Star Wars The Acolyte

[SM]

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Indeed.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

You don't make a billion dollars from curious people. You make billion if people see the film more than once and it is actually enjoyable. I think I saw it 4 times, including once in Bali. People enjoyed it and while it had a lot of confusing questions, it was the first film in a trilogy that would (you expected at the time) resolve those questions in a logical and intriguing way.

Then The Last Jedi came out and ****ed everything. I didn't rewatch TLJ in cinemas. I did go and see TROS once, and had some small satisfaction from how it tried to wind back all the errors of the TLJ but then that film fell into its own Death Star trash compactor of garbage and I never revisted that film either. The worst part about TLJ and TROS were that they ruined TFA as well. Now knowing that there is no good explanation for Luke's absence, why Han is a scoundrel again, why the First Order exist, who Maz Kanata or Snoke are makes that film so much worse looking back. The Sequel films are basically dead because of it.

100% agree

I too saw the TFA multiple times yes it was soft reboot but Disney was off to a good start

Then pissed it all down the drain with TLJ

TROS tried to fix the mess but the damage was already done and beyond repair.

The fan base has been divided since TLJ and Disney are now only pushing that wedge even further

 

[FlowersByIrene]

100% agree

I too saw the TFA multiple times yes it was soft reboot but Disney was off to a good start

Then pissed it all down the drain with TLJ

TROS tried to fix the mess but the damage was already done and beyond repair.

The fan base has been divided since TLJ and Disney are now only pushing that wedge even further

Agreed. And the worst part is the fans on the TLJ side seem to revel in the fact that Star Wars "isn't for" pre-TLJ fans anymore. They say stuff like "this is a show about space wizards for Children it's not supposed to be for you", "FU the force is female"... etc etc, actively turning on genuine criticisms and seemingly enjoying the fact that half (and when I say half, it's actually more like 90%) of the fanbase is being intentionally ostracised. I remember being a supporter of the prequels my whole life but never did I feel the need to intentionally attack those who were original truthers. I don't understand people these days...

 

[Frank Bunn]

Ep3 wasnt even a flashback, like some brief view. It was a whole linear story from start to finish of that period in time. Ep3 shoildve actually been ep1, and then ep1 and 2 would follow and it would provide more of that connection/interest with the characters, suspense, and emotionality

One problem with prequels is that we already know certain outcomes, so there's a loss of suspense and emotional impact of jeopardy for the characters. The writers created a prequel within their own show!

We know Osha and Mae both survive so there's little care factor when they are running around a burning cave. The murder mystery around the twins didn't even last to the end of the first episode so it wasn't worth structuring the show around that. In episodes 1 and 2 we don't care about the deaths of Indira and Torbin because we know nothing about them.

There's some basics of story telling that are poor here. Then also silly stuff in the detail - such as the prison ship escape, a fire on the outside of a spaceship, Kung Fu against a deadly assassin rather than use the force or a light saber.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Agreed. And the worst part is the fans on the TLJ side seem to revel in the fact that Star Wars "isn't for" pre-TLJ fans anymore. They say stuff like "this is a show about space wizards for Children it's not supposed to be for you", "FU the force is female"... etc etc, actively turning on genuine criticisms and seemingly enjoying the fact that half (and when I say half, it's actually more like 90%) of the fanbase is being intentionally ostracised. I remember being a supporter of the prequels my whole life but never did I feel the need to intentionally attack those who were original truthers. I don't understand people these days...

It's only going to get worse now.

Kathleen has been defending the criticism that the Acolyte is getting she's given the middle finger to the fans basicly saying this the way forward now.

 

[SM]

It's only going to get worse now.

Kathleen has been defending the criticism that the Acolyte is getting she's given the middle finger to the fans basicly saying this the way forward now.

Then don't watch I guess.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Then don't watch I guess.

Yep I haven't

 

[SM]

Yep I haven't

Yet you keep posting.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Russian Doll was supposedly very well received, not that I've watched it personally.

Do you ever wonder though that these supposedly 'talented' people who are out there don't want to waste their time writing essentially Star Wars fanfiction that will get them piles of online hate when they could flex their creative limbs in their own productions?

You call it narcissism from these creators, I call it entitlement from the audiences of these mega franchises, where the people who have grown up obsessed with the material is convinced that their expectation/perception of the franchise is correct and all other views are incorrect, so that when they watch or read something that doesn't align with their world view, they dismiss it as garbage/rubbish/woke/whatever to explain why it doesn't match up with their expectations. We see it time and again in Doctor Who, Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, and so on so forth. The proliferation of media these days makes everyone an expert critic who likes to pick apart what they're watching because there's just such a sheer volume of material out there for them to watch. Then when you see a franchise come out with a vanilla, safe product it gets ripped apart for not taking any risks or offering anything new, as TFA has been. A lot of Star Wars fans have enjoyed the material put out, but because the negative voices scream louder, the groupthink becomes 'this material is crap'. I stopped responding to negative messages in here for a few days and it's amazing to see how quickly the momentum grows for people going from 'yeah this is middle of the road, let's see how it goes' to 'this is a steaming pile of garbage' because people talk themselves into one extreme or the other. It's remarkably destructive.

I'm not for one minute saying this show is perfect or high cinema or anything extreme of that sort, but it's a fresh, interesting story (some will snort at this but a murder mystery-esque thriller story is quite a new slant for a SW show) set in an era we know virtually nothing about with characters that (at least I) find quite interesting from what we know of them. For how many years have people said "Omg how cool would it be to see a Wookiee Jedi??" and now we finally have one and he's barely merited a mention from people? He hasn't had a whole lot of screen time so far but we're only three episodes in. It's why I asked Jatz the question (which he's been unable to answer) of what he actually expected out of this show, because I think people didn't actually know what they wanted, and because it's not some out of the box, KOTOR remake or whatever, people are feeling let down, but don't know how to express it.

Yeah spot on! Star Wars is one of those things we all feel is special to us because we’ve all grown up with it. The problem is that when new material is made it doesn’t feel like Star Wars because it’s new and doesn’t have that nostalgic touch! It’s too easy then to fall into the trap of dismissing it as rubbish without actively trying to engage with it.

I’ve been there too.

 

[Kellythatsit]

I dont agree with this SM. This is just the narcissistic mindset of the people at Star Wars now.. "it couldn't possibly be that i'm making bad storied that no one wants, there's no pleasing people". The stuff they are making currently is bad because the people in control of the studio are talentless and they're hiring people who are talentless.

I mean look at Lesly Headland's stunning successes in the industry...

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She's "known for" this schlock. Again... this show cost as much as Dune. Find talented people, with interesting stories to tell and let them do it.

Well Russian Doll is excellent so that’s a winner for me.

Also, have you ever checked out the filmographies of Irvin Kershener or Richard Marquand? Other than their respective entries into the Star Wars saga their works are largely forgettable (occasionally regrettable).

Or to flip it, how about the previous works of Abrams and Johnson. Both at the time of filming their Star Wars projects had popular and well received films under their belt. In fact Abrams was possibly one of the hottest talents in Hollywood at the time. Despite this, their entries are now dismissed as either reductive, divisive, and even destructive.

 

[SM]

Well Russian Doll is excellent so that’s a winner for me.

Also, have you ever checked out the filmographies of Irvin Kershener or Richard Marquand? Other than their respective entries into the Star Wars saga their works are largely forgettable (occasionally regrettable).

Or to flip it, how about the previous works of Abrams and Johnson. Both at the time of filming their Star Wars projects had popular and well received films under their belt. In fact Abrams was possibly one of the hottest talents in Hollywood at the time. Despite this, their entries are now dismissed as either reductive, divisive, and even destructive.

Both are also white men who were big Star Wars fans..

 

[Kellythatsit]

Maybe you're right that there's no one out there, but I find it hard to believe. If someone like Denis Villeneuve is a big a fan of Dune as he is, and is willing to take that Project on that had always been thought of as being highly difficult to adapt, surely there are similar people in the Star Wars space. I think the issue is, and without straying into the line of discussion that The Old Dark Navy's considers too political for this thread, I suspect those creators with a passion for Star Wars are likely white males, and it's pretty clear the current Star Wars brass is not interested in giving that demographic the reigns at this point in time.

Just wanting to follow up on this, and at risk of pushing The Old Dark Navy's tolerance, I feel it is relevant:

It’s a bit of an odd comment considering all 5 films in the Disney era were written and directed by white men. Meanwhile, 4 of the 6 live action Disney+ series have been written and show run by white men.

Perhaps, as has been suggested by Beniof & Weiss, James Mangold, Ron Howard, and even Lucas himself, the biggest deterrent for creators like Villeneuve are the massive and often contradictory restrictions placed on their ability to tell stories by Star Wars fans themselves. Look at the ridiculous reaction to The Last Jedi and Rian Johnson, who to this day continues to get death threats from toxic “fans”. All because he wanted to make a Star War that was challenging and colour slightly outside the lines.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Ep3 wasnt even a flashback, like some brief view. It was a whole linear story from start to finish of that period in time. Ep3 shoildve actually been ep1, and then ep1 and 2 would follow and it would provide more of that connection/interest with the characters, suspense, and emotionality

I really like this style of storytelling. Where you’re given the result but not the context. You have to continuously readjust your perspective on the story and what is happening. I don’t think we are really supposed to be shocked about Mae falling, rather than to be curious about how she survived.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Well Russian Doll is excellent so that’s a winner for me.

I watched Russian Doll. I wasn't the only one saying it wasn't very good and the first couple of episodes were poor (directed by Headland).

Streaming - The Netflix Thread

Ted Bundy movie coming out soon. Zac Efron is Ted Bundy. Sent from my MI PAD 4 using Tapatalk Efron eh? Well we’ll see if he can pull it off. I actually think he could.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Kellythatsit]

For all the complaints that this episode somehow ruins Star Wars, I think what The Acolyte is doing with the Chosen One myth could be interesting. To me, the idea that Anakin is no longer “special” is misreading what has been presented in the series so far.

If you think about it chronologically:

- The Chosen One prophecy is made

- The twins are created from “nothing”

- it is suggested that the way they are created is something Jedi would find abhorrent

- The Jedi discover the twins and the prophecy may be the reason they want to take them

- Something dark happens and it is likely pushed aside, hidden by the Jedi.

- Anakin born through what appears to be a vergence in the Force

- Because of previous events with the twins, the Jedi are more hesitant to train him

Essentially, Anakin’s birth, it is suggested in the Prequels, was brought about by the Force itself. However, the twins appears to be dark magic (possibly Sith magic). Therefore, it is because of the events in the Acolyte that the Jedi council are so hesitant to have Anakin trained, particularly by someone like Qui-Gon who is very similar to Sol.

With Obi-Wan, however, they likely thought they could keep a better eye on his training and Obi-Wan would be more inclined to agree with their advice. This, however, is exactly what makes Anakin more frustrated and feels restrained. Driving him to the honeyed words of Palpatine.

Really interested to see how this all plays out in the story.

 

[GreyCrow]

One problem with prequels is that we already know certain outcomes, so there's a loss of suspense and emotional impact of jeopardy for the characters. The writers created a prequel within their own show!

We know Osha and Mae both survive so there's little care factor when they are running around a burning cave. The murder mystery around the twins didn't even last to the end of the first episode so it wasn't worth structuring the show around that. In episodes 1 and 2 we don't care about the deaths of Indira and Torbin because we know nothing about them.

There's some basics of story telling that are poor here. Then also silly stuff in the detail - such as the prison ship escape, a fire on the outside of a spaceship, Kung Fu against a deadly assassin rather than use the force or a light saber.

I think there is some validity to these concerns

One of the difficulties as a writer and director is how to structure the story.

Is episode 3 better as an opener introducing the main characters and major plot arc while also spoiling the twist in ep 1 ? As ep 1 quickly introduced Mae I dont think too much changes in our perspective . Carrie Moss dying early while being a major part also had a whiff of ' well we must be having flashbacks'' - people even pointed out this anomaly

I wonder if in a year or 2 when I have forgotten this starting with episode 3 before 1 and 2 changes my thoughts

 

[Gasometer]

Leia flying in space

How to kill a franchise in 4 words. Hopeless

 

[Frank Bunn]

I think there is some validity to these concerns

One of the difficulties as a writer and director is how to structure the story.

Is episode 3 better as an opener introducing the main characters and major plot arc while also spoiling the twist in ep 1 ? As ep 1 quickly introduced Mae I dont think too much changes in our perspective . Carrie Moss dying early while being a major part also had a whiff of ' well we must be having flashbacks'' - people even pointed out this anomaly

I wonder if in a year or 2 when I have forgotten this starting with episode 3 before 1 and 2 changes my thoughts

I don't know the end goal of the writers but here's an alternative way to structure the show based on what we have seen so far. There's still a twist or two, and no in-show prequel episode required.

World-building. Get to know the twins and the witches. Introduce the four Jedis. There's a confrontation between the two groups with a suspenseful end to the first episode.​

​

Some resolution of the conflict. More character development...until something sparks a fight/slaughter and the place burns down. Mae is dead.​

​

We spend time with Osha as she trains to become Sol's Padawan. Something happens that makes her leave the Jedi.​

​

'Osha' confronts Indira then Torbin. Explains why she wants to kill them, with flashbacks to what really happened on Brendok. We care about Indira and Torbin's deaths because we got to know them a little. The real Osha is now a mechanic and is arrested.​

​

We find out Mae isn't dead and she is the real killer.​

 

[SM]

I don't know the end goal of the writers but here's an alternative way to structure the show based on what we have seen so far. There's still a twist or two, and no in-show prequel episode required.

World-building. Get to know the twins and the witches. Introduce the four Jedis. There's a confrontation between the two groups with a suspenseful end to the first episode.​

​

Some resolution of the conflict. More character development...until something sparks a fight/slaughter and the place burns down. Mae is dead.​

​

We spend time with Osha as she trains to become Sol's Padawan. Something happens that makes her leave the Jedi.​

​

'Osha' confronts Indira then Torbin. Explains why she wants to kill them, with flashbacks to what really happened on Brendok. We care about Indira and Torbin's deaths because we got to know them a little. The real Osha is now a mechanic and is arrested.​

​

We find out Mae isn't dead and she is the real killer.​

That's way too much time spent before the bulk plot of the show.

 

[Kellythatsit]

I watched Russian Doll. I wasn't the only one saying it wasn't very good and the first couple of episodes were poor (directed by Headland).

Streaming - The Netflix Thread

Ted Bundy movie coming out soon. Zac Efron is Ted Bundy. Sent from my MI PAD 4 using Tapatalk Efron eh? Well we’ll see if he can pull it off. I actually think he could.

www.bigfooty.com

Never said you were. I was just stating that I thought it was great.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Leia flying in space

How to kill a franchise in 4 words. Hopeless

The number of times Star Wars has supposedly been killed in the last 10 years, hell since 1978 “Holiday Special”, is truly a testament to the franchise’s resilience.

 

[Brick Loosener]

This whole tragedy could have been prevented.

 

[crafty_bernardo]

creator's body of work

 

[GreyCrow]

creator's body of work

View attachment 2020915

You only have to read this board to see why she shouldnt have SW die hards

Agreed on the invigorating etc

 

[jdeezy]

We're getting more Star Wars content than ever, I don't understand why it's a problem that some of the content is being driven by people that wouldn't normally take on Star Wars projects?

You've got Dave Filoni "Star Wars is my religion I'm Lucas 2.0" projects. You've got Jon Favreau / JJ Abrams "I was a fan growing up with Star Wars and want to emulate the feel of the original movies" projects. You've got a Rian Johnson "I'm a Star Wars fan but want to put some different twists to it" project (should've had more of this). Now you've got Tony Gilroy and Lesley Headland with "the world of Star Wars seems like a good grounds for storytelling but I'm not bogged down by sticking with a familiar format" projects (and one of those is one of the best pieces of Star Wars media in the whole franchise). They all exist. None are taking away from another. For better or worse Lucasfilm is letting them all exist at the same time.

Not all of it has to be for you. Get over it.