The war against renewable energy

[Sphynx]

A Lifepo4 battery has no nickel no cobalt and no manganese ….

Which makes them inherently cheaper.

There is your answer why the Tesla's and BYD of the world use them. It's not even their stability advantages.

Race to the bottom and market pressures, as always.

It's not some environmental initiative.

There's plenty of issues with them vs other options.

 

[nut]

Which makes them inherently cheaper.

There is your answer why the Tesla's and BYD of the world use them. It's not even their stability advantages.

Race to the bottom and market pressures, as always.

It's not some environmental initiative.

There's plenty of issues with them vs other options.

Plenty of what issues???

They are cheaper, safer, have more cycles and better for environment.
The only down side to Lifepo is they are bigger… so slightly less capacity.

 

[Sphynx]

Plenty of what issues???

They are cheaper, safer, have more cycles and better for environment.
The only down side to Lifepo is they are bigger… so slightly less capacity.

They are bigger because they aren't as near efficient.

They also don't have the same recycling effectiveness, because they don't have the nickel and cobalt in them (bit of a circle argument, I know).

They've just incorporated a cheaper option and offset the efficiency and power reduction by designing a bigger battery into their systems.

Most battery technology is going the opposite way though - smaller and more powerful.

I Like LifePo4 batteries for what it's worth. I just put two in my house.

 

[nut]

They are bigger because they aren't as near efficient.

They also don't have the same recycling effectiveness, because they don't have the nickel and cobalt in them (bit of a circle argument, I know).

They've just incorporated a cheaper option and offset the efficiency and power reduction by designing a bigger battery into their systems.

Most battery technology is going the opposite way though - smaller and more powerful.

I Like LifePo4 batteries for what it's worth. I just put two in my house.

Most of battery technological advancement are in Lifepo4…. Watt density is is getting better and better.
There are no major disadvantages with lifepo4. The majority of EV battery packs are now Lifepo4.
They are basically 100% recyclable.
More cycles
Better charging .. they can take 100% charge more frequently with out as much degradations.
Safer

There are no “plenty of issues” only more advantages…

 

[swingdog]

I assume all those concerned about the dirtiness of batteries are equally passionate about the contribution of internal combsution engines to climate change?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'd prefer better conditions, but as people like Nuts want cheaper EVs, then sadly, this is the consequence. Indonesia has a very large lithium deposit. Does anyone really think the Chinese lithium mine is going to be any different to their nickel one.

And again, all of this is for EVs.

They aren't building cars in Indonesia because its cheap, they are building cars in Indonesia because its 10% or 50% more expensive to import them ( depending on free trade agreements ).
No doubt the Indonesian government has similar incentives for using locally produced materials.

In general the Chinese are trying to improve their workplace safety.
But once out of China some of the countries can get a bit gung ho.

Companies relying on image, such as BYD, have been embarrassed by contractors.

Brazil shuts BYD factory site over 'slavery' conditions

More than 160 workers have been rescued from the car factory, according to local prosecutors.

www.bbc.com

 

[nut]

I assume all those concerned about the dirtiness of batteries are equally passionate about the contribution of internal combsution engines to climate change?

Yer like Cobalt is used to refine every litre of petrol and diesel.
Funny how we don’t talk about cobalt anymore

 

[nut]

SA breaking records…. Power Raid
It’s happening wether you like it or not

Highest ever battery discharge in South Australia

Record | Sat, 5 Apr 2025, 7:05 am

openelectricity.org.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

SA breaking records…. Power Raid
It’s happening wether you like it or not

Highest ever battery discharge in South Australia

Record | Sat, 5 Apr 2025, 7:05 am

openelectricity.org.au

Like running half the old Hazelwood Power station for 5 minutes.
Let me know when the other 23H and 55 minutes is a goer.

 

[nut]

Like running half the old Hazelwood Power station for 5 minutes.
Let me know when the other 23H and 55 minutes is a goer.

Early days… massive batteries currently under construction.

 

[mrherman]

You mean emissions, not omissions.

autocorrect

 

[mrherman]

This is great news, provided battery prices don't suddenly increase in price blaming tariffs.

Home battery rebate hailed as most crucial consumer energy policy since rooftop solar. Here's how it will work

The home battery rebate is being hailed as the most significant consumer energy policy in decades. Here's how it will work and who will benefit.

reneweconomy.com.au

thats great. but cities are now going higher density as governments love cramming people in cities, so that only applies to wealthy and the ignorant boomer who brought there house while assembling cars down at holden while wife doris or jenny was at home cooking scones for when the 2.5 kids arrive home from school

 

[peetoo]

thats great. but cities are now going higher density as governments love cramming people in cities, so that only applies to wealthy and the ignorant boomer who brought there house while assembling cars down at holden while wife doris or jenny was at home cooking scones for when the 2.5 kids arrive home from school

Just be informed dual income households were all the rage in the sixties an seventies

Signed an ignorant boomer

 

[mrherman]

Just be informed dual income households were all the rage in the sixties an seventies

Signed an ignorant boomer

the part time second income did yes. the full time second income in the late 80s after Keating reformed the capital controls and opened the flood gates to corrupts investment if any one that had a dollar to spend causing inflation and bloated pricing of everything.

signed not a boomer but one that wantas to know how we got in to this mess

 

[peetoo]

the part time second income did yes. the full time second income in the late 80s after Keating reformed the capital controls and opened the flood gates to corrupts investment if any one that had a dollar to spend causing inflation and bloated pricing of everything.

signed not a boomer but one that wantas to know how we got in to this mess

That wasn’t the boomer picture you painted

 

[SaintsSeptember]

thats great. but cities are now going higher density as governments love cramming people in cities, so that only applies to wealthy and the ignorant boomer who brought there house while assembling cars down at holden while wife doris or jenny was at home cooking scones for when the 2.5 kids arrive home from school

My Ex chose to stay home while the kids were at school, so we were always semi-destitute. She messed around with little part time things like tuppaware, and working in a cafe.
DId i get scones...No i bloody did not , she thought she was baking if she made jelly.
Dammit... but you're right that those in apartments probably won't be able to do the solar with storage thing.

Also i'm right in the end of what gets classified boomer, it was the early boomers who did really well.

 

[mrherman]

That wasn’t the boomer picture you painted

older generation?

 

[mrherman]

My Ex chose to stay home while the kids were at school, so we were always semi-destitute. She messed around with little part time things like tuppaware, and working in a cafe.
DId i get scones...No i bloody did not , she thought she was baking if she made jelly.
Dammit... but you're right that those in apartments probably won't be able to do the solar with storage thing.

Also i'm right in the end of what gets classified boomer, it was the early boomers who did really well.

the old Tupperware and Amway lol....Tupperware the once very powerful brands of the world filed for bankruptcy late last year

a lot of those apartments are slowly heading towards the way of Europe, where they are owned by large corporations and set up to build to rent so the solar panels will benifet wealthy home owners and large corporations

 

[nut]

BYO Balcony solar systems are a big thing in Europe. Plug and play systems.. portable power packs. There are options coming for renters and apartments.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They are bigger because they aren't as near efficient.

They also don't have the same recycling effectiveness, because they don't have the nickel and cobalt in them (bit of a circle argument, I know).

They've just incorporated a cheaper option and offset the efficiency and power reduction by designing a bigger battery into their systems.

Most battery technology is going the opposite way though - smaller and more powerful.

I Like LifePo4 batteries for what it's worth. I just put two in my house.

The best home battery is not necessarily the best car battery.
For example, no-one gives a crap if the home battery is heavier.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

BYO Balcony solar systems are a big thing in Europe. Plug and play systems.. portable power packs. There are options coming for renters and apartments.

800W with no control over the amount of sunlight it will get.
That might not be enough to run an aircon.

 

[nut]

The best home battery is not necessarily the best car battery.
For example, no-one gives a crap if the home battery is heavier.

Nimc batteries are best operated between 20-80%. It’s not recommended to continually fully charge them unless you are doing a long trip.
Where as Lifepo4 are ok to be charged to 100% provided You don’t leave them fully charged for a long time..
so the actual daily usage or ranges of a Lifepo4 is sometimes better.
Example would be MG4 excite 51 (Lifepo4) 10-100% or 45kwh compared to MG4 essence 64 NMC 20-80% 38kwh range.
Lifepo4 is the superior chemistry IMO…. Especially for reliability and cycles.

 

[nut]

800W with no control over the amount of sunlight it will get.
That might not be enough to run an aircon

No but it would still save a significant amount of usage costs.

 

[mrherman]

BYO Balcony solar systems are a big thing in Europe. Plug and play systems.. portable power packs. There are options coming for renters and apartments.

you donjt pay attention to the real world do you. Europe tried the renewable and battery path and it didnt work and are stuffed from it

 

[nut]

you donjt pay attention to the real world do you. Europe tried the renewable and battery path and it didnt work and are stuffed from it

‘If 1.5m Germans have them there must be something in it’: how balcony solar is taking off

Balcony solar panels can save 30% on a typical household’s electricity bill and, with vertical surface area in cities larger than roof space, the appeal is clear

www.theguardian.com