The most unlucky player not to be an AA
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- May 5, 2006
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Cummings kicked 88 goals in 22 games. Lloyd kicked 77 in 20. It's not as though Lloyd kicked a goal or two less in half the games.
Lloyd was selected as full forward, and it remains the wrong decision today.
If Lloyd was going to be selected based on his amazing contribution other than goalkicking then he should have displaced Carey or Richardson.
Had Lloyd ever won a Coleman Medal and not been selected in the AA side there would have been an uproar.
You don't think Lloyd had anything to do with Essendon being a much better team? He was arguably the best player at Essendon that season; arguably the best player in the team that won the most games in the home and away season.
So by that ridiculous logic, the All-Australian ruckman should be chosen based on who gets the most hitouts regardless of total impact, since that is their sole responsibility.
One responsibility of full-forwards is to kick goals. But you're suggesting that Lloyd be penalised for being more than a one dimensional goalkicker. You're actually arguing that being more versatile is a bad thing. The full forward can be more than just a goalkicker and the All Australian position is for best player playing the full forward position, not an award for the best goalkicker.
As for the players, when Cummings did not kick goals he had no impact upon the game. None. When he did not kick goals he was a liability on the field. Lloyd could have an impact on the game even when he did not kick goals, he could create play he could venture outside the fifty and contribute to the game. As a result, his season was noticeably better than Cummings. They averaged approximately the same number of goals but Lloyd had 4.5 more possessions per game, more marks, more contested possessions. Seriously, Cummings' contribution to the Eagles was not even close to Lloyd's contribution to the Bombers that season.
Imagine a scenario, Lloyd wins a hypotetical Coleman Medal by a few goals from Buddy Franklin. But Lloyd's on his last legs, he's only getting 10 possessions a game and he's a liability defensively because he simply can no longer get up and down the ground. Franklin on the other hand is everywhere, he's kicking goals, he's getting goal assists, he's averaging 15 possessions a game and plays out of the goalsquare. Who should be All Australian? Buddy, it's not even a debate and there should not be any uproar. In that scenario, Buddy would have easily been the better performer and as a result he earns the All-Australian nod.
pantskyle
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Matt Priddis.
Pretty simple... not a patch on Lloyd, Carey, Richo or whoever else you care to mention. In that or any other year. Goal tally might be good, but Cummings was always very slow and pretty selfish.
Got dropped about 10 weeks later, didn't he? Halfway through 2000?
I remember Lockett was asked about who should have been the AA full forward for the year in question, " Cummings won the Coleman, that's the answer. The AA selectors are dills to think otherwise".
Anyway I've heard it all, Cummings is one dimensional compared to Harry Highpants !!!!.
- Jun 18, 2008
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Tyson Edwards owns this
This year could see the biggest 'changing of the guard' when it comes to the AA - out of last years team, Pendlebury, Swan, Murphy, Cox and maybe Ablett would be locks for this year's team. Even Judd would probably be on the outer at this stage, with the likes of JPK, Dangerfield, S.Thompson, Sidebottom, S. Selwood, Stanton, Deledio, Lewis etc all having to be considered for midfield/HBF/HFF positions.
Impunity!
Brownlow Medallist
Rowan Jones
- Aug 17, 2006
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Yep...except for the fact that Mooney kicked more goals from more games (67 at 2.68 per game to 61 at 2.77 per game) and took far more marks. Like saying Jack Riewoldt was robbed by Travis Cloke (who incidentally, had pretty similar stats to Mooney in 2007) last year. Well, ok...it's not that bad, but it's not impossible to mount a case that Mooney deserved his spot in the 2007 All-Australian team. I'm sure Lucas would be happy enough with his pair of Crichtons...
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Plugger35
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Sam Gilbert should have been AA in 2009 and 2010.
Absolute disgrace that guys like Nick Maxwell and Harry O'Brien were selected ahead of him.
Absolute disgrace that guys like Nick Maxwell and Harry O'Brien were selected ahead of him.
- Jun 5, 2004
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In reply to the Cummings/Lloyd argument: It's not even so much that Lloyd was selected ahead of Cummings, both could fit into the side if the selectors desired.
Cummings was the leading goalkicker for the year. Every other year that is the criteria for the AA Full Forward. Doesn't matter whether they are "more versatile" or not. Doesn't matter if he's a "one dimensional, selfish" player. A guy like Fevola made the AA side twice by being exactly that (and kicking less goals), and in fact made the side a third time WITHOUT being the Coleman Medallist and being the same "one dimensional, seflsih" player he's always been.
Lloyd should not enter the argument being made here. The question is who is unlucky to have not made the AA side, and surely, Essendon/West Coast/whatever supporter should agree - Cummings, on his 1999 season, merited selection.
You can make all sorts of superfluous arguments you like, such as "why should the Coleman Medallist get auto selected?", in which case you could argue that the Brownlow Medallist should also be auto selected, premiership captain should be auto selected, as the premiership coach currently gets auto selected. But the fact remains, every other year including 9 occassions, since the current format of the AA team has been selected, where the Coleman Medallist kicked LESS goals than Cummings did and yet still made the team. His missed selection is probably more absurded than some of the captaincy decisions selectors have made in past years.
Cummings was the leading goalkicker for the year. Every other year that is the criteria for the AA Full Forward. Doesn't matter whether they are "more versatile" or not. Doesn't matter if he's a "one dimensional, selfish" player. A guy like Fevola made the AA side twice by being exactly that (and kicking less goals), and in fact made the side a third time WITHOUT being the Coleman Medallist and being the same "one dimensional, seflsih" player he's always been.
Lloyd should not enter the argument being made here. The question is who is unlucky to have not made the AA side, and surely, Essendon/West Coast/whatever supporter should agree - Cummings, on his 1999 season, merited selection.
You can make all sorts of superfluous arguments you like, such as "why should the Coleman Medallist get auto selected?", in which case you could argue that the Brownlow Medallist should also be auto selected, premiership captain should be auto selected, as the premiership coach currently gets auto selected. But the fact remains, every other year including 9 occassions, since the current format of the AA team has been selected, where the Coleman Medallist kicked LESS goals than Cummings did and yet still made the team. His missed selection is probably more absurded than some of the captaincy decisions selectors have made in past years.
All Australian though
Both their stats were similar in 07, Mooney prob got the nod because cats were so dominant and he was seen as somewhat of an enforcer.
Pinch hit in the ruck and plenty of goal assists too, worty on that seasons output.
Having said that Lucas was a very good player throughout his career, only negatives no right foot and too hungry for goal.
Mooney got lucky that year, he should be the nomination for the luckiest player to get an AA position.
Spot on. Maxwell maybe deserved...but so did Gilbert. Not enough recognition for being the best defensive side of all time in 2009.
Tyson Edwards, Brett Deledio, Scott Lucas the glaring ones.
Everything about your post and avatar just screams 2005.
The Teacher
Team Captain
Add to the list of unlucky fullbacks alngside Mal Michael, Max Hudghton. Particularly unlucky in 2008, but was a top full back for most of his career without ever getting in. Prestigiacomo I don't rate as highly but was unlucky as well.
From reading this thread I'd have to say Lucas strikes me as the best player not to make it and Scott Cummings the most unlucky in any given season. Doubt another player will ever win a Coleman but miss out on an AA spot.
No point listing players like Deledio where it's pretty clear it's just a matter of time for them (like Sam Mitchell last year).
From reading this thread I'd have to say Lucas strikes me as the best player not to make it and Scott Cummings the most unlucky in any given season. Doubt another player will ever win a Coleman but miss out on an AA spot.
No point listing players like Deledio where it's pretty clear it's just a matter of time for them (like Sam Mitchell last year).
- Thread starter
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He has been an AA.....
BEEG
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Scott Burns
Very underrated was always Pies 2nd best Mid and should have got a look in atleast in our GF years
Heath Shaw
Always his own doing
Mal Michael
Tyson Edwards
Scott Cummins
Scott Lucas
Very underrated was always Pies 2nd best Mid and should have got a look in atleast in our GF years
Heath Shaw
Always his own doing
Mal Michael
Tyson Edwards
Scott Cummins
Scott Lucas
