The Greatest Finals Player Ever

[PenfoldsFan]

His finals record would have been diminished if they gave it to Houli. Just like the AAs and B&Fs.

I dont think so.

I consider Dusty to be the best finals player in my time watching the game despite believing Bachar deserved the 2017 NS.

I think its more a case of you need people to believe Bachar wasnt better to keep Dustys finals record #1.
Or you'd just accept differing opinion.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I dont think so.

I consider Dusty to be the best finals player in my time watching the game despite believing Bachar deserved the 2017 NS.

I think its more a case of you need people to believe Bachar wasnt better to keep Dustys finals record #1.
Or you'd just accept differing opinion.

So if Dusty played the exact same and never got a norm smith or finals MVP (let’s say second place for all of them)

Would you still think people would say he’s the best finals player ever or even close to it? I don’t think so, not even close. They’d probably call it the Dustywobbles and take the micky out of him for finishing 2nd so many times.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

So if Dusty played the exact same and never got a norm smith or finals MVP (let’s say second place for all of them)

Would you still think people would say he’s the best finals player ever or even close to it? I don’t think so, not even close. They’d probably call it the Dustywobbles and take the micky out of him for finishing 2nd so many times.

So, the opinions of “judges” like Luke Darcy are more important to you than how well a player actually plays?

 

[Cleansweep17]

So, the opinions of “judges” like Luke Darcy are more important to you than how well a player actually plays?

Judges like Judd for the 2017 GF seem pretty reasonable to me.

Or should I take your opinion Freddy?

Kane Cornes is on the AA selection panel. Let’s just chuck all the AA jackets in the bin now, yeah?

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Judges like Judd for the 2017 GF seem pretty reasonable to me.

Or should I take your opinion Freddy?

Kane Cornes is on the AA selection panel. Let’s just chuck all the AA jackets in the bin now, yeah?

You said if he played the exact same game but the “judges” chose someone else, you’d think less of him.

I get it. It’s awards, awards, awards that’s important to you.

Good for you.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You said if he played the exact same game but the “judges” chose someone else, you’d think less of him.

I get it. It’s awards, awards, awards that’s important to you.

Good for you.

You do it with AAs and B&Fs.

And that’s ok. Everybody cares about awards in the end.

Can I tell the difference between the 1955 and 1974 Brownlow? No.

Do I think they were the best player of the year. Yeah.

Do most people dig deeper than that? No.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

You do it with AAs and B&Fs.

And that’s ok. Everybody cares about awards in the end.

Can I tell the difference between the 1955 and 1974 Brownlow? No.

Do I think they were the best player of the year. Yeah.

Do most people dig deeper than that? No.

Do I do it with AAs and BnFs?

Regardless, we’re straying into off thread territory here. Best move to the Richmond hate Geelong thread.

 

[Back One Out]

Now that Richmond have returned to their familiar place in the AFL pecking order - irrelevant laughing stocks, miles away from premiership contention, and their fans reverting back to bragging about their MCG attendance figures - I suppose we'll have to get used to the never-ending, misty-eyed jizzfest over yesterday's hero, the great Dusty Martin.

Although I must admit, I don't bother reading any of numerous threads which get taken over by Dusty fanboys vs Dusty haters

They are so boring.

 

[Xtreme]

Until someone wins 4 Norm Smith medals, Dusty is the GOAT finals player. Someone call He-Man as Dusty is now the Master of the Universe.

 

[Rotayjay]

It's hard to go past Martin with three Norm Smiths and three Gary Ayres. Nobody else has been awarded best afield in three grand finals. They were the three most important games in his three hundred-game career, and he nailed them.

Statistically, most AFL-listed players never 'make it' and never play a final, and only a tiny percentage get to play in a granny. If you get that privilege and play well enough to win a Norm Smith, you'd be pretty happy with yourself. To do that in every grand final you've played, and do it three times, is something else.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Dusty, Lethal, Carey, Selwood, Ablett Snr and Jnr, Voss, Aker, Hodge, Judd, Josh P Kennedy, Goodes etc.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Judges like Judd for the 2017 GF seem pretty reasonable to me.

Or should I take your opinion Freddy?

Kane Cornes is on the AA selection panel. Let’s just chuck all the AA jackets in the bin now, yeah?

You rate Judd over Dimma?

What about Mclure or Daisy, you rate them over Dimma?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Now that Richmond have returned to their familiar place in the AFL pecking order - irrelevant laughing stocks, miles away from premiership contention, and their fans reverting back to bragging about their MCG attendance figures - I suppose we'll have to get used to the never-ending, misty-eyed jizzfest over yesterday's hero, the great Dusty Martin.

Although I must admit, I don't bother reading any of numerous threads which get taken over by Dusty fanboys vs Dusty haters

They are so boring.

Don't worry Back One, you were only one of legions who were captivated by those threads but had to publicly pretend you were indifferent.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You rate Judd over Dimma?

What about Mclure or Daisy, you rate them over Dimma?

I rate a whole panels opinion over Dimma.

Richmond were notoriously “inclusive” under Dimma and gave votes to players for “effort” and “playing their role” rather than how good they played.

Our B&Fs results since 2017 have shown that.

 

[Lingsface]

Dangerfield has had some huge finals games

Adelaide-
2012
PF - 28 possesions 9 clearances
2015
SF- 29 pos 1 goal 10 clearances

Geelong
2016
QF- 35 pos 7 clearances
PF- 39 pos 1 goal 9 clearances

2017
QF- 31 poss 1 goal
SF- 26 poss 4 goals
PF- 24 pos 2 goals 9 tackles

2019
QF- 32 poss 1 goal 7 clearances
PF- 27 poss 1 goal 7 clearances

2020
SF- 19 possesions 4 goals

2021
PF- 30 possesions 10 clearances

2022
PF- 28 possesions 2 goals 8 clearances
GF- 27 possesions 19 contested 9 clearances (#2 norm smith voting)

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I rate a whole panels opinion over Dimma.

Richmond were notoriously “inclusive” under Dimma and gave votes to players for “effort” and “playing their role” rather than how good they played.

Our B&Fs results since 2017 have shown that.

Pyke would have given some of those coaches votes too yeah?
5 each?
I wonder how they came to the same conclusion.
Is Pyke part of the Richmond notorious 'inclusiveness' Too?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Pyke would have given some of those coaches votes too yeah?
5 each?
I wonder how they came to the same conclusion.
Is Pyke part of the Richmond notorious 'inclusiveness' Too?

It doesn’t matter what Pyke did.

Some coaches in the league could’ve given Houli 4 and Dusty 5 and made it a tie.

Coaches aren’t some hive mind.

A panel of people voting is generally better than 1-2 people.

I mean Judd was on it, you reckon he’s a dumbo or something?

By the way most people don’t remember but Carey said (just before the game finished) that Dusty will win the 2017 NS. So Judd and Carey v Hardwick and Pyke. I know who I’m backing.

Fact is, data says Dusty was better, the general public think Dusty was better and most importantly the NS panel thought Dusty was better. That’s what will be remembered.

I think it’s just a shame how people have yet again descended into Dusty hating/discrediting. Like we get it.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

It doesn’t matter what Pyke did.

Some coaches in the league could’ve given Houli 4 and Dusty 5 and made it a tie.

Coaches aren’t some hive mind.

A panel of people voting is generally better than 1-2 people.

I mean Judd was on it, you reckon he’s a dumbo or something?

By the way most people don’t remember but Carey said (just before the game finished) that Dusty will win the 2017 NS. So Judd and Carey v Hardwick and Pyke. I know who I’m backing.

Fact is, data says Dusty was better, the general public think Dusty was better and most importantly the NS panel thought Dusty was better. That’s what will be remembered.

I think it’s just a shame how people have yet again descended into Dusty hating/discrediting. Like we get it.

Dusty hating, dont put words in my mouth.
I have said twice that I rate Dusty as the greatest finals player in my time watching the game, not sure how that equates to hating the bloke but you do you.
I just felt at the time, and still do, that Bachar played a more influential part in that GF and wont be swayed.

3x AFL Premiership Coach and 2x Premiership player Dimma and 2x Premiership player Pyke agreed.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Dusty hating, dont put words in my mouth.
I have said twice that I rate Dusty as the greatest finals player in my time watching the game, not sure how that equates to hating the bloke but you do you.
I just felt at the time, and still do, that Bachar played a more influential part in that GF and wont be swayed.

3x AFL Premiership Coach and 2x Premiership player Dimma and 2x Premiership player Pyke agreed.

Nah just meant in general.

Fair enough of course you are entitled to your view.

 

[PizzaPie]

Without defining a criteria for 'greatest finals player', you could always look to the dictionary because words, like 'greatest', have meaning.
Dusty's achievements more objectively, and succinctly, support him as the 'greatest' in my opinion, at least in lieu of a more specific criteria that everyone's agreed to.

He's the only player people consistently nominate as the 'greatest' (etc.) in finals without needing to submit a mini-essay filled with subjective opinions and importance of any included statistics etc. And any argument that dismisses Norm Smith medals as mere 'awards' as if they're Maccas vouchers or a winning raffle ticket or something, and not 'achievements', is floored from the start.

Simple enough for me, if I had to name someone / pick the most convincing arguments I've seen, anyways.

If there was a distinction between Grand Finals vs. overall finals performances with criteria around how much extra weight (if any) is applied to the different stages of finals it could produce different results.

 

[PizzaPie]

There's a reason why the Gary Ayres award is called the Gary Ayres award.

And there's a reason why it isn't named after anyone yet to play a game at the time (or even be born in the case of most current players).

 

[Roddy]

And there's a reason why it isn't named after anyone yet to play a game at the time (or even be born in the case of most current players).

You realise this is the same as any award, yeah? Brownlow, Coleman, Norm Smith, any number of B&Fs etc etc. And you realise the Ayres award was introduced less than ten years ago, yeah?

Was this supposed to be an argument’ against it? Because it’s one of the weakest I’ve ever seen…

 

[sobrave]

Dangerfield has had some huge finals games

Adelaide-
2012
PF - 28 possesions 9 clearances
2015
SF- 29 pos 1 goal 10 clearances

Geelong
2016
QF- 35 pos 7 clearances
PF- 39 pos 1 goal 9 clearances

2017
QF- 31 poss 1 goal
SF- 26 poss 4 goals
PF- 24 pos 2 goals 9 tackles

2019
QF- 32 poss 1 goal 7 clearances
PF- 27 poss 1 goal 7 clearances

2020
SF- 19 possesions 4 goals

2021
PF- 30 possesions 10 clearances

2022
PF- 28 possesions 2 goals 8 clearances
GF- 27 possesions 19 contested 9 clearances (#2 norm smith voting)

You mean Dusty's bitch Dangerfield?

 

[PizzaPie]

You realise this is the same as any award, yeah? Brownlow, Coleman, Norm Smith, any number of B&Fs etc etc. And you realise the Ayres award was introduced less than ten years ago, yeah?

Was this supposed to be an argument’ against it? Because it’s one of the weakest I’ve ever seen…

Not a lot of thought went into it, the gay winky face might have given away that I wasn't submitting a formal response in an attempt to be the first person in history to win an internet argument.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Leigh Tudor