Current The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland

Remove this Banner Ad

BFew said:
It's a bit concerning to hear at the inquiry that Cathie Allen sometimes acted in the position of her boss (Executive Director) and was in charge of the whole Lab Facility.
Click to expand...
Sounds a little bit Scomo... very concerning.
 
BFew said:
In Hedley's latest podcast on this inquiry, he thinks Cathie Allen probably had and still has a personality disorder (but that he was not qualified to comment on this).

Even though I'm also not qualified to comment on this, I tend to agree with his diagnosis opinion, on the evidence so far.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree as well.... my thoughts are also agreeable with the lady after that it was all about control and power. The current structure and then rejection of revised structure shows complete micromanagement to the detriment of the lab and the employees.
 
FTY1 said:
Troy O'Malley who was Cathie Allen's partner
Click to expand...
At the 1:31:50 mark of the "Disney Villain" podcast Ep6, Troy O'Malley is described by Hedley Thomas as
"The Elephant in the room"
"The invisible man"

HEDLEY THOMAS
"Listeners haven't heard of Troy O'Malley, because he hasn't been called at this inquiry.
Although he has been mentioned many times in evidence.
Troy O'Malley effectively designed and developed the Forensic Register.
This very powerful and sophisticated piece of software, that has become essential to the management of DNA in the Lab.

Troy O'Malley has also been Cathie Allen's long-time partner.
They've been very close for many years.

A number of Scientists have disclosed to us, that in there view, and through no fault or doing of Troy O'Malley, the relationship has affected the way Cathie Allen did her job, and the way other people managed Cathie Allen.

This is awkward.
Human relationships are tricky.
Especially in the workplace.
And Cathie Allen shouldn't be judged nor should Troy O'Malley because they were involved together.

But the perception of the Scientists has been, that the importance of the forensic register, and by extension, the importance of Troy O'Malley,
were such that Cathie Allen became almost a protected species.

We've seen time and again how Scientists didn't want to challenge her, or simply failed to challenge her.
And Police too didn't do that.
Is that because of the connection of Troy O'Malley and the Forensic Register?

FEMALE PRESENTER
"Hedley, everyone in the Police and Scientific community in Queensland knows about this.
This is not a secret that we're revealing here today.

It's interesting that it hasn't been brought up at the inquiry.
And if that's because of some caution about appearing to be sexist, or judging a women based on her relationship, I don't quite get that.
Because when you have a long term relationship with someone, you become part of the package deal.

If everyone knows that you're connected to a Senior Police Officer, and certainly someone with an asset under their control like the Forensic Register, that is a relevant part of your public persona.

It's worth noting that Troy, who was a senior cop now works for the firm BDNA.
They purchased from Police, the Forensic Register, the piece of software he helped develop.
And that's now used in Labs and by Police across Australia.

Here's how it unfolded in the inquiry ..."
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

BFew said:
In Hedley's latest podcast on this inquiry, he thinks Cathie Allen probably had and still has a personality disorder (but that he was not qualified to comment on this).

Even though I'm also not qualified to comment on this, I tend to agree with his diagnosis opinion, on the evidence so far.
Click to expand...
Whether it's true or not, I think that Hedley is out of line saying this but I think that is part of his journalistic style. Certainly makes his podcasts more emotive.
 
www.abc.net.au

Police blood sample process at time of Shandee Blackburn's death 'may not be best practice', inquiry hears

An inquiry into Queensland's state-run forensics lab is told a process used to collect blood samples at the time of Shandee Blackburn's death "may not be best practice", and that staff were under "significant pressure" around the speed of testing.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Double posting this. As well as the lab being under pressure for quick results. The Inquiry seems to put possible blame on the police way of collecting blood samples using a wetting agent of 70% alcohol. The may be partially to blame for Shandee's lack of DNA. The samples may have been unreliable before reaching the lab.

Inquiry told process to collect blood samples 'may not be best practice'​

Counsel Assisting Laura Reece today told the inquiry that at the time of Ms Blackburn's death, police used a wetting agent that contained 70 per cent alcohol to collect blood samples, which "may not be best practice".

Queensland's damning DNA inquiry resumes​

After revelations of a so-called "bin-gate", to allegations of a toxic work environment, the inquiry into Queensland's forensic DNA lab kicks=off again today. Here's what we've heard so far.

Read more
Walter Sofronoff KC, who is conducting the inquiry, responded that it could be concluded that swabs submitted by police could have been unreliable before arriving at the lab.

"It's not possible to conclude that the offender's DNA was not on Ms Blackburn's body or clothing, and it's not possible to conclude that Ms Blackburn's DNA was not present in the car of the person who had been suspected of the killing," he said.

"It was not correct to say that there was no DNA, it would have been correct to say that having regard to the methods employed, it was not possible to say whether or not there was any DNA in relevant places."
 
FTY1 said:
at the time of Ms Blackburn's death, police used a wetting agent that contained 70 per cent alcohol to collect blood samples, which "may not be best practice".
Click to expand...
'The inquiry heard a 70 per cent ethanol “wetting” agent was applied during the lifting of samples, when previously only pure water had been used. The inquiry was told this was not usual practice.'

So why at this point in time, or just on this case, did QLD Police use a 70% ethanol wetting agent?

Sounds like a brilliant way to destroy evidence.

Has this revelation today possibly revealed a method by which criminal evidence might have been deliberately destroyed in QLD criminal cases?
 
BFew said:
'The inquiry heard a 70 per cent ethanol “wetting” agent was applied during the lifting of samples, when previously only pure water had been used. The inquiry was told this was not usual practice.'

So why at this point in time, or just on this case, did QLD Police use a 70% ethanol wetting agent?

Sounds like a brilliant way to destroy evidence.

Has this revelation today possibly revealed a method by which criminal evidence might have been deliberately destroyed in QLD criminal cases?
Click to expand...

The Australian is now reporting that the QLD Forensic DNA lab advised QLD Police to use the 70% ethanol wetting agent.

Did the lab possibly do this in an attempt to reduce their workload?

'Lab’s DNA failures so great even the dishwasher’s in the frame'​

'9 MINUTES AGO NOVEMBER 24, 2022'

'One of the other factors potentially causing samples to be ruined was a change in police crime scene swabbing processes. Police replaced water on swabs with an ethanol solution on the lab’s advice, but the new system may have reduced recovery of DNA from samples, including pools of blood.'
 
BFew said:
Today we might get to find out why the dishwasher was left unlocked.
Click to expand...
We never did find that out.

However this evening the dishwasher makes a guest appearance.

The dishwasher is in big trouble.

So annoying when detergent residue gets on your wine glasses during the dishwashing process.

Maybe not using home brand dishwashing tablets might have helped.

Surely the items being washed should have been regularly tested for detergent deposits?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/dna-of-shandee-blackburns-killer-could-have-been-on-her-body-and-missed/news-story/29804edfad2fea2007b3b56e4bae00a8

'Lab’s DNA failures so great even the dishwasher’s in the frame'​

'9 MINUTES AGO NOVEMBER 24, 2022'

'Another issue the experts examined was a faulty dishwasher that lab managers feared could be damaging samples during the period when Blackburn’s samples were being processed in 2013.

The laboratory has suggested the dishwasher could have been responsible for the contamination of a critical enzyme, Proteinase-K, used in DNA analysis. A flaw with the dishwasher appeared to be depositing caustic detergent residue on a glass measuring cylinder used to prepare the enzyme for DNA extraction.

Dr Wright told the inquiry in a report: “The impact the faulty dishwasher and defective Proteinase-K would have on crime scene evidence is catastrophic.”

She told The Australian: “Due to a lack of an appropriate investigation by the lab, it’s unclear if this was the cause.”'
 
I really would have thought that a forensic laboratory would autoclave their glassware…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
geeeyejo said:
I really would have thought that a forensic laboratory would autoclave their glassware…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
Autoclaving is most used for sterilisation* and does not fully destroy DNA. However it would denature proteinase K.
DNA analysis is so sensitive that any breakdown in procedure can be catastrophic. As I said in my earlier posts, this is why to you need to run regular control samples to look for any issues.

* For non science people, things like cells, bacterial, enzymes etc to make it safe for disposal or in the case of glassware to reuse. A cleaning step is often done before autoclaving is done to get the glassware as sterile as possible for further experiments.
 
BFew said:
The Australian is now reporting that the QLD Forensic DNA lab advised QLD Police to use the 70% ethanol wetting agent.

Did the lab possibly do this in an attempt to reduce their workload?

'Lab’s DNA failures so great even the dishwasher’s in the frame'​

'9 MINUTES AGO NOVEMBER 24, 2022'

'One of the other factors potentially causing samples to be ruined was a change in police crime scene swabbing processes. Police replaced water on swabs with an ethanol solution on the lab’s advice, but the new system may have reduced recovery of DNA from samples, including pools of blood.'
Click to expand...
More on this today at the last day of the inquiry.

Need to wait for the full transcript or audio replay to make sense of what came out today on this.
From what's been reported yesterday and today, it looks like a lot of finger pointing.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news...0/news-story/fc8aac973581835da8296639bbebad7d

Queensland police warned of flaws in DNA collection method in 2010​

Queensland Police were warned a new method under consideration to collect DNA at crime scenes was potentially flawed as early as 2010 - but it was used for more than a decade anyway.

Stephanie Bennett

November 25, 2022 - 12:48PM

Queensland Police were warned a new method under consideration to collect DNA at crime scenes was potentially flawed – but it was put into practice for more than a decade anyway.

The startling revelation was revealed on the final day of the commission of inquiry into forensic DNA testing in the state.

Emails presented to the inquiry showed a report in 2010 provided to QPS showed the method of using a 70 per cent ethanol solution as a “wetting” agent to collect dried stains – such as blood – could yield poorer DNA results.

The advice also said this variance could be of crucial importance with regard to small stains, or those which appear on porous surfaces such as concrete or plasterboard.

Despite the advice, QPS adopted the method to combat issues with mould appearing on swabs which were not drying quickly when just pure water was used on swabbing agents.

Ethanol was chosen because swabs would dry up to six times faster.

The use of such a wetting agent was raised in Thursday’s public hearing at the inquiry, when the court heard it had been used when forensic officers attempted to collect DNA from a dried blood stain on a concrete gutter near where Mackay woman Shandee Blackburn was murdered in 2013.

Shandee Blackburn’s murder has never been solved.
Despite the size of the stain, no DNA was able to be extracted. Her murder has never been solved.

Giving evidence, forensic biologist Linzi Wilson-Wilde said it was crucial to verify the effectiveness of sampling products before implementing them in practice, to limit unforeseen impacts on the collection of DNA.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #90
JWS2019 said:
Kurve not sure if you already have one, or if we’d be able to source affected cases until released, but is it worth having a QLD unsolved thread during that period to review cases ?

Edit to add: we could review coroners reports from those periods.
Click to expand...

Here's a thread, it might need tinkering with a bit but it's a start. We can fine tune it as we go along.

www.bigfooty.com

Unsolved - Criminal Cases Under Review after Qld DNA Lab Inquiry

The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
BFew said:
I nearly fell out of bed this morning when I heard the Blowtorch podcast presenter say that Lara Keller had recently been offered and verbally accepted a new contract as head of QLD Health's Forensic and Scientific Services.

Her Linkedin has her as "Acting" in that job from Oct 2021 - present.

If it's a long term contract, with the Inquiry already reported to be likely recommending that QLD Health Forensic Services should be removed from under the responsibility of QLD Health, Keller could be looking a nice payout if they abolish her position soon. Although, she might have her contract quickly terminated without notice/cause anyway later this year or early next year as a consequence of the current Inquiry's findings, and still get a big payout.

She might have just been on a 1 year contract, that expires/expired Oct 2022), and just been offered a 6-12 months extension of that one, pending the result of the current inquiry.

After her performance this week at the inquiry and what it revealed about her actions and inactions, I'd be disgusted if Keller is still working anywhere for QLD Health, QLD Government, or any Australian Public Services in the very near future.

omny.fm

Shandee's Legacy Episode 5: Blowtorch - Shandee's Story

The big guns from the DNA lab - Lara Keller, Justin Howes and Cathie Allen - are rolled into the formal inquiry and subjected to withering questioning by a lawyer on top of his game over alleged cover-up, lies to police, and scientific fraud. The three insist they've been honest at all times...
omny.fm omny.fm
Click to expand...
Clearly Keller is out of her depth as an Executive Director... incapable of understanding any significant issue (clearly not smart) & hence never dealing with issues. One of those do nothing Directors who hope the problem will disappear if ignored.

So what do they do when she's found to be completely incompetent in her role they give her a new contract.

Unbelievable! They may as well keep the role vacant as would make no difference.

It's these types of beuracrats that give the public service a bad name.
 
BFew said:
In Hedley's latest podcast on this inquiry, he thinks Cathie Allen probably had and still has a personality disorder (but that he was not qualified to comment on this).

Even though I'm also not qualified to comment on this, I tend to agree with his diagnosis opinion, on the evidence so far.
Click to expand...
Clearly she lacks empathy & not cut out to be a manager. Ironic she started crying when realising she would lose her job... yet had no care for others she made life miserable.

Happy to blame everyone else & take no responsibility even though she is charge & created the poor culture.

She lost sight of the main purpose of the laboratory & more concerned with covering up rather than addressing issues... which unfortunately is common place & needed a brave whistle-blower to fix it.
 
Last edited:
Happy reading
All 520 pages.

The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland

www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au
'On 13 December 2022, the final report was provided to the Commissioner for Police, Premier and Minister for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the Minister for Health and Ambulance Services, and the Attorney-General and Minister for Women and Minister for the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence.'

'Final Report Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA testing in Queensland Walter Sofronoff KC 13 December 2022'
 
BFew said:
Happy reading
All 520 pages.

The Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA Testing in Queensland

www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au www.dnainquiry.qld.gov.au
'On 13 December 2022, the final report was provided to the Commissioner for Police, Premier and Minister for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the Minister for Health and Ambulance Services, and the Attorney-General and Minister for Women and Minister for the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence.'

'Final Report Commission of Inquiry into Forensic DNA testing in Queensland Walter Sofronoff KC 13 December 2022'
Click to expand...
The recommendations of the report are in Blue. The first one on page 47. Can do a search CTRL F and Rec 1. There are 123 recommendations. I am guessing most of the interesting things we have already heard.

www.9news.com.au

Damning report into failures of Queensland DNA testing lab handed down

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au

* 9 news summary of it.
 
In today's Australian Newspaper.

So are there still QPS COVID policies that limit the collection of DNA samples?
And what about all other States/Territories?
Did/do they all have similar Policies, some of which could still be in place, during or even in-between the multiple COVID waves?

Am not expecting answers to the above.
Wouldn't want the crims and potential crims to get given too much info about when/how they might have evaded, or be able to avoid getting on the Australian National DNA Database.


Screenshot 2023-01-04 at 9.57.12 pm.png

Screenshot 2023-01-04 at 9.57.37 pm.png
 
If there was a Bigfooty award for Australian of the year, Kirsty Wright would probably walk away with that too.

story/8c99c5906ba18c80ef7701c11f3a6bcc

Honouring forensic scientist Kirsty Wright who bravely took a stand​

By JAMIE WALKER​

10:00PM JANUARY 20, 2023

'......Her courage and steely commitment to the truth are recognised in her naming as The Australian’s 2022 Australian of the Year.
.....
Dr Wright said the DNA debacle was the worst to rock Australia’s tight-knit forensic science community, surpassing the wrongful conviction of Lindy Chamberlain in 1982 for the murder at Uluru of her baby daughter, Azaria, on the basis of flawed scientific evidence.

As with the Chamberlain case, the abuses of process at the Queensland forensic lab should herald a shake-up in forensic testing centres nationwide, Dr Wright said.

The response from most of her peers and all the professional bodies? “Complete silence, deafening silence,” she said.

Not a peep from the National Association of Testing Authorities (NATA), which accredits forensics labs, nor an inquiring email or text from the Australian and New Zealand Forensic Science Society. Nothing from the National Institute of Forensic Science, either.

“They’re the three main forensic groups in Australia and not one of them has contacted me to ask either for clarification or more detail,” Dr Wright said. “What I was saying wasn’t just affecting Queensland; it was highlighting that there’s a critical gap in our national forensic science quality framework.

“The Queensland forensics lab was NATA-accredited. And if one lab is behaving like that, then it means other labs could also be behaving like that. So it’s extremely disappointing that there has been this radio silence.
......'

'She will be watching what happens next in Queensland to implement the Sofronoff findings and in other jurisdictions, too, because the DNA testing scandal must never, ever be repeated. The message to her critics and peers alike is she is not going away.

“I call bullshit,” Dr Wright said of the forensic science community’s so-far muted response.

“I’m hoping I don’t have another battle on my hands. But if that is genuinely their position – to basically ignore what happened and hope it doesn’t happen again – then I’m going to step into the batter’s box for another round.”

NATA, the Australian and New Zealand Forensic Science Society and National Institute of Forensic Science were contacted for comment.'
 
It wouldn't surprise me if what Hedley Thomas calls the worst forensics disaster in Australian history and one of the worst in the world, is maybe only because other forensic disasters have not been uncovered or made public yet. Hopefully none of the others (if any) are anywhere near as bad as in QLD.

The impact of what has gone down in Queensland, and what is still to come as a result of it, will probably have those overseeing other forensic disasters double down on making sure that their own versions of Kirsty Wright don't go public.

Although with Kirsty saying she's ready for a 'batter’s box for another round' in other jurisdictions, and almost wall to wall Labor Governments around Australia, with the power of the Conservative supporting media barons behind her, things could get very interesting.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/kristy-wright-heroine-in-white-coat-who-took-on-system-for-victims-of-serious-crime/news-story/55513ced9b43e9ab0a1a6fb4af80706d

Kristy Wright ‘heroine in white coat’ who took on system for victims of serious crime​

HEDLEY THOMAS​

UPDATED 10:59PM JANUARY 20, 2023, FIRST PUBLISHED AT 10:00PM JANUARY 20, 2023

' .... a lab run, as it was when Wright spoke up in The Australian, by a twisted cabal of control freaks.

For their deceit and their sabotage of DNA in the old lab, which worsened the pain of victims and perverted the criminal justice system, those who were in charge until being stood down in recent months are criminally culpable, in my opinion.'
....
'Remarkably, even the Crime and Corruption Commission had to be repeatedly prodded to take the matter seriously – after it initially disregarded or lost Wright’s prescient and comprehensive written complaint, which was alleging official corruption in the lab. A case study of case assessment ineptitude at the watchdog, for sure, but don’t hold your breath for agency self-examination.

When lying public servants and scientists in the lab with much to lose from her revelations being investigated tried to smear Wright as the Queensland government closed ranks to reject our calls for an inquiry, Wright never lost her nerve.'
...
'“We’ve seen the tip of the iceberg in Shandee’s case. This is the worst forensics disaster in Australian history and one of the worst in the world. It will be taught in universities and forensic biology classes.”'
 
Sounds like potential rape victims should avoid QLD until at least until after mid-2023.

‘Inferior’ rape kit replacement in Queensland still months away​

6:17PM MARCH 29, 2023

Queensland will continue to use “significantly inferior” equipment to other states when collecting vital DNA evidence from rape victims until the middle of the year.

Giving an update to parliament on the state‘s troubled DNA laboratory on Wednesday, Health Minister Yvette D’Ath said new rape kits had been trialled but would not be rolled out for another three months.

In Queensland, rape kits used in invasive and often retraumatising medical examinations have wooden stems that could break inside victims, risk DNA contamination and contain about half the number of swabs required.

In June 2022, a women’s safety task force headed by retired judge Margaret McMurdo recommended Queensland cease using “inferior kits” and procure those used in NSW and Victoria “as a matter of urgency”. “Not adhering to the highest standards with respect to DNA contamination risks inferior testing results or even miscarriages of justice,” the report found.

Retired Court of Appeal president Walter Sofronoff, who oversaw a royal commission-style inquiry into the DNA lab, made similar recommendations in December. Ms D’Ath said Forensic Services Queensland was undertaking procurement to source the kits after their trial in January. “It is anticipated the new kits will be implemented mid-year,” she said.

During his inquiry, Mr Sofronoff found scientists at the lab had made “untrue” statements to courts, prosecutors and victims of crime since early 2018.

In 1260 statements, scientists had advised courts there was insufficient or no DNA present to test forensic samples when there was.

Ms D’Ath said 564 false statements had been corrected so far and the government had committed $29.5m for further testing and analysis of samples.

“Regarding the testing of samples, the Australian Federal Police and Institute of Environmental Science and Research in New Zealand are currently performing testing for FSU in relation to bone analysis and Y-STR testing, and we continue to explore further arrangements with external providers,” she said.

Queensland has no Y-STR testing capability even though the method has been available for more than a decade and used in every other Australian lab for at least the past five years. The method has been “revolutionary” in sexual assault investigations. Three senior lab managers – Cathie Allen, Justin Howes and Paula Brisotto – all suspended in the wake of the inquiry remain stood down while their lawyers fight show cause notices issued by Queensland Health last year.
...'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kurve
Current The Colonial Parkway Serial Murders - * DNA identifies suspected killer
Replies
1
Views
603
Kurve
Kurve
Kurve
Unsolved Criminal Cases Under Review after Qld DNA Lab Inquiry
Replies
12
Views
1K
BFew
BFew
Kurve
Current Murder of Mother & Infant - Perth
Replies
1
Views
704
jason_recliner
J
N
Operation Jarrah - the murders of four missing men in South Australia
Replies
6
Views
906
nominal_port_supporter
N
Kurve
Unsolved Murder of ACDC Manager Crispin Dye 1993 * LGBTQ+ Hate Crime Inquiry Finds New Evidence
Replies
4
Views
820
Kurve
Kurve
Kurve
Unsolved Disappearance Murder of 14yo Marilyn Wallman of McKay - INQUEST
Replies
20
Views
799
Bunk Moreland
Bunk Moreland
latinoheat
Current Home invasion murder of Dr Michael Yung in Adelaide
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
Kurve
Kurve

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top