the baby hawks are hell impressive

[Footy Smarts]

No man's land isn't fair. They don't have key players coming to an end for a while and they have plenty of young players who could improve a lot before then. Who knows how good they could be.

But the turn around this year has mainly been about getting more mature along with getting their best player (Day) back. Compare the team against Richmond to the team that was thumped by Gold Coast earlier in the year:

Ins - Breust (33), Gunston (32), Jiath (25), Day (23), D'Ambrosio (21), Watson (19), Dear (18)

Outs - Maginness (23), Butler (21), MacDonald (21), Mitchell (21), Ramsden (20), Ward (20), Hustwaite (19)

They've gone from very young early in the season to youngish now. They were much older than Adelaide's team last week, comfortably older than North and similar to Freo, GWS and Port.

 

[daniel23]

So is 25 the new 30 on here now ? 14 players 25 and under last weekend.

 

[Vindicater]

Still think they are a few years off (I would think Hawks fans would agree with this).

They have one speed at the moment and teams like that get found out at the pointy end.

Over the next few years if they can work out how to play tempo footy as well they will contending.

 

[Pinnell]

Dead cat bounce

 

[Dewyyyyy]

For anyone nerdy enough

Diamonds and Triangles

A look at the structure behind the rapid rise of the Baby Hawks

bit.ly

 

[Dewyyyyy]

"Baby" Hawks..?


View attachment 2020958

3 players over 30 playing.

1 the sub, 1 a role playing key defender and the other a stop gap who’s providing good experience and performing in patches.

A good group of late 20s and mid 20s players, with the rest a clump of under 23 top end talent.

It’s a great profile of a young list, a baby side, 2nd youngest I believe.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It just feels like they are middling out to me. Hovering around the 8-10th spot is looking the way they are heading.

If they want to go better then that 8-10th they need to find a few things and not sure they will have the picks or the ability to track what they need.

Im fairly confident when I say that even with Hawks having a young squad that Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS are just absolutely miles ahead of them in this area and that Hawks have a long way to go to catch up and be a contender

Hawthorn are pushing the finals and are the second youngest and in comparison to other youth sides, like Sydney are vastly inexperienced by games played.

Your take is laughable.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I was at the game yesterday. A number of people were pointing out Hawks are using soccer 101 tactics. Maybe you soccer lovers could point some out.

I believe Clarko did the same with the 3peat hawks.

Just posted an article I wrote about this very thing, some similar aspects

 

[Dewyyyyy]

They've been impressive.

But it's actually been the mid career players that have impressed me most. Hardwick, Moore, Chol, Scrimshaw, Impey, Amon and Worpel as a collective have been much better than I expected. I think I just underrated them. None of them are old but they're mature bodies.

Add in Day who looks a flat out superstar and you've got a very competitive team.

The kids have done ok. Weddle looks great, Makenzie and Dear talented, etc. But it's not the really young ones that have shifted the momentum for them.

I disagree in terms of “kids just being ok, and not being the main reasons for the momentum shift”, I mean Moore/Scrimshaw types are still 23/24, which isn’t even considering to be prime age yet which is around 25.

Massimo, been massive and he’s 20, MacKenzie has been ultra impressive with his damage, 20. Watson, Ginnivan, Day, Newcombe, Weddle, Dear, MacDonald all under 22 and been really key for this side.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Looks like the hawks are getting that mix right. Still a few pieces missing from the puzzle.
Just for fun, Saturday's team average 25.3 years and 98 games. The 08 premiership team was 24.7 years and 107 games.
The time for this group to show a bit is now!
Freo, NM and Adelaide all fielded younger teams this weekend.

This would be skewed by Breust as sub, Gunston who will fall out for Lewis, as just two examples.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Yeah I’m still not that impressed with their kids, reckon they’re gonna be caught in the saints/essendon trap of being a solid team for years.

Why do West Coast fans always have the worst opinions?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You are in the same spot as Essendon.

Terrible list builds.

False perception of youth.

List being heavily propped up by a large stack of senior players on the verge of retirement.

Current momentum will be short lived as they drop off.

Going no-where fast.

You mean Breust who’s playing as the super sub, or Gunston who had a touch on the weekend? Those ones getting on close to retirement?

Look the senior players are playing well, Amon, Sicily and Impey for example. But the youth are driving it, most of the side is youth.

Jeez

 

[Dewyyyyy]

No mans land. Not as young as media try to portray them. Have too many players who regularly play for free kicks. Will come back to bite them.

Go enjoy your flag, oh wait..

Plastic minnow franchise

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Still think they are a few years off (I would think Hawks fans would agree with this).

They have one speed at the moment and teams like that get found out at the pointy end.

Over the next few years if they can work out how to play tempo footy as well they will contending.

I think Hawthorn are past just one tempo or speed. Last year yes, handball happy play on all costs and corridor. This year the kick mark and picking of zones is back, running and dashing when given the chance and defending very well. The DNA is premiership capacity, it’s how long it’ll take to get there and continuing to perform, do this against Carlton, Geelong in Geelong or GWS again. The football world WILL be put on notice.

 

[Crimsons]

I disagree in terms of “kids just being ok, and not being the main reasons for the momentum shift”, I mean Moore/Scrimshaw types are still 23/24, which isn’t even considering to be prime age yet which is around 25.

Scrimshaw will be 26 and Moore 25 this year.

 

[kirbatron]

wait til we exploit free agency again

 

[matey]

I’m ok with a core group of youth including Weddle, Day, Newk, Frenchie, Massimo, Ginni, Wizard, Dear, Croc, Ward, Blanc, Huss, Finn, Seamus to take us into the future over the next decade and throw in another bunch of players in Siss, Dimma, Scrim, Amon, Meek, Reeves, Lewis, Frost, Moore, Nash, Worpel, Impey, Jiath, Chol that won’t be going anywhere real soon …… far from the finished product but the stars are aligning very very nicely.

 

[Shueygod]

Why do West Coast fans always have the worst opinions?

Just reckon you’re lacking any real stars compared to the youth of other teams.

Day, Weddle, Newcombe and then nothing but B graders.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Just posted an article I wrote about this very thing, some similar aspects

Chuck a link, I’ll have a read

 

[Vindicater]

I think Hawthorn are past just one tempo or speed. Last year yes, handball happy play on all costs and corridor. This year the kick mark and picking of zones is back, running and dashing when given the chance and defending very well. The DNA is premiership capacity, it’s how long it’ll take to get there and continuing to perform, do this against Carlton, Geelong in Geelong or GWS again. The football world WILL be put on notice.

They are still playing a slingshot fast paced style which relies on numbers pushing out the front of stoppages The kick mark aspect of that has improved because they have had longer to gel together and they are improving as they age.

Probably their biggest struggle in the current purple patch was against St Kilda who forced them into a grind.

That will be where they come undone currently (not long term as they grow). A team with more skill and experience than St Kilda will pull them into a grind.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Just reckon you’re lacking any real stars compared to the youth of other teams.

Day, Weddle, Newcombe and then nothing but B graders.

Watson and Mackenzie will be stars.

Calsher Dear the real smokey. Does everything you want a gun tall forward to do and he's only been taking footy seriously for about 12 months.
Sky is the absolute limit for him.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

They are still playing a slingshot fast paced style which relies on numbers pushing out the front of stoppages The kick mark aspect of that has improved because they have had longer to gel together and they are improving as they age.

Probably their biggest struggle in the current purple patch was against St Kilda who forced them into a grind.

That will be where they come undone currently (not long term as they grow). A team with more skill and experience than St Kilda will pull them into a grind.

As someone who’s been focusing purely on the structure of the side, it’s not ALL about slingshot. A front half turnover game gets played too, a real strength around the ball and the kick mark is played more when needed, it’ll still develop.

The key thing is it’s not easy to play against, or plan against.

That’s the game I was most pleased about, playing a dead game against a strong defensive unit, showing that, that style of game and side of the game is able to be played, and well.

It will be a watch because someone like Collingwood, still probably tries to play more attacking then most sides in the 8, Carlton will grind you out through contest.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Chuck a link, I’ll have a read

It was posted above -

For anyone nerdy enough

Diamonds and Triangles

A look at the structure behind the rapid rise of the Baby Hawks

bit.ly

 

[Cleansweep17]

It was posted above -

Great read!

Yeah it makes sense their structure counters ours because we get sucked in like bees to a honeypot whilst you have 2-3 players free to carve us up if your player wins the ball.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Great read!

Yeah it makes sense their structure counters ours because we get sucked in like bees to a honeypot whilst you have 2-3 players free to carve us up if your player wins the ball.

It’s something all teams should try in someway, doesn’t have to be just a diamond or just a triangle for the interception. But a shape around the ball and behind the ball will put any team in a better position to defend and attack either way.