Preview The 2022 Pre Season Training Official Thread

[jenny61_99]

Watch out.. you’ll get the dreaded big red thumbsdown from the usual apologists if you start talking sense like that about our current midfield..

Keays, sloane, laird, crouch… if these guys get 80% of our midfield minutes from round 1 onwards again.. we’ll be in a world of pain.

Easily 4 of the least damaging “go too” midfielders in the comp.

You got the thumbs down because I think your opinion on Keays is deadset wrong.

 

[jenny61_99]

The practice match on Friday unfortunately will be behind closed doors but streamed live on Kayo - so much for taking these practice matches to the people! Mind you, it’s probably a blessing in disguise, supposed to rain all day.

 

[Scorpus]

The balance of the midfield is really important and something I think we haven't had right over the years.

Looking at those categories, I'd go:

Decision makers: Dawson, Sholl, Schoenberg, Seedsman, Rachele, Cook

Explosive Mids: Schoenberg, Pedlar, Keays, Jones, Soligo?

Inside Bulls: Crouch, Sloane, Laird, Berry, Hately

Runners: Sholl, Hamill, Dawson, Thilthorpe, McHenry

I think the issue in the recent past has been that our midfield has been Sloane, Laird & Keays for most of the time. That's 2 inside accumulators, one explosive player, but no good kicks or decision makers.

Need People like Schoenberg, Dawson, McHenry, Jones (hopefully) to change up the midfield combination and give it more balance. God help us if we run Crouch, Laird and Keays as 1st combination, then Sloane, and then some junk minutes for the others. It would set us back years.

Very generous to have Keays as an explosive mid. I'd definitely have him more in the inside bull category

Schoenberg is the only player I'd have definitively in the decision making and explosive categories that also plays inside midfield. The others in this category play different roles. (This is of players who have played enough AFL to make a call on)

That's a big concern to me. We need to find more players with elite skills, and more with stoppage bursting potential.

We have heaps of inside bulls. No more need for players in this category. So many accumulator types we can't play them all and have to shuffle some to less than ideal positions just so they can get a game. Plenty of outside runners as well and we need a few more of these types that can also be in the decision maker category. Hopefully Dawson fills that role.

 

[George Kramer]

So you are predicting that Schoenberg will not have a single centre clearance involvement in the first month or three? Dawson, Berry etc not a single minute in the midfield?

I am willing to bet you are wrong! What’s a reasonable wager? The loser stops posting for a month or three?

In your rush to be you, I don’t think you comprehended his post. He never suggested what you’re trying to get him to bet on. 75% game time means they aren’t on the field 100% of the time right

 

[George Kramer]

“Leave’s a lot to be desired” is an understatement!..

The lad is a liability.

And its not just his poor disposal… its his total and utter unpredictability. Watch what he does when he gets the ball on nearly every occassion, he normally does one of two things;

1) jams the thing on the boot in a rush without even looking let alone lowering the eyes.

Or

2) runs around in a circle, allowing his opponents to close in on him and opponents downfield ample time to prepare.. then throws it on the boot or erratically hand balls it in hope.

Imagine being upfield from Ben trying to figure out what he’s going to do next, when and where’s he going to kick it?.. is it going to come in your direction?.. is it gonna be a sky ball or is he gonna shank it?.. or maybe it will be the perfect kick this time?

And this is even before, as a player forward of the ball to Ben, you even start having to deal with your direct opponent hassling the hell out of you and your fellow team mates also wondering the same and trying to position themselves for Ben’s impending delivery!

Ben is loved around here.. and it is easy to to see why.
He gives his all for the club and is obviously a great team mate.

But its also easy to see why Brisbane let go of him and we got him for free.

I wouldn’t call him a liability, he does have some good qualities. But if you’re trying to build an A grade midfield he should be 6th strong not a key player. We’ve got a number of young mids we need to develop, something has to give in our make up of Laird, Sloane, Crouch and Keays. Schoenberg I’m confident will get a lot of mid time but how will Hately, Pedlar, Berry and co get worthwhile minutes?

 

[Peter Doherty]

I really think Fogarty took some really great steps forward last year. I view him now as a settled, valuable piece of our forward line.

Some commentators will ignore that and still run with the same comments this year, like big year for Fogarty, has a lot to prove etc.

Last chance for $4m recruit; alarm bells over Cats’ Achilles’ heel: The AFL stars feeling the heat

Last chance for $4m recruit; alarm bells over Cats’ Achilles’ heel: The AFL stars feeling the heat

www.foxsports.com.au

"Darcy Fogarty

It seems like we’ve been talking about Fogarty’s unrealised potential for a long time, but he’s still just 22-years-old. Fogarty penned a contract extension at the end of last year that will take him through until the end of 2023. He’s showed so much potential at times and did look to have his body in better shape to start the season last year, but consistency on-field has deserted the former Pick 12 for the most part. His return in 2021 was cause for optimism, tallying 24 goals from 17 games. The key opportunity for Fogarty to stamp himself as a walk-up starter this season will come immediately, with Taylor Walker’s suspension opening the door for him to take command and get his season off to a flying start. As said before, 24 goals in 17 games is good, but Fogarty’s ceiling is so much higher and he’ll need to continue improving as more and more talent comes on board during the Crows’ rebuild, along with those already on the list like Riley Thilthorpe and Billy Frampton."

Okay I was wrong, this journalist didn't ignore Fogarty’s improved 2021. He actually pointed it out, but still singled him out to be under pressure.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Last chance for $4m recruit; alarm bells over Cats’ Achilles’ heel: The AFL stars feeling the heat

Last chance for $4m recruit; alarm bells over Cats’ Achilles’ heel: The AFL stars feeling the heat

www.foxsports.com.au

"Darcy Fogarty

It seems like we’ve been talking about Fogarty’s unrealised potential for a long time, but he’s still just 22-years-old. Fogarty penned a contract extension at the end of last year that will take him through until the end of 2023. He’s showed so much potential at times and did look to have his body in better shape to start the season last year, but consistency on-field has deserted the former Pick 12 for the most part. His return in 2021 was cause for optimism, tallying 24 goals from 17 games. The key opportunity for Fogarty to stamp himself as a walk-up starter this season will come immediately, with Taylor Walker’s suspension opening the door for him to take command and get his season off to a flying start. As said before, 24 goals in 17 games is good, but Fogarty’s ceiling is so much higher and he’ll need to continue improving as more and more talent comes on board during the Crows’ rebuild, along with those already on the list like Riley Thilthorpe and Billy Frampton."

Okay I was wrong, this journalist didn't ignore Fogarty’s improved 2021. He actually pointed it out, but still singled him out to be under pressure.

I agree with the article tbh, 9 disposal 1.5goals a game is mediocre at best.
There’s still time for Forgaty to have a break out year but the slow progression is a little concerning.

I still have faith he can be a regular contributor but he takes another big step, hopefully he does this year.

 

[StonesThrow]

“Leave’s a lot to be desired” is an understatement!..

The lad is a liability.

And its not just his poor disposal… its his total and utter unpredictability. Watch what he does when he gets the ball on nearly every occassion, he normally does one of two things;

1) jams the thing on the boot in a rush without even looking let alone lowering the eyes.

Or

2) runs around in a circle, allowing his opponents to close in on him and opponents downfield ample time to prepare.. then throws it on the boot or erratically hand balls it in hope.

Imagine being upfield from Ben trying to figure out what he’s going to do next, when and where’s he going to kick it?.. is it going to come in your direction?.. is it gonna be a sky ball or is he gonna shank it?.. or maybe it will be the perfect kick this time?

And this is even before, as a player forward of the ball to Ben, you even start having to deal with your direct opponent hassling the hell out of you and your fellow team mates also wondering the same and trying to position themselves for Ben’s impending delivery!

Ben is loved around here.. and it is easy to to see why.
He gives his all for the club and is obviously a great team mate.

But its also easy to see why Brisbane let go of him and we got him for free.

I think you need to re watch last year's games.

No one's calling him elite, but he's still a quality midfielder.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I wouldn’t call him a liability, he does have some good qualities. But if you’re trying to build an A grade midfield he should be 6th strong not a key player. We’ve got a number of young mids we need to develop, something has to give in our make up of Laird, Sloane, Crouch and Keays. Schoenberg I’m confident will get a lot of mid time but how will Hately, Pedlar, Berry and co get worthwhile minutes?

yep… something has to give.

we simply cannot have Keays, Laird, Sloane and Mcrouch all in the side at the same time.

and we cant shuffle all of them out of the midfield into other positions around the ground just to keep them in the 22 surely..

so… who makes way?.. who do we eject?

Sloane?.. not a ****ing chance. he’s the captain. probably the one of the four we will shuffle.. half forward role is currently the discussed option.

Laird?.. nope.. accummulates more than any of the four.

mcrouch?.. where else does he play if not mid?..

Keays?… well something has to ****in give.

we cannot move forward with all four of these guys in the same 22.. they are all too similar as players, too average as midfielders and having all four in the 22 at once means our more highly skilled youngsters coming through will not get game time or more midfield minutes to gain experience and build and we will continue to have one of the worst midfields in the comp.

sloane/laird/keays/mcrouch = ****ing garbage midfield. one of the worst in the comp and its our current ”go too” midfield that we gove most of the minutes to.

go ahead. prove me wrong and name atleast three “go too” midfields in the comp that are worse.

the Hawks maybe?.. I’d argue mitchell, wingard, sorong, o’meara, worpel.. whilst not being great atleast has some points of difference between the players..

North?.. nope. I think i’d rather have Norths current midfield crop thank you.. they have some ****in gun mids building there IMO and have obviously also added H-F..

Collingwood?.. maybe?

who’s then?.. who’s midfield is worse than Adelaide’s currently?.. Genuine question.

And dont bother putting a pathetic, gutless thumbsdown or respond without answering the question as to which midfields are worse than the crows currently…

 

[Jirkago75]

Thats a god awful comparison.

If you were to compare him to any crows players - Smith & Seedsman would be much better comparisons.

Luko averaged more kicks and meters gained per game than both Seedsman and Brodie Smith all whilst turning the ball over less. Not bad for a kid that turned 21 halfway through the season.

Also - the turnover stat sucks. Surely, any stat where you sit between Patrick Dangerfield and Dustin Martin can't be used against ya.

I

“Leave’s a lot to be desired” is an understatement!..

The lad is a liability.

And its not just his poor disposal… its his total and utter unpredictability. Watch what he does when he gets the ball on nearly every occassion, he normally does one of two things;

1) jams the thing on the boot in a rush without even looking let alone lowering the eyes.

Or

2) runs around in a circle, allowing his opponents to close in on him and opponents downfield ample time to prepare.. then throws it on the boot or erratically hand balls it in hope.

Imagine being upfield from Ben trying to figure out what he’s going to do next, when and where’s he going to kick it?.. is it going to come in your direction?.. is it gonna be a sky ball or is he gonna shank it?.. or maybe it will be the perfect kick this time?

And this is even before, as a player forward of the ball to Ben, you even start having to deal with your direct opponent hassling the hell out of you and your fellow team mates also wondering the same and trying to position themselves for Ben’s impending delivery!

Ben is loved around here.. and it is easy to to see why.
He gives his all for the club and is obviously a great team mate.

But its also easy to see why Brisbane let go of him and we got him for free.

this board always looks at the negative of every players, thinking every player will be perfect. I remember almost everyone saying Lyons is so slow and he will never make it or amount to anything. Once he got to Brisbane the couches gave him confidence and look at him go now.

His positives far outweigh his downfalls

 

[Bearded Clam]

I think you need to re watch last year's games.

No one's calling him elite, but he's still a quality midfielder.

I watched all of last years games… watched plenty of replays of them too.

Ben’s a scrapper… erractic, wildly unpredictable and poor by hand and foot and makes bad decisions at times. Brisbane knew it and they delisted him for it.

but he’s a great club/team man, leader, example and standard setter who clearly gives 110% all game in EVERY game.

which is fine.. if you have a dynamic midfield group where each of the main players in the group has points of difference. but thats not Adelaide.

Adelaides main go to is sloane, laird, keays and mcrouch (not so much last year for obvious reasons). all very similar in what they provide. all accumulators that arent anywhere near elite and arent damaging to the opposition.

we simply cant have all four in the one side… sloane, laird and crouch are more valuable than keays IMO.

I’d actually like to get rid of two of them but, as a bare minimum we need to atleast get rid of one.

to me thats Keays.

I’d move sloane to half forward (and bring him into the middle to relieve crouch and laird when required).. and have Crouch and Laird as our experienced two main mids and team them up with a rotational mix of pedlar, shoey (especially shoey!), dawson, rachele, jones, mchenry, cook, berry etc..

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Sloane makes sense to me as a half forward - fit, strong tackler, good kick for goal, my concern is around his marking (previously a strength) given the delayed surgery on his finger.

Might be alone here but I’d prefer to play sloane at half back

He would be very hard to beat in a contest and would also put his body in a hole and take intercept marks as he’s good overhead for his height

 

[Bearded Clam]

Might be alone here but I’d prefer to play sloane at half back

He would be very hard to beat in a contest and would also put his body in a hole and take intercept marks as he’s good overhead for his height

Half back is definitely another option for Sloane and, youre right, he’d do well there.. but we do already have a fair few half back types in the squad as it is..

 

[George Kramer]

I

this board always looks at the negative of every players, thinking every player will be perfect. I remember almost everyone saying Lyons is so slow and he will never make it or amount to anything. Once he got to Brisbane the couches gave him confidence and look at him go now.

His positives far outweigh his downfalls

Umm no, not almost everyone. Lyons had his supporters on here that knew he was being mistreated. Many on here got it wrong about him and still try to claim he’s no good when he plays a bad game.

I’d have Lyons any day over Keays.

We also have supporters on here who will back in the coaches opinions no matter what, player gets a game he must be good, he doesn’t, he’s no good. Never mind coaches make mistakes like Lyons and they back in average players like Mackay to a 200 game plus career.

 

[Mutineer]

Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

stacks up very well in all midfielders stats....Anyway you slice and dice it he's a very valuable midfielder since he's been given the opportunities he's deserved.

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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[Carmo]

I watched all of last years games… watched plenty of replays of them too.

Ben’s a scrapper… erractic, wildly unpredictable and poor by hand and foot and makes bad decisions at times. Brisbane knew it and they delisted him for it.

but he’s a great club/team man, leader, example and standard setter who clearly gives 110% all game in EVERY game.

which is fine.. if you have a dynamic midfield group where each of the main players in the group has points of difference. but thats not Adelaide.

Adelaides main go to is sloane, laird, keays and mcrouch (not so much last year for obvious reasons). all very similar in what they provide. all accumulators that arent anywhere near elite and arent damaging to the opposition.

we simply cant have all four in the one side… sloane, laird and crouch are more valuable than keays IMO.

I’d actually like to get rid of two of them but, as a bare minimum we need to atleast get rid of one.

to me thats Keays.

I’d move sloane to half forward (and bring him into the middle to relieve crouch and laird when required).. and have Crouch and Laird as our experienced two main mids and team them up with a rotational mix of pedlar, shoey (especially shoey!), dawson, rachele, jones, mchenry, cook, berry etc..

If you think you know so much about our midfield get over in the ladder prediction thread and predict where you think us and our worst in the comp at the most important zone midfield will get us compared to other teams. That's why we have that thread, to separate self flagellating know it alls from people who actually do know about footy. Can't wait to see it.

 

[Mutineer]

I’d have Lyons any day over Keays.

I wouldn't in our current position....A player turning 25 in season 2022 Ben Keays over a player Jarryd Lyons turning 30 in season 2022.

Easy decision for me and then there's the leadership etc on top.

Like Lyons all Keays needed was the opportunities to show his worth.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Ben Keays stacks up very well in all midfielders stats....Anyway you slice and dice it he's a very valuable midfielder since he's been given the opportunities he's deserved.

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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The fact that Ben Keays is listed at 13 on that list and Nat Fyfe is all the way down at 45 tell you all you need to know about stats and how reliable they are when judging a players value.

I would pick every single other player in that top 45 before Keays.

Go on Mutineer… look at that top 45 of the list you have provided and name a player you wouldnt take before ben keays when picking your team…

 

[Bearded Clam]

If you think you know so much about our midfield get over in the ladder prediction thread and predict where you think us and our worst in the comp at the most important zone midfield will get us compared to other teams. That's why we have that thread, to separate self flagellating know it alls from people who actually do know about footy. Can't wait to see it.

So… i take it you cant name a midfield worse than ours then?…

 

[George Kramer]

I wouldn't in our current position....A player turning 25 in season 2022 Ben Keays over a player Jarryd Lyons turning 30 in season 2022.

Easy decision for me and then there's the leadership etc on top.

Like Lyons all Keays needed was the opportunities to show his worth.

Given the age differences yes, didn’t realise Lyons was that old now, but in terms of who the better footballer is, for mine it’s Lyons. He’s got a better football brain.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Ben Keays stacks up very well in all midfielders stats....Anyway you slice and dice it he's a very valuable midfielder since he's been given the opportunities he's deserved.

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Impossible to argue against that

 

[Mutineer]

Ben Keays stacks up very well in all midfielders stats....Anyway you slice and dice it he's a very valuable midfielder since he's been given the opportunities he's deserved.

The fact that Ben Keays is listed at 13 on that list and Nat Fyfe is all the way down at 45 tell you all you need to know about stats and how reliable they are when judging a players value.

I would pick every single other player in that top 45 before Keays.

Go on Mutineer… look at that top 45 of the list you have provided and name a player you wouldnt take before ben keays when picking your team…

Maybe you need to actually understand how Pro-Stats works before posting, that is in only one column, centre clearances and of course Ben was way ahead of Fyfe when he played 22 games compared to 15 by Fyfe...

If you want a season 2021 comparitor ranked on games played....

Nathan Fyfe and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison

Nathan Fyfe and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Scorpus]

Ben Keays stacks up very well in all midfielders stats....Anyway you slice and dice it he's a very valuable midfielder since he's been given the opportunities he's deserved.

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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www.afl.com.au

Geez how bad is the new AFL Stats website. Gotten rid of the individual player pages. What the hell

 

[Mutineer]

Geez how bad is the new AFL Stats website. Gotten rid of the individual player pages. What the hell

I'd say that will come back when season 2022 starts.

Currently it takes a lot of patience to find what you're looking for.

 

[Mutineer]

Given the age differences yes, didn’t realise Lyons was that old now, but in terms of who the better footballer is, for mine it’s Lyons. He’s got a better football brain.

I'd hold fire on that statement until Keays has had a couple more years of being a regular AFL starting 22 player.

Not a lot in it on 2021 returns...

Jarryd Lyons and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison

Jarryd Lyons and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

At the same age both had about the same opportunities. Both had **** all opportunities at that time really.

Jarryd Lyons and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison

Jarryd Lyons and Ben Keays AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com