What is insane about that team is if you drift it back another 5 years it would have both father and son in it
Team of Quarter Century (2000 - 2024)
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Benny graham?? Interesting call
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
I'd have him in the 22.
What's your 22?
Also, general question: isn't the quarter century 2001-2025, not 2000-2024? Are we assessing the output only from that time period, hence excluding 90s work?
Ben Graham 2001-2004 certainly didn't do enough to make this team. If Max Holmes has a stellar season, I'd take Holmes 2021-2025 over Graham 2001-2004 (I know it's an apples and oranges comparison, but just trying to go on best 22 alone). If we measure whole careers, Holmes will also easily go past Graham unless something goes seriously wrong.
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Collingwood played a carbon rod in ruck in that prelim. I reckon I could have broken even.
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I don’t think sando gets anywhere near the team. I can think of at least half a dozen off the top of my head that make it before him. There are probably more than that.
I think people often discount how good he was simply because he played in a pretty ordinary team.
Playing in a dominant side is like playing on easy mode. It’s no coincidence that everyone’s performance levels all rose together in 2007; when you have midfield dominance like we did, attacking and defending come so much easier.
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That may be true. Or it may be true that dominant sides are dominant because they are stacked with awesome players.
None of that changes how good sando was. Very consistent, absolutely dependable, great leadership but limited in pure ability. He was passed on by two clubs for a reason.
Bingo… this idea that good teams make average players look better is off the mark.. good teams produce good results. I recall it used as an insult all the time when we would be dominant early on 07-11
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It was used as a way to diminish Selwood’s performance in his rookie year 2007. Ie. “he has an easy role because he is playing in such a good side”.
Counter - the team was crap before he joined it and became awesome as soon as he joined it. Maybe that was not a coincidence.
Graham shouldn't be anywhere near the best team. lol, he was one of the reasons why our club always capitulated come finals time. Easily intimated and when the club needed him most, he walked. I can understand $1,000,000 was a godfather offer not many could ever refuse, but it was what it was.
Even Matty Egan in only 59 matches produced a better career as a pure defender than what Graham did in the 130 odd games down back.
Even Matty Egan in only 59 matches produced a better career as a pure defender than what Graham did in the 130 odd games down back.
Completely disagree with all of that. Graham turned his back on a punting career time and again until it was basically his last chance. He was a superb fullback, and made a reasonable fist of CHF despite not being a natural at it.
"Always capitulated come finals time" - Graham's peak was from 1997 till 2004, roughly. From that era, we were only a half-decent finals contender in 1997, when he played decently well, and 2004, when he was very good for all bar kicking at goal. Throughout most of Graham's career, we didn't make finals, and on the two occasions that we did, we scraped it in (and one of them he didn't even play).
He did win a B&F, playing largely in defence. He was hardly outshone by Matt Egan.
I do not blame Ben Graham for leaving at age 31. The guy had an offer to set himself up for life, I wouldn't have said no either.
You are entitled to your opinion but Graham winning the B&F in 1999 is similar to when Pickering won it in 1997.
He was a very good footballer. A champion? Nope.
Graham severely lowered his colours in the finals. Often conceding bags of goals. Granted he was young, but still a seasoned player by the late 90's.
Even when he went to CHF, his best season (2004) averaging 1.9 goals and he could only produce 1 goal from three finals.
Except that's not true? How many can you name?
Arguably the only final where he had a bag kicked on him was the '95 GF, where he was still very young, and faced an avalanche of football coming in. Even then, Sticks kicked five, not, say, 7 or 8.
Even with the overblown criticism discounted, how would Graham be in our best 6 or so KPD/Fs this century (and eligible for a quarter century best 25)?
Scarlett, Taylor, Harley, Lonergan for KPDs.
Cameron, Hawkins for KPFs.
Ottens and King the obvious ruck options. Ottens can go forward so that kind of cancels out Graham's swingman POD.
Blicavs as the utility.
Mooney's 21st century output exceeds Graham's as well.
He would be contending with Egan for our 11th best big man this century.
Edit: I did make this post initially based on best 22. I see now you only had Graham as emergency, so not quite as surprising. But it can still only be based on his 2001-2004 anyway. He shouldn't be eligible as he had more of his career in the 20th century.
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Having Jimmy Bartel and Joel Corey on the bench, whilst also having Blicavs starting on a wing and Miers starting on a HFF is making my brain hurt.
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Still waiting for that list of times that he had a bag kicked on him in finals.
Well, he did have five seasons in the new millennium.
He was definitely a better footballer at both ends than Lonergan, who was excellent defensively but offered little with ball in hand.
He was probably a slightly better footballer than Harley, but not as good a leader.
Honestly, we didn’t really see the best of him because we were so short on key forwards that we had to shoehorn him into CHF. In a better side, he would have been CHB his whole career and seriously excelled at it.
Millennium started at the conclusion of the 2000th year.
Graham gets 2001-2004. Some good football in there, but Harley, Mooney, Lonergan had better 2001 onwards contributions. You would have to be a really, really special footballer to make it on 4 seasons.
I even accept on that basis that Holmes having an All Australian 2025 might only just scrape him in (it could be disputed anyway). Stengle with another elite year would have done enough.
If we include Graham's whole career we would have to consider anyone who played '93 onwards. That goes against the concept of player of the quarter century IMO.
Lonergan was a better 1v1 defender by a huge margin. Mooney was more reliable as a utility, including an AA year up forward. Blicavs is obviously ahead and you can only squeeze so many talls into a team. Egan's 3 years probably eclipse Graham's 4 years this century based on his elite 2007.
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My mistake - apologies
He is clearly not in the best team of this quarter century.
He would struggle to make the second team.
obviously we're not going to see eye to eye about Graham's quality or otherwise - and fair enough - but I should point out that the thread title is 2000-24, and all of the New Millennium fanfare was definitely at the end of 1999, not the end of 2000. Maybe you are technically correct about when to count a millennium, but it's not the popular understanding of it.
