The Burden of the 3 Losses have Disappeared

[HTT]

Unrealistic as it may be, finishing top 4 would be far better than finishing 5-8. There's a little less pressure on a QF, since the lose is still alive. Would be a way to get the monkey off the back easier. Of course if we lost it and went straight into the prospect of losing 5 straight it would have the opposite effect.

 

[Helen Wheels]

Must be nice to work at the RFC with so many fans ready to invent excuses for repeated failure.

Fanbois don't count.

 

[johnno77]

Well good luck to us then. If Balme pulls his magic I'll nail him to a cross and start a holiday in his honor.

Is that you Daniel Andrews? Will it replace the Grand Final day holiday? Because that one is kind of shit.

 

[docko911]

We lost 13 because White did his hamstring a couple weeks before finals, Foley wasn't dropped and Conca did his hamstring in the first quarter. Our midfield got murdered in the second half of that game and we were a midfield rotation down. It made no sense to drop Foley for the final after he had played every game since round 7 of which we only lost 4 games.

That was the coaches fault.

14 was a disaster and ended as soon as our almighty lead kicked against the wind WTF.

15 was pressure city. We had stupidly let North play mind games with us in the final round of the season. I said back then we should have done the same thing as North and rested most of our players risking playing Adelaide at home. In the end we would have been well rested and played either Adelaide or North at the MCG and our key players would have been well rested. Instead our stability driven club let our players get beaten up by North so that they struggled in the second half of the final in the following week. North also bullied us in the midfield because we lacked balls and depth.

Coaches and Captain to blame for that one.

So all in all I would argue that there was any mental issue from the core group of players. Instead we have just been poorly coached, poorly captained, poor team selection and poor decisions by key staff in finals.

On a positive note, at the end of 15 we actually recruited a class player under Hardwick. Unfortunately he didn't play. At the end of 16 we recruited two more class players. If things go well we will have added 3 class players to our team from 2017, and lost a disinterested flogger and a previous champion struggling to stay on the ground.

I actually think we will win the flag next year.

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

I don't buy into this mental burden crap.

If you are a good enough player playing a good enough game plan then you will win. A good enough player is just that because he is not just talented but mentally tough. We haven't had enough players with the mental toughness to push themselves to the point of exhaustion and beyond in order to win.

Well, you speak some truth about mental toughness. However, mental toughness is not an unwavering, stable, internal trait. Mental toughness is a flexible trait. Confidence is a flexible trait. Mental health is a flexible trait. One of the key factors that affect mental toughness is precisely what I'm hinting at with this thread - the external pressure at the beginning of the 2016 season. A lot of our players that had previously demonstrated a degree of mental toughness were no longer at their peak in that area due to all these factors mounting.

Sure, if everyone on our list handled it like Trent did and played their hearts out, we would have turned the tide. Dimma expected that to happen ("we will still make the finals, once we're up and running we know we are good enough")

But we don't have a team full of Cotchins, or Hodges, or Selwoods... nobody does.

That's not the answer.

The answer lies within the culture of the club this pre-season enabling 30+ players to be at their absolute peak, mentally.

We are in a stronger position to achieve this type of culture heading into 2017 than we were heading into 2016.

 

[Livonski]

The pressure is on already Hardwick guaranteed finals , so they will have to learn and cope

?

Guaranteed?
You'll need a receipt sir, oh you don't have it?

Added a bit gst on to a coach comment?

 

[SumTingWong]

More vomit. Maybe you are just too dim to get it.

More vomit and then you post this. Is this really where you want to go? It's called a difference of opinion and your repsonse is to insult. Says everything about you my friend.

 

[CoggaRules]

Is that you Daniel Andrews? Will it replace the Grand Final day holiday? Because that one is kind of shit.

it wont replace the GF holiday, but Andrews is tossing up whether to have an elimination final holiday to cater for the tigerheads who go around saying we have succeeded because we made 3 elims.

 

[Dr Tigris]

We lost 13 because White did his hamstring a couple weeks before finals, Foley wasn't dropped and Conca did his hamstring in the first quarter. Our midfield got murdered in the second half of that game and we were a midfield rotation down. It made no sense to drop Foley for the final after he had played every game since round 7 of which we only lost 4 games.

That was the coaches fault.

14 was a disaster and ended as soon as our almighty lead kicked against the wind WTF.

15 was pressure city. We had stupidly let North play mind games with us in the final round of the season. I said back then we should have done the same thing as North and rested most of our players risking playing Adelaide at home. In the end we would have been well rested and played either Adelaide or North at the MCG and our key players would have been well rested. Instead our stability driven club let our players get beaten up by North so that they struggled in the second half of the final in the following week. North also bullied us in the midfield because we lacked balls and depth.

Coaches and Captain to blame for that one.

So all in all I would argue that there was any mental issue from the core group of players. Instead we have just been poorly coached, poorly captained, poor team selection and poor decisions by key staff in finals.

On a positive note, at the end of 15 we actually recruited a class player under Hardwick. Unfortunately he didn't play. At the end of 16 we recruited two more class players. If things go well we will have added 3 class players to our team from 2017, and lost a disinterested flogger and a previous champion struggling to stay on the ground.

I actually think we will win the flag next year.

That is fairly close to my thoughts. Except in 13 and 15 we lost partly (largely IMHO) because the opposition started to bully our inside mids. And we had no depth to rotate them. And no monsters to intimidate the opposition inside mids. In finals when the whips are cracking you have to accept that controlling the ball will require contested possessions. And that there will be more contests and pressure than normal games. Given we had such a weak depth in contested mids we had an easy weakness to exploit. And it was exploited. Until this year we haven't dealt with that issue. Prestia and Cady should be a huge help.

A good game plan will help also.

 

[tunksy]

That is fairly close to my thoughts. Except in 13 and 15 we lost partly (largely IMHO) because the opposition started to bully our inside mids. And we had no depth to rotate them. And no monsters to intimidate the opposition inside mids. In finals when the whips are cracking you have to accept that controlling the ball will require contested possessions. And that there will be more contests and pressure than normal games. Given we had such a weak depth in contested mids we had an easy weakness to exploit. And it was exploited. Until this year we haven't dealt with that issue. Prestia and Cady should be a huge help.

A good game plan will help also.

They will be a huge help i agree. But i think we also need more inside mids and a better contested game plan

 

[NZ_Tiger]

it wont replace the GF holiday, but Andrews is tossing up whether to have an elimination final holiday to cater for the tigerheads who go around saying we have succeeded because we made 3 elims.

Sadly it's one of our more successful periods recently.

 

[Al Kemy]

More vomit and then you post this. Is this really where you want to go? It's called a difference of opinion and your repsonse is to insult. Says everything about you my friend.

Says something about both of us my friend. If you actually gave the op an actual opinion or argument we wouldnt be talking. If you had something to say or start a thread of your own i wouldnt critisize you, but going from thread to thread like you do is cowardly!

 

[Al Kemy]

More vomit and then you post this. Is this really where you want to go? It's called a difference of opinion and your repsonse is to insult. Says everything about you my friend.

"What spin. You should be a politician."
This is what you call a difference of opinion!
Even if you were giving the op a nudge is ok too haha, but no you insist on this being an opinion.
The type of veiled bullshit you expect from blues supporters.
Pull your socks up son.

 

[Dr Tigris]

They will be a huge help i agree. But i think we also need more inside mids and a better contested game plan

Depending what you mean I probably agree. Absolutely on a better contested game plan. Having Cotch and Miles win the ball isn't a game plan, it's a hope. Adding Dusty in helps a lot, but robs us elsewhere.

Prestia and Caddy double our inside mid depth. Plus that allows Caddy and Dusty to swap inside and resting forward, which gives us the best of both worlds. If Conca is fit - big IF. then he adds to our inside contested ability.

However, I'd like it that most of our mids can get the contested ball. And that they will do the physical tackle, block, hit type work.

The block space and pressure the ball carrier plan works very well. As long as the opposition don't take you on and pressure your ball carrier from contested ball through the chain moving it outside. Once the opposition does than then they can pack the inside space and the area where the ball will go when we try to move it outside to allow free ball movement. Thus our ball movement slows down and gets very constipated. The players lose their mojo and it all goes downhill (2016). And defensively, once you have people running past you to get the handball going forward you can't block that space. That then allows the opposition to open you game plan up. Your attempt to block up space ends up creating space for an attacking game plan.

Si, if you mean we need a game plan that combines a defensive focus on tackling to stop players being able to release the ball, manic pressure and lots of physical hits - combined with an offensive game plan based on winning the contested ball and moving it on faster and forward rather than sideways then I'm with you.

 

[Al Kemy]

I don't buy into this mental burden crap.

If you are a good enough player playing a good enough game plan then you will win. A good enough player is just that because he is not just talented but mentally tough. We haven't had enough players with the mental toughness to push themselves to the point of exhaustion and beyond in order to win. Maybe they are just not good enough or they just don't believe in the game plan well enough to push themselves to that level. Something has been amiss for quite some time.

It was clear watching the finals series that our low tackling game plan will not even beat an egg in that situation. The corralling from 10m away is just so soft that opposition teams must think they are on holidays when they play us. I blame the coaching staff for that. That must change immediately.

I am hoping with new assistants and the addition of quality players in Prestia and Caddy, we can lift our intensity to the point where we can at least put consistently high pressure on opposition rather than doing that once or twice a year (first game against Sydney and Bulldogs in 2016). I once again hope but I won't be holding my breath.

Yeah good post. Im not sure if i got your point exactly but i think player/club attitude plays a huge part in performane and doubt that a single athlete, let alone teams can keep it 100 percent at all times. I think you and i agree on building mental toughness vs removing " stresses" is something i would prefer to see. And yeah i hope the change in coaching etc starts a new attitude and plan too

 

[SumTingWong]

"What spin. You should be a politician."
This is what you call a difference of opinion!
Even if you were giving the op a nudge is ok too haha, but no you insist on this being an opinion.
The type of veiled bullshit you expect from blues supporters.
Pull your socks up son.

He gave an opinion. I gave an opinion on his opinion. You gave insults. Lol. Rest assured I won't be taking any advice from a self appointed mod in yourself.

 

[Al Kemy]

He gave an opinion. I gave an opinion on his opinion. You gave insults. Lol. Rest assured I won't be taking any advice from a self appointed mod in yourself.

You called his post spin and compared him to a politician and you dont think thats an insult. Plenty hear dont agree with the op thread and give their argument, myself included, its kind of what this site is for.
Unfortunately some emotionally immature people like to tear others down to make up for their own lack. Im not gonna accuse you of being like that after one post but dont be one of them!

 

[TiggerMan22]

We lost 13 because White did his hamstring a couple weeks before finals, Foley wasn't dropped and Conca did his hamstring in the first quarter. Our midfield got murdered in the second half of that game and we were a midfield rotation down. It made no sense to drop Foley for the final after he had played every game since round 7 of which we only lost 4 games.

That was the coaches fault.

14 was a disaster and ended as soon as our almighty lead kicked against the wind WTF.

15 was pressure city. We had stupidly let North play mind games with us in the final round of the season. I said back then we should have done the same thing as North and rested most of our players risking playing Adelaide at home. In the end we would have been well rested and played either Adelaide or North at the MCG and our key players would have been well rested. Instead our stability driven club let our players get beaten up by North so that they struggled in the second half of the final in the following week. North also bullied us in the midfield because we lacked balls and depth.

Also in 13, Carlton were our bogey team. The 2 home and away games that year we struggled hard against them (not to mention just about the decade before it), finals made no difference.
They also had Judd and Malthouse. 2 people that are very experienced in finals.

The wind made no difference in 14. We gave it everything to win that 9 in the row, with Sydney, Crows and Dons games in the last 4 weeks all very tough fought wins. We went into all those 3 as underdogs.
Compare that to Port who started the year 10-1, then went 5-7 after that. They coasted the 2nd half of that year and went into finals primed and ready while we were the opposite.

15 another bogey team. Lost our previous 5 (dont count the round 23 'game') against them. Game went the same way as the other home and away games.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Well, you speak some truth about mental toughness. However, mental toughness is not an unwavering, stable, internal trait. Mental toughness is a flexible trait. Confidence is a flexible trait. Mental health is a flexible trait. One of the key factors that affect mental toughness is precisely what I'm hinting at with this thread - the external pressure at the beginning of the 2016 season. A lot of our players that had previously demonstrated a degree of mental toughness were no longer at their peak in that area due to all these factors mounting.

Sure, if everyone on our list handled it like Trent did and played their hearts out, we would have turned the tide. Dimma expected that to happen ("we will still make the finals, once we're up and running we know we are good enough")

But we don't have a team full of Cotchins, or Hodges, or Selwoods... nobody does.

That's not the answer.

The answer lies within the culture of the club this pre-season enabling 30+ players to be at their absolute peak, mentally.

We are in a stronger position to achieve this type of culture heading into 2017 than we were heading into 2016.

Culture takes years to build and you don't flip it on just like that. They can be a bit fragile this group, reinforced by a game style that values possessions and cautious ball movement.

I don't think the high turn over of players helps either but it almost seems like there's a lack of trust between coaching and playing groups. Hardwick's football philosophy removes attacking instinct and undervalues some of key fundamentals of the game such as tackling and one percenters.

IMO football is about confidence if that's the mental edge/burden we're talking about then I agree. If its the clubs inability to deal with the smallest modicum of the expectation in winning a final after three attempts then we have some serious issues at a professional level that can't be dealt with in one preseason

 

[Al Kemy]

Culture takes years to build and you don't flip it on just like that. They can be a bit fragile this group, reinforced by a game style that values possessions and cautious ball movement.

I don't think the high turn over of players helps either but it almost seems like there's a lack of trust between coaching and playing groups. Harwick's football philosophy removes attacking instinct and undervalues some of key fundamentals of the game such as tackling and one percenters.

IMO football is about confidence if that's the mental edge/burden we're talking about then I agree. If its the clubs inability to deal with the smallest modicum of the expectation in winning a final after three attempts then we have some serious issues at a professional level that can't be dealt with in one preseason

I think a lot along the same lines. Just not convinced about our game plan comments. I could be wrong here but i think that what we see as over posessions and ball movement could be the result of all the things in your post and not necessarily the game plan!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

CULTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

If its the clubs inability to deal with the smallest modicum of the expectation in winning a final after three attempts then we have some serious issues at a professional level that can't be dealt with in one preseason

A small modicum of expectation? For the Richmond Football Club coming off 3 finals losses? With 70,000+ members and a pest media?

A small modicum of expectation?

Your "if" statement is wrong and misses the point, your post is built upon an incorrect assumption.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Umm...

A small modicum of expectation? For the Richmond Football Club coming off 3 finals losses? With 70,000+ members and a pest media?

A small modicum of expectation?

Come.

On.

Yes that's right. Good teams deal with it and find a way.

I think to expect one finals win from three attempts is small. I didn't expect we'd win a final at every attempt but at least one.

Anyway I don't subscribe to the fact that the RFC has some special expectation curse that other clubs don't have. To use that as an excuse is just loser talk and shits me no end.

We're a professional sporting club in the most elite professional sport in this country. Deal with it and get it done.

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

Yes that's right. Good teams deal with it and find a way.

I think to expect one finals win from three attempts is small. I didn't expect we'd win a final at every attempt but at least one.

Anyway I don't subscribe to the fact that the RFC has some special expectation curse that other clubs don't have. To use that as an excuse is just loser talk and shits me no end.

We're a professional sporting club in the most elite professional sport in this country. Deal with it and get it done.

Totally and utterly disagree that the expectation placed on the RFC was the "smallest modicum" of expectation.

"We're professional, deal with it" is not a great solution to this incorrect assumption.

You're a quality poster but I'll agree to disagree here.

 

[docko911]

That is fairly close to my thoughts. Except in 13 and 15 we lost partly (largely IMHO) because the opposition started to bully our inside mids. And we had no depth to rotate them. And no monsters to intimidate the opposition inside mids. In finals when the whips are cracking you have to accept that controlling the ball will require contested possessions. And that there will be more contests and pressure than normal games. Given we had such a weak depth in contested mids we had an easy weakness to exploit. And it was exploited. Until this year we haven't dealt with that issue. Prestia and Cady should be a huge help.

A good game plan will help also.

I must have forgot to say this also...

Caddy and Prestia will have a greater impact in finals especially compared to Deledio because they are both inside players where as Deledio is the outside cream.