Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[Beerfish]

Noddy Holder?

Actually it seems he never went into politics. Maybe I conflated him and Screaming Lord Sutch.

 

[BrunoV]

Best I can think of is Bob Katter somehow coming to lead the Coalition.

Maybe it's just Rudd.

He was very popular among the electorate but was fought by the establishment of his party as much as the opposition.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Maybe it's just Rudd.

He was very popular among the electorate but was fought by the establishment of his party as much as the opposition.

Yeah but that was mostly Rudd the person and his lack of institutional/factional connections and support. Beyond the usual variation within a broad church, the only ideological difference between Rudd and the rest of the party was his attitude as to where institutional power should rest - i.e. with him.

By contrast, Corbyn and Sanders (and their supporters) present a substantive ideological and policy repudiation of the past few decades (at least) of their respective parties, and that is the root of the establishment pushback.

Trump is another interesting parallel - offering a similar repudiation, along with centralising power in his own person (one is a mask for the other really), but embraced by an establishment (both congressional and in the broader supporting structures) happy to compromise every principle they might once have held.

 

[BrunoV]

The election results are amazing.

Jo Swinson lost her seat. Sheer poetry that.

I'm not sure that the Tories are generally a good thing but Brexit has to happen for the good of the UK, Europe and the rest of the world. Get the UK out and then really drive the wedge in over time and hopefully the EU collapses (we'll see if Salvini and his people have the balls they appear to have).

Labor needs to find its soul as is the case for most parties of the left. It's dangerous for politics to have an opposition which is a soulless rabble.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

I expect the EU will outlast the UK.

 

[Doss]

What’s best for England and the UK are not the same thing.

 

[BrunoV]

Eh, the Scots basically tried to succeed when the UK entered the EU.

Now they don't want to leave.

Scottish politics is basically just UK Labor for Scotts.

The Northern Ireland question is a bit less clear. Johnson now has the mandate to tell the EU to go and fellate itself so the previous sell out is probably no longer on the table.

We'll see how it plays out.

 

[Lore]

How is a divided Europe a good thing, and where does that leave global policy when you have America, Russia and China running around as the major global powers?

The only good thing I can see globally is that Trump will be out of office on or before January 20, 2025.

 

[DapperJong]

Blighty wants her blue passport

Not quite sure what the unions for

 

[BrunoV]

How is a divided Europe a good thing, and where does that leave global policy when you have America, Russia and China running around as the major global powers?

The only good thing I can see globally is that Trump will be out of office on or before January 20, 2025.

Europe does not need to be in an anti-democratic union, no one ever actually voted for, sucking up countries that don't meet financial criteria for admission for political purposes, and then imposing austerity on the people of those countries, to be united.

It's really just a talking point that the EU is united Europe and that the UK is now anti-Europe. The eastern European member countries don't agree with anything the EU does. The Italians are feeling the pinch of recession for every year it has had the Euro. Neither Greece nor Italy ever qualified for admission. The yellow vests in France have had massive protests each week for over a year now because the working class in France bears the brunt of EU policy. These protests were the size of HK initially and still get 100s of 1000s of people out on the streets weekly but it's not covered.

If anything the EU flames tensions between countries with different cultures and politics who cannot bear the "one size fits all" approach.

I often see the argument that "Europe will be at war as it was in the first half of the 20th century if we don't have the EU". It's drivel. The Nazi's rose to power in an environment created by the imposition of what was essentially ultra-austerity, crushing the Germans as punishment for WWI. The current climate under the EU has always looked more like Europe post WWI than not to me.

Its not fair to blame ordinary people for fighting wars which are created by the whims of their monarchs (as far as I'm aware it's not clear why WWI was fought, not really, the assassination of Ferdinand was an excuse).

It doesn't have to be economics either.

People tend not to want migration policy dictated to them by technocrats who oversee economies in which birth rates fall below replacement who then import immigrants for votes/a workforce from incompatible cultures. Have a look at what is really happening in Sweden. Start with Malmo.

The threat of Russia is a bad joke. A lot of Europe relies on Russia for gas so you get the two-faced German approach of going so far as to deny the US will to build Nordstream 2, so that Russia can supply Germany with gas, while at the same time there is discussion about extending NATO to guard against the Russian "threat".

Now that all of the dirt is being dug out of Ukraine the EU has turned its back on the Ukraine where they helped to overthrow a democratically elected president Yanokovic for the corrupt oligarch Poroshenko (with the backing of actual neo-Nazis/fascists - look up the Banderites and the Azov batallion).

If they were really concerned Russian involvement in Ukraine was more than protecting ethnic Russians in the east from the Ukranian fascists the EU would probably be trying to prop up Ukraine.

It's exactly the same story in Crimea where all independent bodies who reviewed the vote recognise the in excess of 90% support for becoming part of Russia as a legitimate vote.

 

[jmoo wan]

Europe does not need to be in an anti-democratic union, no one ever actually voted for, sucking up countries that don't meet financial criteria for admission for political purposes, and then imposing austerity on the people of those countries, to be united.

It's really just a talking point that the EU is united Europe and that the UK is now anti-Europe. The eastern European member countries don't agree with anything the EU does. The Italians are feeling the pinch of recession for every year it has had the Euro. Neither Greece nor Italy ever qualified for admission. The yellow vests in France have had massive protests each week for over a year now because the working class in France bears the brunt of EU policy. These protests were the size of HK initially and still get 100s of 1000s of people out on the streets weekly but it's not covered.

If anything the EU flames tensions between countries with different cultures and politics who cannot bear the "one size fits all" approach.

I often see the argument that "Europe will be at war as it was in the first half of the 20th century if we don't have the EU". It's drivel. The Nazi's rose to power in an environment created by the imposition of what was essentially ultra-austerity, crushing the Germans as punishment for WWI. The current climate undet the EU has always looked more like Europe post WWI than not.

Its not fair to blame ordinary people for fighting ward which are created by the whims of their monarchs (as far as I'm aware it's still not really clear why WWI was fought, not really, the assassination of Ferdinand was an excuse).

It doesn't have to be economics either.

People tend not to want migration policy dictated to them by technocrats who oversee economies in which birth rates fall below replacement who then import immigrants for votes/a workforce from incompatible cultures. Have a look at what is really happening in Sweden. Start with Malmo.

The threat of Russia is a bad joke. A lot of Europe relies on Russia for gas so you get the two-faced German approach of going so far as to deny the US will to build Nordstream 2, so that Russia can supply Germany with gas, while at the same time there is discussion about extending NATO to guard against the Russian "threat".

Now that all of the dirt is being dug out of Ukraine the EU has now turned its back on the Ukraine where they helped to overthrow a democratically elected president Yanokovic for the corrupt oligarch Porishenko (with the backing of actual neo-Nazis/fascists - look up the Banderites and the Azov batallion).

If they were really concerned Russian involvement in Ukraine was more than protecting ethnic Russians in the east from the Ukranian fascists the EU would probably be trying to prop up Ukraine.

It's exactly the same story in Crimea where all indepent bodies who reviewed the vote recognise the in excess of 90% support for becoming part of Russia as a legitimate vote.

so basically the plot of the star wars prequel films then?

 

[DapperJong]

so basically the plot of the star wars prequel films then?

 

[jmoo wan]

View attachment 793710

Darth Binks.

 

[DERO]

Darth Binks.

Kill it with fire.

 

[Lore]

Europe does not need to be in an anti-democratic union, no one ever actually voted for, sucking up countries that don't meet financial criteria for admission for political purposes, and then imposing austerity on the people of those countries, to be united.

It's really just a talking point that the EU is united Europe and that the UK is now anti-Europe. The eastern European member countries don't agree with anything the EU does. The Italians are feeling the pinch of recession for every year it has had the Euro. Neither Greece nor Italy ever qualified for admission. The yellow vests in France have had massive protests each week for over a year now because the working class in France bears the brunt of EU policy. These protests were the size of HK initially and still get 100s of 1000s of people out on the streets weekly but it's not covered.

If anything the EU flames tensions between countries with different cultures and politics who cannot bear the "one size fits all" approach.

I often see the argument that "Europe will be at war as it was in the first half of the 20th century if we don't have the EU". It's drivel. The Nazi's rose to power in an environment created by the imposition of what was essentially ultra-austerity, crushing the Germans as punishment for WWI. The current climate under the EU has always looked more like Europe post WWI than not to me.

Its not fair to blame ordinary people for fighting wars which are created by the whims of their monarchs (as far as I'm aware it's not clear why WWI was fought, not really, the assassination of Ferdinand was an excuse).

It doesn't have to be economics either.

People tend not to want migration policy dictated to them by technocrats who oversee economies in which birth rates fall below replacement who then import immigrants for votes/a workforce from incompatible cultures. Have a look at what is really happening in Sweden. Start with Malmo.

The threat of Russia is a bad joke. A lot of Europe relies on Russia for gas so you get the two-faced German approach of going so far as to deny the US will to build Nordstream 2, so that Russia can supply Germany with gas, while at the same time there is discussion about extending NATO to guard against the Russian "threat".

Now that all of the dirt is being dug out of Ukraine the EU has turned its back on the Ukraine where they helped to overthrow a democratically elected president Yanokovic for the corrupt oligarch Poroshenko (with the backing of actual neo-Nazis/fascists - look up the Banderites and the Azov batallion).

If they were really concerned Russian involvement in Ukraine was more than protecting ethnic Russians in the east from the Ukranian fascists the EU would probably be trying to prop up Ukraine.

It's exactly the same story in Crimea where all independent bodies who reviewed the vote recognise the in excess of 90% support for becoming part of Russia as a legitimate vote.

Thanks for the in-depth reply.

As far as what started WWI, I'm not a history major but from what I understand it seems to boil down to a bunch of conflicting alliances that ended up dragging more militarised countries into a war on behalf of their less powerful allies. The assassination of FF seems to have been the spark that lit the powder keg, but they were already in an arms race and pretty suspicious of one another, so war seemed inevitable anyway.

The assassination itself probably wouldn't have happened if Austro-Hungary hadn't annexed Bosnia, and if Franz Ferdinand's marriage hadn't been morganatic, which is apparently what led him to go there and inspect the troops in the first place (she couldn't accompany him on any official engagements unless it was in a military capacity).

 

[Doss]

WWI was an imperialist dick measuring contest supplemented by Britain's unwillingness to have Germany even in the same stratosphere for naval strength, and German expansionism. There was nothing ideologically noble about it.

 

[The Speaker]

Britain has always been at their best when they hold the continent at arm's length. Wilhelm II used that knowledge to assume that they wouldn't get involved in the next inevitable French-German war. Alas.

 

[TheBrightSide]

I came across this page on the official Government Treasury site, and thought it sounded interesting.
Is anyone familiar with it?
It comes with a 109 page pdf attachment. I started reading it, but these type of documents seriously put me to sleep.
I got a few pages in and started dozing off, lol.

The link:

Australian Government guarantee of debt securities | Treasury.gov.au

Attached are documents concerning the registration with the US Securities and Exchange Commission of the Australian Government as guarantor of debt securities of Australian authorised deposit taking institutions.

treasury.gov.au

 

[GUMBLETRON]

There are a bunch of nutters on Facebook who are convinced the Australian government is an illegal construct so they don't have to pay their council rates or parking fines. That SEC registration thing is one of the alleged truths underpinning it all, along with the failed local government referendum, the governor general's seal changing and a few other bits and pieces - all of which are entirely explainable for non-nuffs. Every so often someone is inspired to take said argument to court, where they lose and lose badly.

In short, it's bunkum.

The group:

Understand the Constitution of the Australian Commonwealth

This group, is about people who wish to understand and comprehend our lawful Australian constitution 1901 and your rights under that and the blatant take over of our country by the UN and its...

www.facebook.com

The ringleader having his day in court:

Man who doesn't believe in local governments and owes $300,000 in rates has property seized

Not even Magna Carta can save the land of a WA man who owes $300,000 in rates after refusing to pay the council for more than a decade.

www.abc.net.au

Some context:

A look at the anti-tax sovereign citizen movement

WA man Wayne Glew made headlines this week arguing rates are illegal, drawing attention to the confusing world of self-styled ‘sovereign citizens’.

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[Loonerty]

Wayne Glew

 

[TheBrightSide]

There are a bunch of nutters on Facebook who are convinced the Australian government is an illegal construct so they don't have to pay their council rates or parking fines. That SEC registration thing is one of the alleged truths underpinning it all, along with the failed local government referendum, the governor general's seal changing and a few other bits and pieces - all of which are entirely explainable for non-nuffs. Every so often someone is inspired to take said argument to court, where they lose and lose badly.

In short, it's bunkum.

The group:

Understand the Constitution of the Australian Commonwealth

This group, is about people who wish to understand and comprehend our lawful Australian constitution 1901 and your rights under that and the blatant take over of our country by the UN and its...

www.facebook.com

The ringleader having his day in court:

Man who doesn't believe in local governments and owes $300,000 in rates has property seized

Not even Magna Carta can save the land of a WA man who owes $300,000 in rates after refusing to pay the council for more than a decade.

www.abc.net.au

Some context:

A look at the anti-tax sovereign citizen movement

WA man Wayne Glew made headlines this week arguing rates are illegal, drawing attention to the confusing world of self-styled ‘sovereign citizens’.

thenewdaily.com.au

“..entirely explainable for non-nuffs”. Love it!

For the record, I’m a tin foil hat wearing lunatic who probably agrees with those Facebook nutters, lol.

 

[DERO]

“..entirely explainable for non-nuffs”. Love it!

For the record, I’m a tin foil hat wearing lunatic who probably agrees with those Facebook nutters, lol.

I wouldn't mind someone explaining it to be honest. At least keep the so-called non-nuffies honest!

 

[DapperJong]

Wayne Glew is amazing.

 

[DERO]

Wayne Glew is amazing.

Good on you for knowing who the **** Wayne Glew is.

 

[DapperJong]

Good on you for knowing who the fu** Wayne Glew is.