The Nuclear debate

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Costs in China are growing and reducing their economic advantage while worldwide demand booms. Nations are also realising that Chinese economic/trade policy cannot be trusted under the Xi dictatorship.

Power should be a national industry that is protected from all foreign influence or threat.

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Worldwide demand isn't booming through. In fact, its flat lined and expected to remain flat for some time. We missed the high growth period (2013 - 2022). So there is no need for additional solar panel production capacity worldwide to meet demand.

Any money we through into panel production would be a waste.

 

[Rob R]

Worldwide demand isn't booming through. In fact, its flat lined and expected to remain flat for some time. We missed the high growth period (2013 - 2022). So there is no need for additional solar panel production capacity worldwide to meet demand.

Any money we through into panel production would be a waste.

i didn't realise it has levelled off when so much of the world needs more renewable.

What is sad is that a key part of the panel technology was Australian but we didn't invest quickly and it was stolen from UNSW and used in China.

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[Seeds]

Costs in China are growing and reducing their economic advantage while worldwide demand booms. Nations are also realising that Chinese economic/trade policy cannot be trusted under the Xi dictatorship.

Power should be a national industry that is protected from all foreign influence or threat.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Battery prices fell 50 percent in china last year. Thats in a single year. Its incredible.

 

[Rob R]

Battery prices fell 50 percent in china last year. Thats in a single year. Its incredible.

Costs are increasing - prices are reducing due to massive government subsidies to try and run foreign competitors out of business triggering long overdue tarrifs from Europe etc that we should be enacting

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[SaintsSeptember]

How’s the investment though when it’s been turned down?

Yep, i agree, i can't see how the whole shebang will work well under private enterprise.
If we hadn't privatized it all, whatever method we used would be a lot easier, and the energy retail prices would be lower.
Too many players all taking their cut.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Costs are increasing - prices are reducing due to massive government subsidies to try and run foreign competitors out of business triggering long overdue tarrifs from Europe etc that we should be enacting

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Why , what competitors do we have?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Battery prices fell 50 percent in china last year. Thats in a single year. Its incredible.

Probably more a reflection of commodity supply/demand than manufacturing cost.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A sample of recent LNP major infrastructure projects:

NBN

• initial projected cost $29.5 billion
• actual cost $51 billion

Snowy 2.0

• initial projected cost $2 billion
• current projected cost $12 billion

Inland Rail

• initial projected cost $9.3 billion
• current projected cost $31.4 billion

The biggest lie the Australian public has ever been sold is that the LNP are the party of good Economic management. Truth of the matter is they are corrupt economic vandals that only care for profits for their mates/masters. They cannot be trusted with anything.

Personally i think both governments use a standard form to send out for estimates. On the bottom , in bold it says. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU QUOTE LOW AND RIP US OFF DURING CONSTRUCTION.

Have we ever had a big project ever that came in on budget, and close to the original estimate?

 

[nut]

Costs are increasing - prices are reducing due to massive government subsidies to try and run foreign competitors out of business triggering long overdue tarrifs from Europe etc that we should be enacting

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Why would we add tariffs which are taxes to renewables?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Imagine how much storage could be bought for $331B?

Would comfortably pay for a decent battery for every Australian household!

And an Aluminum Factory?

I work with a very small manufacturing company, a Tesla Powerwall would give us around 10 minutes.

 

[nut]

Yep, i agree, i can't see how the whole shebang will work well under private enterprise.
If we hadn't privatized it all, whatever method we used would be a lot easier, and the energy retail prices would be lower.
Too many players all taking their cut.

WA not privatised and are still investing in solar and batteries….

Why nuclear and renewables will never work together

Nuclear power and renewables ‘can’t work together’ in WA’s electricity grid and the emergence of long-duration big batteries over the next decade will signal ‘game over’ for traditional baseload generators.

thewest.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Also this sounds like a vote winner… 4 million houses getting screwed.

that will happen under renewables as well.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How’s the investment though when it’s been turned down?

Think about it , batteries, pumped hydro and other storage will be in the same boat.
There will be some days when the wind blows all night, and the sun shines all day, and the batteries will be sitting there fully charged.
Then , on the occasions when there is little wind or sun, they will need to price their electricity for payback.

Like i said, it doesn't make a lot of sense under private ownership. Under state ownership would be a lot better.

Private Powerstation, ( solar, wind , etc ) wants to make enough money to pay for their investment + Profit.
Private storage - want to make enough money to pay for their investment + Profit.
SP Ausnet etc - want to cover their infrastructure costs + profit.
Retailers- answer the phone. Apply markup and make profit.
AEMO - cover costs.

Under public sector, all of the above would be set up to cover costs.

 

[nut]

that will happen under renewables as well.

No because they won’t be forced off the grid…
Yes there will be times of curtailment but as more and more storage comes online there will be demand.
Nuclear destroys the demand and because Nuclear can’t compete they’ll have to block solar completely to make nuclear viable.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

No because they won’t be forced off the grid…
Yes there will be times of curtailment but as more and more storage comes online there will be demand.
Nuclear destroys the demand and because Nuclear can’t compete they’ll have to block solar completely to make nuclear viable.

Nuclear negates the need to have as much storage as you have a more stable, predictable base load to reply upon.

 

[Rob R]

Why would we add tariffs which are taxes to renewables?

Because if we allow someone to run their competitors out of business that leads to price rises in the future as we have seen in industries here in Australia.

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[Sttew]

A sample of recent LNP major infrastructure projects:

NBN

• initial projected cost $29.5 billion
• actual cost $51 billion

Snowy 2.0

• initial projected cost $2 billion
• current projected cost $12 billion

Inland Rail

• initial projected cost $9.3 billion
• current projected cost $31.4 billion

The biggest lie the Australian public has ever been sold is that the LNP are the party of good Economic management. Truth of the matter is they are corrupt economic vandals that only care for profits for their mates/masters. They cannot be trusted with anything.

Written and spoken by a hopelessly biased rusted on leftist

 

[Festerz]

Written and spoken by a hopelessly biased rusted on leftist

Like this one?



Face it mate, if the Australian Financial Review is attacking the LNP Coalition for cooking its numbers on its main policy item then the game really is up for old mate Dutton credibility wise.

 

[nut]

Because if we allow someone to run their competitors out of business that leads to price rises in the future as we have seen in industries here in Australia.

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Huh?
China makes over 90% of solar panels and they drop in price every year… battery prices the same.
The only reason the US and Europe are introducing tariffs is to protect fossil fuel companies….

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No because they won’t be forced off the grid…
Yes there will be times of curtailment but as more and more storage comes online there will be demand.
Nuclear destroys the demand and because Nuclear can’t compete they’ll have to block solar completely to make nuclear viable.

I don't think you understand.
How do you suggest that huge energy storage devices will be paid for?

 

[nut]

I don't think you understand.
How do you suggest that huge energy storage devices will be paid for?

Simple. Charge cheaper than what you sell back to the grid.
Solar if extremely cheap.
People can already see the price difference from off peak to peak.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Simple. Charge cheaper than what you sell back to the grid.
Solar if extremely cheap.
People can already see the price difference from off peak to peak.

Yes, and they will have high prices when they sell back to the grid.
Who cares what they pay for the electricity, they need to get back the capital they put into building the thing.
Once its paid for, greed will take hold.

 

[nut]

Yes, and they will have high prices when they sell back to the grid.
Who cares what they pay for the electricity, they need to get back the capital they put into building the thing.
Once its paid for, greed will take hold.

If the Electricity wholesale market is regulated properly, competition will bring down prices.
Hopefully more peer to peer retailers pop up too, allowing people buy and sell from each other.
We have the cheapest solar and batteries in the world, if large scale battery owners want to raise unrealistic price, then more and more people will leave the grid or get there own solar a batteries.
In before - yes not everyone can get solar and batteries… that’s why I mentioned peer to peer.

 

[nut]

From a popular Facebook group just now… and their system is relatively small.


The go onto say they charge their car away from home once a week and bring that power home to heat and run their house.

I’m predicting thousands and thousands of people will go off grid in the next 2-3 years when people understand the advantages of EVs and V2L.

 

[nut]

Another article

How home owners can save $6000 a year and stay cool

New modelling shows that spending $25,000 on improving energy efficiency – and driving an EV – can save $300,000 over a 25-year mortgage.

www.theage.com.au