bruce and Naughton.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Was it last year that we had people summarising the discussion that happened each day, and a mod would pin it to the top? That'd be great to do again so we can get to juicy Vandermir goss without wasting time on rubbish about Sam Darcy or Lipinski

 

[CountryDog5]

Lol, I only said I prefer Naughton as a defender than as a forward and you're pressing me for an argument like it's serious business. Sorry mate, I don't care about semantics like this nearly as much as you do. I'll stand by my opinion and I know I'm not the only one who shares it.

If Brian Lake played a full season as a forward in 2009 or 2010, he would probably have a similar number of shots as Naughton, along with a similar number of misses. At the end of the day, he was better in defence, and I feel the same way about Naughton, no matter how much it upsets you.

Why don't you fellas take your bickering to the Naughton forward or back thread? This isn't the place for it.

 

[Del203211]

Ground position established through ruck and midfield dominance allows them to plenty of opportunities on goal. They also have a lot of forward pressure through Pickett, spargo, Neal-bullen. Also brown MacDonald and the resting ruck rarely get our marked which then brings their smalls into play. Scahche and English get out marked a lot, JUH also got out marked due to not being quite physically ready. Our two key forwards that don’t get out marked are Bruce and Naughton. One is already gone.

If you move Naughton back with Bruce already out where would their combined 140+ goals come from? We averaged 13 goals a game this year, 4.3 of those came from Bruce and Naughton.

Hmm yeah true. If Bruce was fit and firing and no injury I’d be all in on Naughts back and English full time forward.

 

[Doggies_13]

Lol, I only said I prefer Naughton as a defender than as a forward and you're pressing me for an argument like it's serious business. Sorry mate, I don't care about semantics like this nearly as much as you do. I'll stand by my opinion and I know I'm not the only one who shares it.

If Brian Lake played a full season as a forward in 2009 or 2010, he would probably have a similar number of shots as Naughton, along with a similar number of misses. At the end of the day, he was better in defence, and I feel the same way about Naughton, no matter how much it upsets you.

Doesnt Upset me one bit. Your opinion is flawed, you have zero way of backing up your statement about lake. You clearly won’t last around here long if you get so fragile when someone questions your opinion and asks you to support it with stats or facts you get sulky.

 

[footscray1973]

If Brian Lake played a full season as a forward in 2009 or 2010, he would probably have a similar number of shots as Naughton, along with a similar number of misses. At the end of the day, he was better in defence, and I feel the same way about Naughton, no matter how much it upsets you.

"If" and "probably".
Naughton generates a ton of ground ball for our other forwards even when he doesn't mark it, his second and third efforts were not traits ever exhibited by Lake even at his peak
Whether you want Naughton back or forward is your opinion, but the marks, shots at goal and contests and tackles he generates are statistical facts.

 

[Angak]

Why does being a great contested mark automatically mean you're a key-forward prospect?

Alex Rance, Jeremy McGovern, Brian Lake, Steven May and Darcy Moore have all been fantastic contested marking players in the last 10 years. They were also best utilized in defence.

There is a difference between taking a contested mark at full back vs full forward. Darcy Moore being case in point. None of the players you've mentioned above have come close to what Naughton can do forward.

 

[footscray1973]

Hmm yeah true. If Bruce was fit and firing and no injury I’d be all in on Naughts back and English full time forward.

The problem is, Bruce and Naughton both generated goals for each other, as oppo defenders couldn't peel off one to double team the other. They also blocked for each other constantly. Our forward line was firing early in the season with ALL of Naughton, Bruce and English forward.

 

[Doggies_13]

Hmm yeah true. If Bruce was fit and firing and no injury I’d be all in on Naughts back and English full time forward.

If Bruce wasn’t out for basically the season we could take that chance but without Bruce I don’t see how we move Naughton back without then struggling to score enough to win each week.

I think if English plays like he did pre-concussion he could fill some of that load as he was averaging like 1.9 goals a game pre-concussion and was on track for a 40 goal season, he kicked 10 goals in the last 16 games.

JUH I don’t think can fill the void he’s going to be very up and down next year. Scahche I just don’t have faith in, every time you think he has turned the corner he regresses again.

 

[The Buck]

Here's something interesting from the Cambridge dictionary:
"A troll is someone who leaves an intentionally annoying or offensive message on the internet, in order to upset someone or to get attention or cause trouble."

 

[footscray1973]

If Bruce wasn’t out for basically the season we could take that chance but without Bruce I don’t see how we move Naughton back without then struggling to score enough to win each week.

I think if English plays like he did pre-concussion he could fill some of that load as he was averaging like 1.9 goals a game pre-concussion and was on track for a 40 goal season, he kicked 10 goals in the last 16 games.

JUH I don’t think can fill the void he’s going to be very up and down next year. Scahche I just don’t have faith in, every time you think he has turned the corner he regresses again.

Stick to your guns Doggies_13

Bruce and Naughton are a great forward combo, as you've pointed out with the number of combined scores they generated. Don't crumble and concede Naughton back now!

 

[Angak]

Lol, I only said I prefer Naughton as a defender than as a forward and you're pressing me for an argument like it's serious business. Sorry mate, I don't care about semantics like this nearly as much as you do. I'll stand by my opinion and I know I'm not the only one who shares it.

If Brian Lake played a full season as a forward in 2009 or 2010, he would probably have a similar number of shots as Naughton, along with a similar number of misses. At the end of the day, he was better in defence, and I feel the same way about Naughton, no matter how much it upsets you.

This is so silly. We tried Lake forward at the dogs he had no idea what he was doing. It's a different game as a forward where the opposition plan/scheme to stop you and you have to be proactive compared to a fullback where you have freedom to float across and play in a reactive role.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

I'm not watching it again mate, forget it. All I know is that our rucks were terrible. In the 3rd quarter when the game was on a knifes edge or at least seemingly so; our rucks didn't stand up. Not one bit of physical presence.
The taps went forward and Petracca and Oliver had a picnic.
For a start if our rucks were anything but hopeless then the taps might have been contested and then our mids may have had a chance at evening the contest. At the start of the game Stef was nullifying Gawn slightly. That is all that was required later on. But we weren't capable of it.
Martin has a lot of miles on the clock but English has no excuse for the limp efforts he produces in the ruck. He's a big bloke and centre bounces don't need strength, just commitment. He isn't committed at centre bounces, that's why I'm critical of the rucks and not the mids. The mids were beaten but it was because in a large part because of our ruck deficiencies.

The idea that players have “no excuses for limp efforts” kind of shits me tbh. It’s not SuperCoach. It’s not rocking robots. They are flesh and bone and the boys had a massive finals campaign to get through. English was up against the best ruck tandem in the league. He didn’t stand up but it’s one game and he has credits in his bank from others including v Port where we won by 70 odd ourselves. We need a 1st ruck - English isn’t that - but IMO he’s still a fine footy player and I think he’ll come back and surprise plenty including the Essendon cheer squad that pretends to be media pundits.

 

[Chops]

It is. But so is goal kicking accuracy, the way goals are kicked, defensive pressure, leading patterns, creating space, workrate etc.
I am saying he is an exciting player, nothing better than seeing him on song. But he is too easily defended, he doesn't have natural forward craft. Therefore I think he's wasted when he is a natural defender and we need defenders.
I personally thought Bruce was our best forward this year because he is more efficient.

?
Now you just making stuff up on 1 game. 47 goals and 65 contested marks just you proves wacky theory that he is easily defended is incorrect.
Of course he can improve and get better in a number of areas but he is 21!

Again we move Naughton back and the hole on our forward line will open up bigger than any problem we have in the backline.


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